"Simple" Condensing Steam Turbine

[wachunga]

I've been tinkering with turbines that condense the output steam for a long time and here is my latest iteration. It is relatively simple and easy to build, requires no space materials, and is power positive. The downside is that it's fairly large and requires a lot of steam, but you can't have everything.

Previously, I used a large and complicated system of pipes to move heat around. It allowed for much lower steam pressures, but I think simpler is better (and probably less laggy). I built and am using this in my current survival game. It really is no big deal.

The large number of bridges (automation, power, gas, liquid, and conveyor) are acting as 1x3 shift plates. None of them are particularly good at the task, but together they get the job done. A 1x3 diamond shift plate would be very nice (if any devs are reading, please please please). About 30,000 kg of hot water (and tens of cycles) to prime the system. Once everything reaches operating temperatures, the turbine produces about 450W of surplus power. The bottom 2 aquatuners run intermittently and consume roughly 1300W. The top 4 aquatuners represent the heat source. For testing purposes, I used 2 with water and 2 with super coolant as that adds up to what the turbine needs to run constantly. In my survival game, I am using water or polluted water and added another set of aquatuners for 8 total.

CTurbine w ATs.sav

[yoakenashi]

1 hour ago, wachunga said:

Once everything reaches operating temperatures, the turbine produces about 450W of surplus power. The bottom 2 aquatuners run intermittently and consume roughly 1300W. The top 4 aquatuners represent the heat source.

4 aquatuners is 4*1200 = 4800 W, plus the 2 intermittent aquatuners at 1300 is a grand total of 6100 W, the turbine generates 2000 W. How are you getting 450 W surplus?

[wachunga]

I'm not including those 4 because they could be swapped out with any source of heat. Only the bottom 2 aquatuners and liquid pump are required to clear the output steam by condensing it.

You could use radiant liquid pipes, or gas pipes, or even conveyors to dump heat into the turbine. Steel aquatuners are the most convenient but not necessary.

If it's not clear, this isn't a method meant to produce lots of power. Turbines are for deleting heat. This is a way to make the turbine work without door pumps or exploits. The extra power is just a bonus.

[Miravlix]

Wouldn't simple be just keeping the top of the turbine in another gas?

 

This solve all pressure issues.

 

My Heat Deletion Turbine Build is 1 empty tile above the Turbine, 1 empty tile on the side, 2 tiles below the turbine, fill the room with hydrogen until it overpressures the gas vent, then add heat and water until the steam pressure is over 20K, The Hydrogen compresses into the 1 tile above the turbine resulting in perfect pressure.

[mathmanican]

9 hours ago, wachunga said:

A 1x3 diamond shift plate would be very nice (if any devs are reading, please please please).

+1 - I would love it as well. 

I love the build. Much simpler than the original one (link below for those interested).

Spoiler

I added this new topic to the "Steam Turbine: Everything you need to know" page,  right above the link to your older post. 

 

[Lawnmower Man]

The steam takes such a long path that I don't understand the purpose of condensing it.  I thought the main benefit of condensing is that it's much easier to move around liquid than "free gas".  In your setup, the steam just takes a tiny U-turn through the liquid phase.  All I can guess is that the vacuum created by condensation is creating all of your steam pumping force.  Is that the case?

Also, did you consider trying normal tempshift + metal/glass, just more widely spaced?  I know you lose temperature gradient resolution, but it seems like it would be...more elegant?

Overall, I like what you did, and I relearned a few of the lessons the hard way, so I appreciate what this build represents.

[wachunga]

Yep, the condensation vacuum is what maintains the pressure differential needed for the turbine to work. At equilibrium, the high pressure just above the turbine is pushing 5 kg/s down either side towards the vacuum. Inside, the high pressure at the liquid vent is pushing 10 kg/s up towards the lower pressure just below the turbine. This creates a perfect counter flow that also plays nice with the rising heat mechanic ONI has. The problem is you need high pressures to naturally move that much steam.

