Spaghetti Monster SPOM(s). Now with moar SPOM.

[ruhrohraggy]

Alright, after some refining, I present the beginner friendly version of the Spaghetti monster...It's about 1/2 as cumbersome as Mommy s'getti, but you lose the ability to sort out unwanted gasses, and if you pump anything other than oxygen and hydrogen, you will damage the Hydrogen Generator.

If for some reason you have an unbridled hatred for Anti-Entropy Thermo-nullifiers, then use 4x wheezeworts instead. Or whatever floats your boat for cooling.

I've also updated my original post, and included a save file with the 2 builds setup so far.

Mini-S'getti : (Spaghetti, no meatballs)

Piping : (Hassan is in awe over how much simpler it got...)

 

Spoiler

 

Automation : (Hassan is bored with this overlay)

 

Spoiler

 

Overall View : (Hassan didn't recover from the boring automation overlay)

 

Spoiler

 

[jfc]

2 hours ago, ruhrohraggy said:

Alright, after some refining, I present the beginner friendly version of the Spaghetti monster...It's about 1/2 as cumbersome as Mommy s'getti, but you lose the ability to sort out unwanted gasses, and if you pump anything other than oxygen and hydrogen, you will damage the Hydrogen Generator.

If for some reason you have an unbridled hatred for Anti-Entropy Thermo-nullifiers, then use 4x wheezeworts instead. Or whatever floats your boat for cooling.

I've also updated my original post, and included a save file with the 2 builds setup so far.

Mini-S'getti : (Spaghetti, no meatballs)

Piping : (Hassan is in awe over how much simpler it got...)

 

  Hide contents

 

Automation : (Hassan is bored with this overlay)

 

  Hide contents

 

Overall View : (Hassan didn't recover from the boring automation overlay)

 

  Hide contents

 

Was looking for a recent SPOM build to do next to an AETN, exactly what i will implement

[Sigma Cypher]

I am proud to present Spaghetti Monster Mod 2!  Or SPAG2 if you prefer (Self-powered Awesome Gas-thingy)

I took out the part that removes unwanted gas (which we will never need if we pump out the electrolyzer chamber first, right?) and compacted it a bit.  It's a bit less spaghetti like but still uses your core idea of filtering out O2 first and recirculating excess so you can combine O2 packets in one line without slowing down the pumps.

[karyuendan08]

is it a competition?

My automation to this setup makes me have to use hydrogen to power other buildings to use it, since i dont pump oxygen all the time

[Sigma Cypher]

Oh I didn't intend it to sound like a competition.  I somehow missed mini-s'getti when I posted mine.  It's the same idea.  Maybe more symmetrical  but at the cost of an extra gas element detector -- and no cooling.

[ruhrohraggy]

2 hours ago, Sigma Cypher said:

I am proud to present Spaghetti Monster Mod 2!  Or SPAG2 if you prefer (Self-powered Awesome Gas-thingy)

I took out the part that removes unwanted gas (which we will never need if we pump out the electrolyzer chamber first, right?) and compacted it a bit.  It's a bit less spaghetti like but still uses your core idea of filtering out O2 first and recirculating excess so you can combine O2 packets in one line without slowing down the pumps.

Seems a bit simpler, and I like the symmetry...I didn't take it as "competition" and I was happy to thoroughly ignore the antagonism from the other guy. I don't even understand what he was getting at with his post...

This is no competition. This is a forum where we discuss and share our ideas.

If you happen to improve on my design, or have one that works better but is totally different, I'd be happy to see it.

I am thrilled if something I've started sparks someone elses creativity. And I love seeing new designs and testing them. And on a side-note... If you think I'm critical of other peoples designs...that's because I'm typically 10x more critical of my own...

In fact, something you @Sigma Cypher had said, is what sparked this creation from your "not another spom" thread. You had mentioned SPOMS backing up, and I wanted to see if I could solve that problem...because it pissed me off too. So here we are.

