How many seconds in one cycle?

[GoHereDoThis]

This can get a bit confusing for me when trying to work out if "do I have enough??"  Some items are given as usage per second or output per second while others are given as usage per cycle.  For now, I'm just trying to work out how many algae terrariums are needed per dupe and then use that to calculate how long my algae supplies are going to last.

It seems like dupes need 81.7g/s O2 and give out 1766.7 mg/s CO2 while a terrarium gives off 40g/s O2 and -333g/s CO2, so two terrariums is just under what one dupe needs per day for O2 but I would need a little over 5 terrariums to scrub all the CO2.  Is that correct?

But then the terrarium needs 30g/s algae and 300g/s water, so how much is that in algae or water per cycle?  How many seconds in one cycle?

[Cairath]

It's 600s per cycle.

[Lawnmower Man]

Noob tip: Terrarriums are a trap.  My first two play-throughs, I used them because of better algae utilization, and couldn't figure out why I was constantly in crisis mode.  Then, I accepted the costs of Diffusers, and was amazed at how much my dupes were getting done.  Some people use Terrarriums strictly for CO2 control, but CO2, like everything else in the game, is a precious resource which should not be wasted (I mean, the game has enough buffers in it to allow you to waste quite a bit without killing your colony, but almost all resources are useful for something at some point).  I would instead dig downwards to always give your CO2 a storage location to settle until you access the Oil biome.  And yeah, spreadsheets are very handy for making sure you have enough O2, H2O, NatGas, etc.

[PhailRaptor]

13 minutes ago, Lawnmower Man said:

Noob tip: Terrarriums are a trap.

Have you tried them again since the rework?  Because they are a lot better now than they used to be.  And are you accounting for the P-O2 produced by the bottles of P-H2O?  It's basically free additional O2.

[beowulf2010]

Terrariums are awesome now. I actually chose not to use them this base to really see how much of a difference they make. At cycle 150 I've had to actually look for algae to dig up, build a SPOM for exosuits and have around 80 tons less clay than usual. 

Look up Neotuck's Terrarium posts and give it a try. I think you'll find that they are amazing. 

[KittenIsAGeek]

Yeah, in my recent builds, I've used terrariums from the beginning and they work incredibly well.  They are by far the most resource efficient method of producing oxygen in the game.   They do need some dupe interaction, but not nearly as much as they did in the past.  If set up right, you can go 10 to 20 cycles at a time with zero dupe involvement.  

 

[Sasza22]

Terrariums are just work inefficient. Unless you drip the water on them it will take a lot of dupe time to "operate" them. Also i noticed that one bottle emptier isn`t enough to take care of the waste water and you often need 3 to keep the bottles swept. Unless of course you want them to offgas for extra oxygen production.

[Neotuck]

30 minutes ago, Sasza22 said:

Terrariums are just work efficient. Unless you drip the water on them it will take a lot of dupe time to "operate" them. Also i noticed that one bottle emptier isn`t enough to take care of the waste water and you often need 3 to keep the bottles swept. Unless of course you want them to offgas for extra oxygen production.

That's pretty much the idea behind my terrarium build, get the most out of the PW bottles to reduce the use of terrariums.  The less they are used the less dupe time is used and less algae and water is needed

It's like a diesel engine, takes a little time to "warm up", but once enough PW bottles drop it lasts a long time with very little dupe interaction.

The O2 output is more effective then most SPOM designs I've seen

Sand becomes the only bottleneck resource for the deodorizers which isn't really a problem

1 hour ago, Lawnmower Man said:

Noob tip: Terrarriums are a trap.

I respectfully disagree  

[KittenIsAGeek]

30 minutes ago, Sasza22 said:

Terrariums are just work efficient. Unless you drip the water on them it will take a lot of dupe time to "operate" them. Also i noticed that one bottle emptier isn`t enough to take care of the waste water and you often need 3 to keep the bottles swept. Unless of course you want them to offgas for extra oxygen production.