Door pumps and conflicting gas have been documented numerous times and aren't very interesting or challenging to me. Figuring out the best way to run the turbine without either has been a fun project. I was forced to learn some things along the way and I'm better off for it.

The problem with temperature shift plates is their size. They transfer heat much better but the overall size of the heat exchanger still ends up bigger. I'm not thrilled with the inelegance of all the bridges, but until we get a 1x3 shift plate we're stuck with them. Way back when before shift plates existed, using bridges for this purpose was common. So it's a fun little throwback also.

 

Edit:

Anyone new to this idea can read the linked thread for some background. The TLDR is that you use a heat exchanger to pull as much heat out of the output steam as is practical. You then use an aquatuner to provide the little bit of extra cooling to condense the now cold steam into a liquid. The liquid is sent to the other side of the heat exchanger to reclaim all the heat it lost. The better the heat exchanger, the less the aquatuners need to run, and the more power positive the build becomes.

[Craigjw]

It troubles me that you are using 6 aquatuners.  This is 7.2kw of power and is by no means easy to maintain, even if the steam engine is running at 100%.

A net loss of 5.2kw.  What's the purpose of this build again?

[Christophlette]

On 17/01/2019 at 11:24 AM, wachunga said:

I'm not including those 4 because they could be swapped out with any source of heat. Only the bottom 2 aquatuners and liquid pump are required to clear the output steam by condensing it.

 

24 minutes ago, Craigjw said:

It troubles me that you are using 6 aquatuners.  This is 7.2kw of power and is by no means easy to maintain, even if the steam engine is running at 100%.

A net loss of 5.2kw.  What's the purpose of this build again?

That's why. Wachunga said the 4 upper aquatuners are meant as a replacement for a heat source. They are not meant to stay and can be replaced with radiant pipes or conveyor rails to transport the heat to just under the turbine.

The only thing I see could be a problem is that to bring the heat where the aquatuners are, you'd need pipes or conveyor rails. Those would exchange heat elsewhere because the 4 aquatuners are in the middle of the build :
- You can't use conveyor rails as they need tiles to not exchange heat.

- To use pipes, you'd need a very good insulation. And ceramic even insulated is not enough to do that. It would exchange a lot of heat to the condensing part of the build.

To summarize, it would have been better to make the build with an already usable heat source as this one is not valid at all and it's complicated to change the heat source in this build.

All in all, it's still nice to have a build that can delete heat without exploit even if it's using a lot of power. I don't know for you but I'm rarely in need of power.

[wachunga]

Quote

What's the purpose of this build again?

On 1/17/2019 at 5:24 AM, wachunga said:

If it's not clear, this isn't a method meant to produce lots of power. Turbines are for deleting heat. This is a way to make the turbine work without door pumps or exploits. The extra power is just a bonus.

If there isn't enough heat to run the turbine, then the build doesn't run and doesn't cost anything. Say you don't want to delete heat with fixed temp outputs, send it to the turbine instead. Sure the aquatuners cost power, but I'm always drowning in power outside the first 50 cycles or so. In my current game I'm looking for ways to use the aquatuners and I still have surplus power. It's not an issue.

You could also dump heat into the top of the build by replacing the top tiles with diamond windows and shift plates. It's somewhat counter productive as you want the output steam to be as cold as possible before it hits the heat exchanger, but I suspect it would work well enough. Try it out with the save I provided. I also put in switches to easily control the aquatuners, turn some off to see what happens. Play with the save, that's why it's there.

If nothing else think of it as a research and development project. I acquired knowledge I didn't previously have. I have put that knowledge to good use elsewhere. Plus it's just plain neato watching it run.

Here's my current survival game. You can check the reports and see that turbine only runs like 25% of the time because there isn't enough heat to run it full time.

 

Edit:

Since some people lack imagination and reading comprehension, here's a version that dumps heat in from the top. It's less efficient for the reason I stated above, but you can stick it under a rocket or something.

[goatt]

I ran the save file and the turbine was consuming power. Has it reached to a equilibrium up to the point of the save file?