And yeah, I already have a working version of the mini-s'getti that does away with the gas ejector, but it's not a big deal, I like your idea too. The gas ejector was really just an added bonus to the original re-circulation idea I had.

But it meant that it will self-clear on startup. So it basically pumps out it's own room while it runs, which is kinda cool. I actually did end up going in and working on the spaghetti once, and that gas ejector was nice to have...I even left the thing running while dupes did work on it, and it just kept on truckin'.

Having built and tested your setup...You will need to re-do the pump arrangement.

 I've set it up exactly as you've shown, and it clearly runs outta hydrogen => power, within a few cycles of dupe assisted start-up.

To further investigate, I ran a straight up hydrogen deletion test that Angpaur suggested I use on my own system, I fed it 100kg of water, and let it out put to a vacuum. Only 5.5kg hydrogen was output. The total should have been 11.2kg. So you're at ~50% deletion.

Spoiler

However, if you rotate the build 90 degrees, it works fine...and you get 9.1 kg of hydrogen back. Which...Is still some loss, but enough where it becomes self powered again.

 

Spoiler

 

Try playing with it yourself...

I found this resource very useful in improving my pump placement with regards to what I wanted.

https://imgur.com/a/HvW7LmQ

[LiveYourDreams]

On 12/4/2018 at 9:07 AM, ruhrohraggy said:

**The room above the pumps and electrolyzer was used to prime the main room with H2. It is not required beyond that...You could maybe stick your Hydrogen generator in there or something...

I dont see where that room is connected to the main room. Did you just use the console to put the hydrogen in there?

[ruhrohraggy]

21 minutes ago, strawberrygirl said:

I dont see where that room is connected to the main room. Did you just use the console to put the hydrogen in there?

Yes, but that was in developer mode, and I was testing several trains of thought with regards to priming the AETN room with hydrogen.

The simplest method I could think of... is to collect hydrogen in a space above, and then pump it next door once you've sucked out all the air. There are so many ways to skin this cat, I didn't bother doing a step by step. People can figure that stuff out, and modify it how they want. Nothing is really set in stone, except for the pump / electrolyzer room, and the piping layout.

I had done all this towards the early morning hours...I had already wracked my brain on this thing all night...So I was a bit tired and didn't really care.

I suppose another way to do it, (which would be less hassle but take longer) would be to vent your surplus hydrogen right under the room, and let it passively fill up over time.

So, basically what I'm saying, by not giving a step-by step there...is prime the AETN room however you want. I don't even think it's even necessary to fill it with hydrogen tbh.

[oosyrag]

All this talk of spaghetti made me hungry, and inspired me to get cooking too.

Save File: Laboratory.sav

Screenshots: 

Spoiler

Updated automation screenshot: Each device is connected to it's own clock sensor for precision control.

10x10, now with more spaghetti packed inside! I wanted to use mechanical filters, just because. Although mine seems to have gotten contaminated by some pee, and possibly some other inconsequential organic material. But that's okay, they don't seem to cause any problems!

I think I hit most of the features of your original. Am I missing anything?

Each pump's output has it's hydrogen filtered first, combined, and then the oxygen is filtered out twice. Anything left after that is either recycled back into the oxygen filter loop or ejected out via a gas valve controlled by a little manual switch that dupes can run in and bonk. This can be replaced by a clock sensor if you want instant control. The pumps and electrolyzer are also connected to a clock sensor so you can shut them off on demand for whatever reason. There is room for atmo sensors if you want, but I didn't see the point in this setup.

The hydrogen line has it's own feedback buffer loop, with the gas reservoir above optional. This extra can be sent to another hydrogen generator, aetn, connected to even more storage, or used for anything else. If the hydrogen line gets completely backed up, it overflows outside to a high pressure vent as a last resort. This is for hydrogen only, so it can be routed to an appropriate place.

