Wendy "the Necromancer"

[Pop Guy]

Some time ago I published a topic where I compared the catapults of Winona, BERNIE! and Abigail, as well as suggesting several changes in the statistics and behavior of Wendy's dead twin.

Many have appreciated, others have expressed interest in a more varied gameplay for the last of the Carter, which don't merely change Abigail only.
I have read several proposals: the possibility for Wendy of resurrecting other players to the cost of sanity, or Abigail take "possession" Wendy for giving her a temporary boost in statistics.
They are all nice ideas, but which I think are not suited to the character: for me Wendy is an summoner, and therefore her gameplay should revolve around generating "hordes" of otherworldly creatures, ready to carry out her orders.
Obviously, starting from this basic vision, the ideas proposed by the community that I liked the most were those related to Wendy's ability to "resurrect" skeletons and ghosts from graves, besides Abigail, to be used as followers.
However, no one has expressed this concept rigorously: how should this type of evocation work? Should Wendy do some kind of ritual near the tombs? Should he insert a telltale heart in the skeletons in order to "resurrect" them? Could you perhaps assemble skeletons of various creatures (dogs, pigs, beefalos) with bone fragments? In short, the potential is unlimited.
Imagine Wendy riding a skeletal beefalo followed by an army of undead :'D
I correct myself then: Wendy shouldn't be a mere summoner. But a real necromancer.
What do you think?
I would really like the community to make themselves heard about Wendy and try to come up with valid, well-constructed and interesting ideas.

Edit:

Surely Wendy is not a powerful dark wizard.
But at the mechanical level, she will have to have a role, right? And she should have a role that has something unique, right?
Now, with Willow, she is no longer the only one who can count on a "protective companion" and, with Winona's catapults, Wendy is no longer the best to build monster farms.
So we have to ask ourselves: what is Wendy's role now?
In the game they just introduced Wortox, a mass curator, and Wormwood, a mass food producer. In the game then there are already so many characters aimed at collecting resources: Woodie (in theory), Maxwell, Webber, Wickerbottom... in short, Wendy I don't think he should join this large group, which is already saturated.
I proposed of my vision of Abigail "tank", devoted to defensive combat, which would be well accompanied with the most "offensive" combat of Wolfgang, Wigfrid and Wx-78. But a significant slice of the forum community seems to want something more varied than just a more leathery and versatile Abigail.
Then the only role that seems "useful" to Wendy remains that of the summoner, not yet fully explored in the game.
Currently, the only characters that evoke allies (besides Wendy) are Willow and Maxwell.
BERNIE! it's a gregarious more focused on producing nightmares and being used in an offensive way.
Maxwell instead evokes many allies, but only focused on collecting resources (the shadow fighters are very fragile).
In short, Wendy would be, from the point of view of the game machine, a still unpublished summoner: she could summon different types of creatures (like Maxwell), but use them for offensive purposes and compensate for his weaker attack (like Willow). This would maintain her link to death, unspeakable knowledge and her morbid aura, while giving she a fairly unique role within the pantheon of DST characters.

[FreyaMaluk]

hmmm... tbh I don't think that Wendy is so deep into dark arts to even been able to summon stuff....

I don't think she even consciously and with full purpose summons anything...  she just doesn't wanna let go to her dead sister and that emotional connection is what maintains Abi in the Constant... not magic she can use at her will...

that image doesn't really represent her as a summoner either btw... just she as the generic reviver IMO..

----

with that said... what I think Wendy is gonna get is pretty much buffed Abi with more hp... better aggro control (engage/disengage commands), stay here command...

I don't think that the necromancer theme suits her cuz she is not a mage... very curious young lady interested in tales of death... yes... but not a powerful dark mage

[Osbalop]

In my opinion the best suggestion I have heard for Wendy is more control of Abigail and being able to make her haunt stuff, that would be very cool and make her stand out from Willow.and BERNIE!

[Mooagain]

since player ghosts can do useful things via haunting, Wendy should be able to make Abby do that as well. It would be nice to use bees to make a nightmare fuel farm.

[Pop Guy]

3 hours ago, FreyaMaluk said:

hmmm... tbh I don't think that Wendy is so deep into dark arts to even been able to summon stuff....

I don't think she even consciously and with full purpose summons anything...  she just doesn't wanna let go to her dead sister and that emotional connection is what maintains Abi in the Constant... not magic she can use at her will...

that image doesn't really represent her as a summoner either btw... just she as the generic reviver IMO..

----

with that said... what I think Wendy is gonna get is pretty much buffed Abi with more hp... better aggro control (engage/disengage commands), stay here command...

