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Winona's Rework is Lackluster and Bad, Leaves Concerns for Future Reworks and Characters (Including DLC Characters)


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i had an idea last night before I slept on Winos balance and general enjoyment

cons

20-100% added hunger loss this replaces her original annoying -5 hunger per craft

Speedcraft only works when above like half leaving you to keep your stats up removing the previous micro managing with her stupid hunger before

catapults don't naturally attack (i will explain this in pros)

possible weaker melee hits or added damage taken to make her more relent on the catapults making for a support gunner type playstyle while you have a team member distract

Pros

catapults fire at an excelled rate but only if she gets on it when mounted clicking the ground will launch the catapult this would give her a reason to exist outside her catapults because she is needed for them to work this will also make her more fun being a dps machine and aiming shots properly to be most effective like a tower defense game but you are the tower pelting the monsters below you

her previous buffs will still effect her as the tape and free Charlie hits

this would both give her more a reason to live and makes when she is living less bad also it would limit the amounts of catapults to one per Winona but they fire faster and you can control the shots making it better for base defense outside cheesing bosses

and the natural hunger loss will remove her anti fun hunger lost on craft

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5 hours ago, Majestix said:

Here is my math: 5 hunger saves 1/2 second, so one meaty stew saves 15 seconds. When I play with a good team (or by myself), there is always plenty of meat in the fridge, and sticking it in the pot takes less than 2 seconds, plus a few seconds for Winona to harvest it. So about 10 second gained, or over 30% compared to some other character doing that crafting. When you work on a large base, you will be able to take advantage of this at regular intervals, so I disagree with those who claim that Winona will only be a character that people switch into, and then immediately back out of.

Winona crafts slowly at 50 hunger, so meaty stews are only worth +100.  To spend a full day crafting requires 49 meaty stews.  There's also the complication that meat dishes have a longer chewing animation.  So now we're down to 4.5 - 5 seconds gained per stew eaten, or 22.5% - 25% faster crafting (versus having someone else do it and not bother making the stews), and it only costs 49 meaty stews per day.  Since meat can be given to the Pig King for gold, that's equivalent to 147 gold to craft 25% faster for one day.

It still doesn't look like a good deal to me.

If the point of the hunger loss is to add extra work that cuts out of the time gained by crafting quickly, it'd be less hassle just to directly nerf the perk to 33% or 25% faster crafting and skip the hunger loss altogether.

46 minutes ago, 4 Da LOLs said:

i had an idea last night before I slept on Winos balance and general enjoyment

cons

20-100% added hunger loss this replaces her original annoying -5 hunger per craft

Speedcraft only works when above like half leaving you to keep your stats up removing the previous micro managing with her stupid hunger before

I had a similar idea: +300% hunger loss for 10 seconds after crafting things.

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7 minutes ago, TemporaryMan said:

I had a similar idea: +300% hunger loss for 10 seconds after crafting things.

so like going on crafting sprees to maximize effectiveness?

i could get down with that what do you think of the manned turret idea too? 

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IMO the rework is pretty cool, it only needs a bit of adjustment:

  • Increase mats for catapults. Kinda cheap at the moment.
  • Allow lights to turn on in the proximity of any ally and player.
  • make spotlights are bit smaller, kinda bulky
  • Give gens a turn on/off switch.
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We should definitely have an on/off switch for this machinery. Lanterns have one in addition to very easily stockpiled fuel, and the total light provided by Spotlights isn't all that different; they're pretty much bad Lanterns right now.

Crafting things is currently something discouraged by gameplay mechanic when playing the factory worker. Regardless of whether the hunger cost is manageable. That pro/con needs to be fixed.

...I find it weird that the catapults are fully automatic, aiming and all.

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14 minutes ago, lifetheuniverse said:

..I find it weird that the catapults are fully automatic, aiming and all.