Using @Neotuck's example above, here are some numbers:

1. When terrariums are producing oxygen, they're using 30g/s of algae and 300g/s water to produce 44g/s oxygen and 290.33g/s polluted water.  That's 1.47g/s oxygen per g of algae and 0.968g/s polluted water per clean water.
2. When polluted bottles are producing oxygen, its 1g/s of O2 per 1.1g/s polluted water (after deoderizers).
3. An Oxygen Diffuser uses 550g/s of algae to produce 500g/s oxygen.  That's 0.91g/s oxygen per g of algae.
4. An Electrolyzer produces 888g/s of oxygen per 1000g/s water.  That's 0.888g/s O2 per 1g/s water.

So, a terrarium produces 0.56g/s more O2 per algae than an oxygen diffuser and (if my math is right) 0.880g/s O2 per 1g/s water.  It uses almost no power (lights for the extra 4/gs O2), has very low dupe interaction, and produces all the clay you need for ceramics.  The O2 from terrariums is produced at the temperature of the terrarium, and from the polluted water bottles at 30c, meaning that a couple of wheezewarts is all you'll need to keep it cool.  It doesn't produce hydrogen -- but it does produce clay, making it the better option for early to mid-game.  Besides, early in the game, a SPOM would be burning almost all your hydrogen anyway just to power the electrolyzer and pumps.  

Here are some screenshots of my current system.

Spoiler

As a side note: The automation was added as researched.  Basically it opens the doors over 2000g/s pressure to disable the terrariums.  Before the automation, I just did it manually when I saw my O2 pressures getting too high.  Also, filtration medium (sand, regolith) is one of the most prolific materials in the game.  I've never come close to running out.  Those 5 storage containers in my screenshots? All sand that is only from the starting biome.

 

[Lawnmower Man]

2 hours ago, Neotuck said:

[...]

I respectfully disagree  

This is clearly not something you can build in the first 20-30 cycles of the game.

[Neotuck]

1 minute ago, Lawnmower Man said:

This is clearly not something you can build in the first 20-30 cycles of the game.

and?

[Lawnmower Man]

Just now, Neotuck said:

and?

Someone who is asking how many seconds are in a cycle is clearly starting the game, so showing a build that requires mechanical airlocks and automation doesn't demonstrate the early-game superiority of terrariums.

[Neotuck]

Just now, Lawnmower Man said:

Someone who is asking how many seconds are in a cycle is clearly starting the game, so showing a build that requires mechanical airlocks and automation doesn't demonstrate the early-game superiority of terrariums.

You are making a lot of assumptions, last I heard GoHereDoThis has reached cycle 97 and that was 5 hours ago so I'm sure he's passed the 100 cycle mark by now

And I have proven before that my build can be done by cycle 50, if you rush the research it can be done by 30

 

[Lawnmower Man]

1 minute ago, Neotuck said:

You are making a lot of assumptions, last I heard GoHereDoThis has reached cycle 97 and that was 5 hours ago so I'm sure he's passed the 100 cycle mark by now

And I have proven before that my build can be done by cycle 50, if you rush the research it can be done by 30

 

Again, what is possible theoretically and what is possible for someone struggling with O2 by cycle 100 are literally worlds apart.  Pretty sure the OP isn't rushing anything, or we wouldn't be debating the merits of terrariums vs. diffusers.

[Neotuck]

[beowulf2010]

19 minutes ago, Lawnmower Man said:

Someone who is asking how many seconds are in a cycle is clearly starting the game, so showing a build that requires mechanical airlocks and automation doesn't demonstrate the early-game superiority of terrariums.

1) You're the one that went off topic first with your unsolicited (and inaccurate) advice that terrariums are not good. 

2) The basic research needed to start using terrariums is easily accessible as airlock doors are researched at the same time as the deodorizers that is good to rush to for your bathrooms. The automation can wait as you can have dupes manually open the doors to turn off the terrariums if you're ever in danger of popped eardrums. 

3) If your seed has a decent supply of oxylite, you will never need to even build an oxygen diffuser to tide you over for a few cycles. 

4) 12 terrariums and their polluted water offgassing can keep an 8 dupe base pressurized with a pump inside the base running full time supplying 8 exosuit dicks with oxygen. 

[Neotuck]

7 minutes ago, Lawnmower Man said:

Again, what is possible theoretically and what is possible for someone struggling with O2 by cycle 100 are literally worlds apart.  Pretty sure the OP isn't rushing anything, or we wouldn't be debating the merits of terrariums vs. diffusers.