The system will back up and shut itself down if oxygen output is blocked as long as the gas ejector valve is closed. If the the valve is open, backed up oxygen will get dumped out of it too (only if normal oxygen output is backed up all the way though). Normal operation should leave the valve closed and will work fine with nominal amounts of contaminants floating around in there. Just don't let them build up by store carbon dioxide and polluted oxygen sources within the construct like I did. Even if contaminants did stuff up the system, all it would take it to flip the release valve switch to get it running again.

Radiator room is straightforward and can easily be replaced by an aetn, as always. I left a vent in there in case I ever want to service the room and want to top off the hydrogen.

Build notes, if anyone is interested:

Spoiler

Despite how tangled it is, construction is actually pretty straightforward since the inside is relatively open and accessible. A ladder comes up from below, replacing (to be replaced by) the metal tiles. From that, basically everything can be reached, planted, and built. Remember to set all the gas valves to 1g!

Step two is to disable all the wheezeworts to get a nice even hydrogen atmosphere. Open the door, deconstruct the blocks below the two lower wheezeworts, and start pumping in hydrogen from the left (the bridge, accessible from outside, allows for a clean disconnect). The opened tiles help facilitate other gasses being pushed out as well. Once the inside is evenly full of hydrogen only, the ladder can be deconstructed and replaced with tiles, and then the bottom sealed up (don't forget to set the airlock back to auto). 

 

At this point you can pretty much turn everything on! The trickiest part is priming the mechanical filters. The simplest way is to turn everything on except for one pump. There is actually extra space just left of the electrolyzer for two more clock sensors, so you can hook each pump and the electrolyzer up to its own individual clock sensor for instant on/off control for each individual part.  The hydrogen filter should get primed first since there is only hydrogen inside at first, and once that is primed as long as only one pump runs no hydrogen should get past it. Eventually the oxygen from the electrolyzer (or open the mehcanical airlock service door) will get past the first filter and prime the second one. Then everything is set.

Don't worry if the lower oxygen filter gets contaminated - it is accessible from the service door so just deconstruct it and try again! If you forgot something up top, the battery can be deconstructed to make room for a ladder to reach everything else in the room. No problem with a lot of dupes working in there while it is running either - carbon dioxide is highly unlikely to get to the pumps up top, and it's pretty hard for hydrogen to get out the door. Encourage your dupes to use the lavatory and not pee in the spom.

I didn't bother in the example save file, but when I build this in game I'll probably have access to and use the following materials: Ceramic for insulated tiles, igneous for insulated pipes, wolframite for radiant pipes, tungsten for metal tiles, and gold amalgam/gold for everything else metallic. The materials honestly don't matter too much, the system is pretty robust and will probably work regardless of materials. The high pressure vents are completely optional if plastic isn't available, just let the system back up or send the gasses somewhere useful. I like to arrange my base so I have a major exosuit checkpoint right underneath, that gets priority power and oxygen right from the the spom (uses up extra hydrogen and oxygen). 

 

[LiveYourDreams]

12 minutes ago, ruhrohraggy said:

I suppose another way to do it, (which would be less hassle but take longer) would be to vent your surplus hydrogen right under the room, and let it passively fill up over time.

Yea thats how I usually do these spom thingies. Ok, thanks for your answer. Ill figure it out. I think basically what got me is I had a hard time just figuring out what is going on with the design to begin with! LOL.   I'll read more on it  later if the answers are already here in this thread. Thanks again.

 

[ruhrohraggy]

23 minutes ago, oosyrag said:

All this talk of spaghetti made me hungry, and inspired me to get cooking too.

 

Nice, I like it. Any chance for a save file, so that I might tinker? I like the ultra-compactness of it. I'm curious to see how it would hold up to my malicious prodding, if you don't mind, of course.