Imagine if they aren't automatic, but manually operated. Also imagine you need to aim and load ammo. With 41-or-so dmg per hit. Now tell me if you honestly would use them in such condition and for what? Certainly not for boss fights. Then for? Spiders? With a Hambat one just stun-locks those pesky lil creeps and that's that.

Thus your "re-rework" idea for catapults is pretty much how one goes from King-to-Beggar in an instant, very-useful-to-totally-useless. Manual-aiming-manual-loading-and-all catapults brought straight on the 1-Man-Band or Tail'o'3Cats-whip level - not even contextual, but purely for lulz (intentionally written like that for my Dutch buddies out there *wink*) and memes.

 

Again seeing such concepts being thrown around forums about re-balances is why I concur with Devs being silent and ignoring them.

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3 minutes ago, x0VERSUS1y said:

Imagine if they aren't automatic, but manually operated. Also imagine you need to aim and load ammo. With 41-or-so dmg per hit. Now tell me if you honestly would use them in such condition and for what? Certainly not for boss fights. Then for? Spiders? With a Hambat one just stun-locks those pesky lil creeps and that's that.

Thus your "re-rework" idea for catapults is pretty much how one goes from King-to-Beggar in an instant, very-useful-to-totally-useless. Manual-aiming-manual-loading-and-all catapults brought straight on the 1-Man-Band or Tail'o'3Cats-whip level - not even contextual, but purely for lulz (intentionally written like that for my Dutch buddies out there *wink*) and memes.

 

Again seeing such concepts being thrown around forums about re-balances is why I concur with Devs being silent and ignoring them.

Not necessarily. If you can load, say a stack of rocks, then fire with one or so second delay while operating it, and each hit deals a ton of damage, then in a cooperative scenario, the catapult could be a huge boon. Though the idea is to have it run on generators, simulating automation of sorts. Needing fuel for both the generator to power the catapult and needing fuel seems a bit excessive.

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47 minutes ago, lifetheuniverse said:

...I find it weird that the catapults are fully automatic, aiming and all.

14 minutes ago, x0VERSUS1y said:

Imagine if they aren't automatic, but manually operated. Also imagine you need to aim and load ammo. With 41-or-so dmg per hit. Now tell me if you honestly would use them in such condition and for what? Certainly not for boss fights. Then for? Spiders? With a Hambat one just stun-locks those pesky lil creeps and that's that.

Thus your "re-rework" idea for catapults is pretty much how one goes from King-to-Beggar in an instant, very-useful-to-totally-useless. Manual-aiming-manual-loading-and-all catapults brought straight on the 1-Man-Band or Tail'o'3Cats-whip level - not even contextual, but purely for lulz (intentionally written like that for my Dutch buddies out there *wink*) and memes.

 

Again seeing such concepts being thrown around forums about re-balances is why I concur with Devs being silent and ignoring them.

...I said one sentence and apparently I'm demanding that they manual fire, require ammo, and stay at the same damage level as they are currently all at the same time.

Huh. Guess that's just how it is. I've been got. Shoot my ashes out of a cannon and have a party at my funeral, guys.

 

No, I'm just throwing in my two cents. The whole rework could use tweaking. Me not specifying is because there are already suggestions worth looking at. I felt that I didn't need to specify. Seems increasingly commonplace that people on this forum are ready with their fangs out for the next person that dares to speak an opinion, though.

 

...expansion because people assume things:

12 minutes ago, lifetheuniverse said:

While Winona and the catapults could definitely use some work, I don't think that the power level of the Catapults by itself is a bad thing. More accessibility to more content, and more legit ways to eliminate tedium? Heck yes.
I think think the power will also make less experienced players more confident in their abilities and willing to try new things...if Winona gets some changes that make her gameplay more appealing.

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Balance changes have been made and for the most part are positive for her (her spotlight range is a big plus in my book). I still maintain my position on longevity and the catapults, but it seems they're here to stay, so you will not hear anymore from me on them.

@ImDaMisterLCan you lock my thread for me please? I still want this thread up, but no more further comments. Thanks.

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