Perhaps you should ask @GoHereDoThis first before you make that judgment call

you know what they say about people who make assumptions...

[The Plum Gate]

@Neotuck, does your setup use lighting of any kind ( is the math available for that ) or was that without lighting in your algae garden?

edit: I should probably ping @KittenIsAGeek on the math stuff.

[Neotuck]

2 minutes ago, The Plum Gate said:

@Neotuck, does you setup use lighting of any kind ( is the math available for that ) or was that without lighting in your algae garden?

all 16 terrariums are within range of the 2 ceiling lights

[The Plum Gate]

7 minutes ago, Neotuck said:

all 16 terrariums are within range of the 2 ceiling lights

How did I miss that?

I must have been looking at @KittenIsAGeek's setup and math. I do lIke both.

[KittenIsAGeek]

17 hours ago, The Plum Gate said:

How did I miss that?

I must have been looking at @KittenIsAGeek's setup and math. I do lIke both.

My setup was without a light, but the math was using @Neotuck's lights.

[GoHereDoThis]

Thanks for the help guys!  What is SPOM?  I keep coming across that term.

As the discussion on terrariums in this thread is now becoming a duplicate of my other thread, I'll post more questions on that other thread to keep things easier for me to follow

 

On 16/01/2019 at 2:24 AM, Lawnmower Man said:

Someone who is asking how many seconds are in a cycle is clearly starting the game, so showing a build that requires mechanical airlocks and automation doesn't demonstrate the early-game superiority of terrariums.

Using terrariums does not necessarily mean I also need to use airlocks and automation, right?  The small amount of terrariums is easy enough for my dupes to maintain, plus by the time I have enough PWater to clean and pump into the terrarium area, I'd have researched automation by that point too.

Why do you mention "early-game superiority of terrariums"?  In what way is it an oxygen diffuser better?  IMO, using more algae and using electricity is a big downfall of the diffuser.  The only real advantage is that it doesn't use water like the terrarium, but once toilets are built or once I dig into other biomes with PWater, this doesn't become much of an issue either.

On 16/01/2019 at 2:38 AM, Lawnmower Man said:

Again, what is possible theoretically and what is possible for someone struggling with O2 by cycle 100 are literally worlds apart.  Pretty sure the OP isn't rushing anything, or we wouldn't be debating the merits of terrariums vs. diffusers.

I wasn't really struggling with O2 generation, but more like just optimizing my build process and knowing when I would need to be making more terrariums.  I do use diffusers in some areas of my base, but mostly its in walled-off areas that I couldn't be bothered to make terrarium sections.

 

[Neotuck]

21 minutes ago, GoHereDoThis said:

Thanks for the help guys!  What is SPOM?  I keep coming across that term.

Self Powered Oxygen Machine

There are many designs but the general idea is to use an electrolyzer and filter the H2 to a generator and keep it energy efficient enough so it doesn't require outside power sources to run

[GoHereDoThis]

Ah, the one with an electrolyzer, a hydrogen generator, and a couple of batteries?  IIRC, I had it feeding off my bathroom water supply, but I couldn't generate enough water to keep it running 24/7.  Then again, I didn't really calculate if I needed it running 24/7.  I do remember I had it connected to my suit docks.

[KittenIsAGeek]

57 minutes ago, GoHereDoThis said:

Ah, the one with an electrolyzer, a hydrogen generator, and a couple of batteries?  IIRC, I had it feeding off my bathroom water supply, but I couldn't generate enough water to keep it running 24/7.  Then again, I didn't really calculate if I needed it running 24/7.  I do remember I had it connected to my suit docks.

Your bathroom supply won't feed an electrolyzer non-stop unless you have a very large number of dupes.  Chances are, the electrolyzer won't run continually anyway because it also has pressure limitations.  You can get close without exploits, and there are some builds out that that show how to do so.  Under optimum conditions (i.e. running continually) the electrolyzer will use 1000g/s of water and provide enough oxygen for 8.8 dupes.  If you have a single dupe with diver's lungs, then you can manage 9 off a single electrolyzer.  Generally when I'm using electrolyzers for dupe oxygen, I set them up in pairs to provide 1000g/s of oxygen -- enough for 10 dupes.