[Game Update] - 309354

[ToiDiaeRaRIsuOy]

48 minutes ago, DefectiveNu said:

The only way I can see the drywall thing being QoL is if they manage to make tiles, drywall, and tempshifts able to replace each other in one construction order.  Even then though doors will be annoying to replace.

Unfortunately it seems they are set on this change...

Doors will be impossible to replace with leaking out some gas. As soon as one drywall is done, the door should be deconstructed, at which point the second tile will leak out gas.

Not even mentioning the technical challenge this brings and all the bugs along.

[Lilalaunekuh]

1 hour ago, ToiDiaeRaRIsuOy said:

Doors will be impossible to replace with leaking out some gas. As soon as one drywall is done, the door should be deconstructed, at which point the second tile will leak out gas.

If we are not talking about chlorine (and even that just in case of a map without a chlorine vent), where is the problem if we loss some gas ?

(Sure it´s the opposite of QoL, but the double layering drywall + tile was not really intuitive either. We just learned to deal with it.)

[ToiDiaeRaRIsuOy]

25 minutes ago, Lilalaunekuh said:

If we are not talking about chlorine (and even that just in case of a map without a chlorine vent), where is the problem if we loss some gas ?

(Sure it´s the opposite of QoL, but the double layering drywall + tile was not really intuitive either. We just learned to deal with it.)

In my case it would be oxygen. Slightly more of an inconvenience, but ok: still just an inconvenience. It's something I can life with, but what it's more difficult to swallow is: why. Why did the change had to go this way. We talked about there's perhaps an exploit with more mass being able to absorb more heat. I think it was you who proposed a much better alternative by reducing the mass of the drywall tile. I am all for stopping exploits, but most people do not use that exploit and those people are also having to do a lot more work now. As it stands now, you'll manually have to deconstruct and construct when you want to adapt your setup of tiles and drywall. Now I assume this will change in the future where tile and drywall can just replace eachother. Doors too hopefully, and the issue will become minimized towards loosing gasses when replacing doors. I can life with that.

 

But was it really necessary? It's possibly even a much bigger inconvenience towards the developers because having tiles replace other tiles is not straightforward (just look at the bugs that came with replacing ladders). New art had to be made for the doors. They had to code that open doors would not loose gasses anymore. They had to code that pneumatic doors let gasses through but not let it suck out into the vacuum. The had to do the same for mesh/airflow tiles,... . So yeah, again: why.

Edited February 15, 2019 by ToiDiaeRaRIsuOy

[Lilalaunekuh]

18 minutes ago, ToiDiaeRaRIsuOy said:

Now I assume this will change in the future where tile and drywall can just replace eachother.

A developer already said they would look into that

Spoiler

(https://forums.kleientertainment.com/klei-bug-tracker/oni/cannot-build-walls-doors-on-top-of-a-drywall-r17110/)

 

18 minutes ago, ToiDiaeRaRIsuOy said:

But was it really necessary?

My point is mostly from the view of a "new" player:

Why should there be double layering ? Does the game need that complexity? Does it offer something to our gameplay ?

=> My opinion would be to just change the way the replacement of tiles works and I am happy

 

PS: It´s just a variable that was change to give the tile a new property ^^

Edited February 15, 2019 by Lilalaunekuh

[PhailRaptor]

13 hours ago, tzionut said:

In my case i used a lock of visco gel. For all the modification of my builds. The only limitation is the temperature (for evaporation or solidify it) and liquid touching the visco gel lock. 

But a Visco Gel "airlock" is not a Door for the purpose of creating Rooms.  It creates a thermal and fluid seal, but the game will not create, for example, a Plumbed Bathroom for your AstroDupe to use when they return from a mission with a full bladder.  You're forced to build a firepole from the top of your Rocket Silo down below the Surface level of the asteroid in order to make the bathroom into a Plumbed Bathroom for the Morale benefits.

That's why the Pneumatic Door was given "backwall" properties like both Airlocks.  At least, that's my theory on the matter.

[ToiDiaeRaRIsuOy]

19 minutes ago, Lilalaunekuh said:

My point is mostly from the view of a "new" player:

A new player would of course have less gripes with it. New players are always much more adaptable than us concerning gameplay mechanics. I do think if you put the choice of either having the convenience of double layering, so a new player has more ease in experimenting and constantling adapting his or her designs, or having to pay a (small) penalty for each change to a setup he or she is not immediately happy with and wants to improve, I think they'd also choose for convenience. Question remains of course: is double layering intuitive? I can't really answer that as a more experienced player stuck in his ways. My guess is if that if you are allowing double layering, it should be reflected in the tool tip which would help said new player understanding the capabilities of drywall.

25 minutes ago, Lilalaunekuh said:

PS: It´s just a variable that was change to give the tile a new property ^^

That was the original change, but that brought issues with doors and airflow/mesh tiles not being compatible anymore with drywall in space designs. That one change was very easy, but did not account for other gameplay mechanics. Changing those other mechanics was more difficult, and will be more difficult as again ladders proved surprisingly challenging in regards of inter replaceable. This has been a very time consuming experience for the developers and will consume time in the future. I agree with @Cairath when he says that time could have been spend for more pressing matters, like for instance the broken steam turbine.

[DefectiveNu]

On 2/15/2019 at 3:12 PM, ToiDiaeRaRIsuOy said:

Doors will be impossible to replace with leaking out some gas. As soon as one drywall is done, the door should be deconstructed, at which point the second tile will leak out gas.

Not even mentioning the technical challenge this brings and all the bugs along.

even if they don't allow doors to be replaced in the same way, at least it will be a lot better than now. 

[Nitroturtle]

The problem I, and I imagine many others have, with the drywall change is that it doesn't actually change what you can do, it just makes it a huge pain in the butt.  Sure I can still restructure buildings in space and if I'm careful, I can avoid losing too much gas.  I could even pump the gas out temporarily and not lose any at all.  So you can still accomplish the same thing, but it ends up requiring significantly more time and effort for the same result.  That seems like the opposite of QoL to me.  Was the stacking tile/drywall thing something anyone actually used to their advantage?  I don't recall seeing a single build posted that leveraged this old mechanic.