I don't think that the necromancer theme suits her cuz she is not a mage... very curious young lady interested in tales of death... yes... but not a powerful dark mage

Surely Wendy is not a powerful dark wizard.
But at the mechanical level, she will have to have a role, right? And she should have a role that has something unique, right?
Now, with Willow, she is no longer the only one who can count on a "protective companion" and, with Winona's catapults, Wendy is no longer the best to build monster farms.
So we have to ask ourselves: what is Wendy's role now?
In the game they just introduced Wortox, a mass curator, and Wormwood, a mass food producer. In the game then there are already so many characters aimed at collecting resources: Woodie (in theory), Maxwell, Webber, Wickerbottom... in short, Wendy I don't think he should join this large group, which is already saturated.
I proposed of my vision of Abigail "tank", devoted to defensive combat, which would be well accompanied with the most "offensive" combat of Wolfgang, Wigfrid and Wx-78. But a significant slice of the forum community seems to want something more varied than just a more leathery and versatile Abigail.
Then the only role that seems "useful" to Wendy remains that of the summoner, not yet fully explored in the game.
Currently, the only characters that evoke allies (besides Wendy) are Willow and Maxwell.
BERNIE! it's a gregarious more focused on producing nightmares and being used in an offensive way.
Maxwell instead evokes many allies, but only focused on collecting resources (the shadow fighters are very fragile).
In short, Wendy would be, from the point of view of the game machine, a still unpublished summoner: she could summon different types of creatures (like Maxwell), but use them for offensive purposes and compensate for his weaker attack (like Willow). This would maintain her link to death, unspeakable knowledge and her morbid aura, while giving she a fairly unique role within the pantheon of DST characters.

I would like to add that developers are the first not to give characters fully coherent powers: Wilson is a scientist, but he can't do anything about science.
Willow is an arsonist, but does not base his gameplay on the flames, which remain a secondary advantage.
Wickerbottom is a librarian... but in reality, through his books, he accesses dark powers that have nothing to do with being a librarian.
Wortox uses souls to heal... a beautiful but completely random power, never Krampus shown to possess it.
And I could go on.
In short, if Klei is the first to don't worry about being fully consistent with the characters' abilities, why ask us for it?
It is enough for a character's abilities to be vaguely inherent in his characterization. And a necromancer seems sufficiently close to Wendy's figure

1 hour ago, Mooagain said:

since player ghosts can do useful things via haunting, Wendy should be able to make Abby do that as well. It would be nice to use bees to make a nightmare fuel farm.

I have often read this idea around. It's pretty, but it would have a very marginal utility. It is the classic power that serves to "make numbers", but that does not really change the gameplay of the character or its function. In short, if it wants to be a nice addition, a little easter egg, it's also good for me, but it certainly can't be the cornerstone of Wendy's reworking :'D

[Troppok]

The current pros and cons of wendy.

Pro. Abigail, Comfort in dark.

Con. 75% dmg

 

If we want to infuse more interesting gameplay into her kit I think you need to be able have more interesting interactions with Abigail's flower. I posted about it being an equipped item that let's her haunt objects and enemies, but perhaps it could be used as a catalyst to summon more ghosts or control enemies.

[FreyaMaluk]

20 minutes ago, Pop Guy said:

Surely Wendy is not a powerful dark wizard.
But at the mechanical level, she will have to have a role, right? And she should have a role that has something unique, right?
Now, with Willow, she is no longer the only one who can count on a "protective companion" and, with Winona's catapults, Wendy is no longer the best to build monster farms.
So we have to ask ourselves: what is Wendy's role now?
In the game they just introduced Wortox, a mass curator, and Wormwood, a mass food producer. In the game then there are already so many characters aimed at collecting resources: Woodie (in theory), Maxwell, Webber, Wickerbottom... in short, Wendy I don't think he should join this large group, which is already saturated.
I proposed of my vision of Abigail "tank", devoted to defensive combat, which would be well accompanied with the most "offensive" combat of Wolfgang, Wigfrid and Wx-78. But a significant slice of the forum community seems to want something more varied than just a more leathery and versatile Abigail.
Then the only role that seems "useful" to Wendy remains that of the summoner, not yet fully explored in the game.
Currently, the only characters that evoke allies (besides Wendy) are Willow and Maxwell.
BERNIE! it's a gregarious more focused on producing nightmares and being used in an offensive way.
Maxwell instead evokes many allies, but only focused on collecting resources (the shadow fighters are very fragile).
In short, Wendy would be, from the point of view of the game machine, a still unpublished summoner: she could summon different types of creatures (like Maxwell), but use them for offensive purposes and compensate for his weaker attack (like Willow). This would maintain her link to death, unspeakable knowledge and her morbid aura, while giving she a fairly unique role within the pantheon of DST characters.