19 minutes ago, strawberrygirl said:

Yea thats how I usually do these spom thingies. Ok, thanks for your answer. Ill figure it out. I think basically what got me is I had a hard time just figuring out what is going on with the design to begin with! LOL.   I'll read more on it  later if the answers are already here in this thread. Thanks again.

 

Yeah, might be a bit rough to wrap your head around. I know it was a frustrating learning experience just getting to this point in the build / designing it from scratch with a set of conditions. I do not know all of the super-secret ONI mechanics...So I'm still in trial and error mode.

Should use the save file I included and check it out! It's alot easier to understand when you can see it and click on things ^^.

And again, if you don't like it, no obligation to use it :). I used the SPOM Mk. II for awhile...But prepping that thing, and wasting a bunch of tungsten was such a bother...Really hindered my mid-game.

Having designed this sucker...I can probably build it from memory now.

[oosyrag]

Edited to include save! 

I'm working on seeing if I can get backed up oxygen looped back in at a higher priority than the relief valve even if the relief valve is open so that it can stop the pumps/electrolyzer even when the valve is open. But then contaminants would get looped back too... Might need a second oxygen filter somewhere in there. Probably not a good idea in the end though since if the oxygen keeps looping it will get too cold and damage pipes eventually. Hmmm....

[Nitroturtle]

Not a SPOM, but my gas sorting and storage facility.  Thought you spaghetti aficionados might appreciate it. 

Spoiler

 

[oosyrag]

52 minutes ago, Nitroturtle said:

Not a SPOM, but my gas sorting and storage facility.  Thought you spaghetti aficionados might appreciate it. 

Inspiration for my next dish :]

[ruhrohraggy]

6 hours ago, Nitroturtle said:

Not a SPOM, but my gas sorting and storage facility.  Thought you spaghetti aficionados might appreciate it.

 

I can actually understand that spaghetti now, I see it unraveling before me, revealing it's many-noodled mysteries.

Also, @oosyrag's build is pretty dope. I 100% like that concept.

[LiveYourDreams]

NEVERMIND: I found another poster's diagram for it. Thanks in advance for your help.

 

Ok is every single gas pipe element sensor set to h2 in the original build? can't find the overlay pic that was there before the post was edited. I already opened the sav file but that is for the mini version.

[fishoutofwater]

@ruhrohraggy so I am done testing electrolyzer and two pumps placement, I found out couple placement to generate efficient H and O2 for this spaghetti SPOM.

assuming "x" is blank space, "p" is pump, "e" is electrolyzer

1. this one provide 99% conversion of 100kg of water, 99% up time, result in 12-14kg of H, 85-87kg of O2

xxx

ppeepp

ppeepp

 

2. left only one blank space above electorlyzer, this one provide 99% conversion of 100kg of water, maybe <90% up time, result in 15-18kg of H, 81-84kg of O2, even though this one produce more H per 100kg water but I'm not sure it produce more in terms of time compare to the first one.

oox

ppeepp

ppeepp

 

 

 

[ruhrohraggy]

@fishoutofwater Thanks for the info. Might be worthwhile to get a pump configuration thread going, if there's not one up already.

For 2. Time vs. efficiency. Some people might want to save water, so that might end up being better for them.

-update- I tried out configuration 1. It works very well, thank you.

[Ethanzeyogai]

I'll try them out. Thx so much!

[LeftyRighty]

On 12/16/2018 at 3:56 PM, ruhrohraggy said:

Might be worthwhile to get a pump configuration thread going,

 well there is one now

[fishoutofwater]

hello again @ruhrohraggy, here I want to share my beginner spaghetti version, so instead of piping back excess H and O2 to electrolyzer room I build a gas tank for O2 (i know this is not a good idea, so this build is a little out of your original idea, but It might never be filled if have 9 or more dupes), and exploited gas storage for H, my goal is to know how many dupes one electrolyzer can provide, so with this build I tested it can sustain 11 dupes (maybe12) and 12 atmo suit docks, although if dupes busy using docks it can't fill out the 12 docks to full, 1 will be empty sometimes but still useable.

FYI my base is a small enclosed base only consist of 3 bedroom, 1 great hall, and 1 washroom, and the atmo suit docks is outside base, so idling dupe have to hold their breath and then only go inside base when they want to continue to live.

I wonder if I could improve it.

Anyway thanks for the idea sir.

 

after many fail attempt, finally I have grasp your true spaghetti idea sir, it is not about piping back extra gas, it is about gas flow priority using pipe bridge and the third gas shutoff, CMIIW.

so here is my final build, one main spom, and one backup spom, now i don't worry about backing up gas because of consumption < production.

[ruhrohraggy]

@fishoutofwater Almost always room for improvement :D. Funny, looks like a rough place to live...Poor dupers.

And this is good. I was hoping to spark some ideas on non-conventional gas sorting using shut-offs, and start learning how to make better use of them to save power. If you make make a bunch of small savings in a base, they should add up to a large net savings...

Someone might think..."Why bother saving 240 watts, it's not that much?". My answer is, if you can save 240 watt there, and 600 watts somewhere else, eventually it starts adding up into big savings...

 I am always in favor of taking an idea and adapting it to suit your needs. There is no reason to run a layout exactly as designed if it's not meeting your needs. I'd usually still ask as to why you're running it a certain way due to "xyz" drawbacks or something...but that's only for educational purposes... I don't actually care all that much how people decide to manage their base. :P.

[ChickenMadness]

Gonna try building this now thanks <3

Going to attach it to my fully automated dense puft ranch and create a massive automation monstrosity lol. I have some ideas to make the hardcore version smaller.

[DMSO]

On 12/19/2018 at 9:22 AM, ruhrohraggy said:

@fishoutofwater Almost always room for improvement :D. Funny, looks like a rough place to live...Poor dupers.

And this is good. I was hoping to spark some ideas on non-conventional gas sorting using shut-offs, and start learning how to make better use of them to save power. If you make make a bunch of small savings in a base, they should add up to a large net savings...

Someone might think..."Why bother saving 240 watts, it's not that much?". My answer is, if you can save 240 watt there, and 600 watts somewhere else, eventually it starts adding up into big savings...

 I am always in favor of taking an idea and adapting it to suit your needs. There is no reason to run a layout exactly as designed if it's not meeting your needs. I'd usually still ask as to why you're running it a certain way due to "xyz" drawbacks or something...but that's only for educational purposes... I don't actually care all that much how people decide to manage their base. :P.

Thanks for the idea of using gas automation instead of filters! I was toying with the idea but I couldn't quickly work out the details in a base so I gave up. But now I have a system running!

Question though: for your mini-s'ghetti or I guess just in general - have you tried running a joint pipe prior to hydrogen separation? Just curious if you happen to have throughput data since you already tested efficiency. Cause with immediate joint pipe you can likely cut gas detection down to 2, or even 1 if you vacuum the room and lock it.

[ruhrohraggy]

On 1/3/2019 at 1:06 PM, DMSO said:

Thanks for the idea of using gas automation instead of filters! I was toying with the idea but I couldn't quickly work out the details in a base so I gave up. But now I have a system running!

Question though: for your mini-s'ghetti or I guess just in general - have you tried running a joint pipe prior to hydrogen separation? Just curious if you happen to have throughput data since you already tested efficiency. Cause with immediate joint pipe you can likely cut gas detection down to 2, or even 1 if you vacuum the room and lock it.

Possibly. You'd have to give an example of what you mean by a joint pipe. Does this mean the gases are being combined prior to separation? I'm not sure it's worth the thought investment, since gas sorting is free.

Packet slow-down is occurring when multiple gases are in queue to combine. Keeping the pipes separate until after filtering just makes it a simpler problem to solve. I'm not sure how you'd control random packet combination without over-complicating the system.

Don't wanna wrack the brain *too* hard.