I would like to add that developers are the first not to give characters fully coherent powers: Wilson is a scientist, but he can't do anything about science.
Willow is an arsonist, but does not base his gameplay on the flames, which remain a secondary advantage.
Wickerbottom is a librarian... but in reality, through his books, he accesses dark powers that have nothing to do with being a librarian.
Wortox uses souls to heal... a beautiful but completely random power, never Krampus shown to possess it.
And I could go on.
In short, if Klei is the first to don't worry about being fully consistent with the characters' abilities, why ask us for it?
It is enough for a character's abilities to be vaguely inherent in his characterization. And a necromancer seems sufficiently close to Wendy's figure

I have often read this idea around. It's pretty, but it would have a very marginal utility. It is the classic power that serves to "make numbers", but that does not really change the gameplay of the character or its function. In short, if it wants to be a nice addition, a little easter egg, it's also good for me, but it certainly can't be the cornerstone of Wendy's reworking :'D

I think that your initial idea is a bit flawed. Wendy' s role hasn't changed and it does have to change to be relevant. Bernie and Abi are different and both have different mechanics. Mostly AoE dmg and I believe Abi is gonna get a pretty nice boost in hp.. Even a bit more dmg... Also more engaging control which is pretty much what people want. 

Just because Bernie exists doesn't mean Abi isn't anymore what she is: a powerful AoE companion. 

I mean the idea of a necromancer is interesting but it makes no sense for her character, and that fact above all should be the idea behind the changes: enhancing the character based on what the character is.

IMO a necromancer addition doesn't make sense for her character. We will see what Klei is finally gonna do about her. 

[Prajdo]

I'm personally not seeing her as a necromancer at all and would probably start to dislike her if she would become one but I know for sure that she really needs an update asap (right after Woodie) because she really lack a role compared to others.

[Troppok]

10 minutes ago, Prajdo said:

I'm personally not seeing her as a necromancer at all and would probably start to dislike her if she would become one but I know for sure that she really needs an update asap (right after Woodie) because she really lack a role compared to others.

Yeah it's cool when a character provides their own unique team play aspect. I'd give her the ability to create graves, and easily resseruct through a sanity fee, but if she had unique summons like how Maxwell drops his book and it becomes a crafting tab, her flower could serve a similar purpose of a crafting tab for morbid and creepy things that dont really bother her.

[Kirby8971]

I would like to see an ability where wendy fuses with Abigail. So for that amount of time wendy gets 1.25x attack power(hers and Abigail's combined) and she also radiates light for the night. The drawback can be that when the timer runs out abagail returns to her flower. They should also just put Abigail to ready position on full moons so she can rise with all the other ghosts from the graveyard.

[pedregales]

I think I saw a similar idea somewhere else...

IMO, it is not far fetched in the slightest because:

Spoiler

• She is technically already a necromancer, even if she can only summon and control one ghost (although I think Abigail was never alive/real, but that is a theory for another post, for now we will assume she really is the spirit of a dead girl).
• She summons Abigail through a sacrifice. You can't go much more occult than that without going into nasty/gross stuff (lunar monsters for example), of course, she doesn't seem to be able to control when to summon her (but that cooldown is probably there for balance, otherwise you will have a bunch of butterflies/rabbits in your inventory, murder them, and summon Abi immediately, which in DST is possible by crafting LOTS of Abi flowers and scatter them on the ground: if Abi dies, you kill a butterfly and another Abi takes her place).
• In the Forge she can only use darts and staff type weapons, so she can do the role of a mage.
• She seems to be at peace with death for the most part.
• In the Gorge, it is heavily implied she has moved on from Abi's death (one of the vignettes have her with Abi's flower dispersing it's petals in the wind, plus she starts with 1 rot which could be Abi's flower). So, if the Gorge is canon, and the implications are true: Abigail is no more. Of course, they will probably keep Abi for gameplay purposes, but they left an open door for completely re-purposing Wendy.

But adding more onto her necromancy features is a bit tricky:

• Making skeleton variants of many animals/monsters will be difficult and time-consuming. You could take lunar monsters (which for the moment we only have 2), but then you will need moon magic to make your summonings; and is kind of hard to make sense as of why Wendy would be capable to control them or use moon magic (not impossible though).
• Ghosts are a bit easier to pass on since she already controls Abigail and ghosts are not completely tied to moon magic (outside of them being spawned from any grave on a full moon, they do not truly need the moon). It would honestly be interesting to give this enemies some kind of use outside of just haunting during a full moon. We still need an item/reason for why she can control them or why they help her.

In both cases you could tie Wendy to moon magic (well, in the first she would have to be tied to moon magic), which sounds at the very least different to any other character, how this could play out is hard to guess, specially since moon magic is way too new. Problem is we have not given her a "specific role" as you want. With this she is kind of a more offensive Maxwell, but not really by that much; and she would keep her old mechanics. There is one thing that I can think of that could be added to make her very slightly more "unique": she can haunt stuff with the help of Abigail/"ghosts friends" and some sanity (like forcing mushrooms to change color, change flowers into dark flowers, or panic hounds and transform them into other variants of hounds, etc.); not too big of a deal, but would really make her stand out as a character that can get the benefits of being a ghost without having to be a ghost (or having to die).