Spaghetti Monster SPOM(s). Now with moar SPOM.

[ruhrohraggy]

So, another neat build I lost sleep over.

I also want to point out oosyrag's version of this, it's about 3/4 the way down page 3. It's super cool, informative, you should check it out, because you might learn something new. I won't spoil it, but I'm already thinking of other ways to abuse this newfound knowledge :P.

As for my own build, There happen to be 3 versions of this. There's a :

Beginner friendly version : Mini-S'getti : (Spaghetti, no meatballs)

A simplified version for those starting out with SPOMs or those who might want to try a safer SPOM. Also for those who don't care about the unwanted-gas-ejection feature, cba to build all of that piping... or simply don't understand wtf is going on with the full version of it.

This version requires the following research : Plumbing / Improved Ventilation / HVAC / Generic Sensors / Advanced Power Regulation, which shouldn't be too hard to obtain by the time you would start thinking about building it.

I would suggest using Wolframite for the radiant piping. You should have some of this by the time you hunt down and secure an AETN.

Overlay

Piping :

Spoiler

Automation :

Spoiler

Standard View :

Spoiler

Lazy Veteran : Coming soon™ (If i'm not feeling lazy)

 

The ultra-realistic-super-hardcore-all-things-considered version

Spaghetti Monster : (the best one...)

Overlay

Ventilation :

Spoiler

Automation :

Spoiler

I got sick of the standard SPOMS backing up and blowing up if I wasn't baby sitting them...

So these bad-boys are the result. Power efficient, oxygen efficient, self-powered, and cooled.

They can also handle being backed up from the o2 side while using gas-shutoffs (without wrecking everything), and are setup so they cannot backup from the h2 side, so that oxygen production can continue if you ran outta hydrogen storage and/or aren't consuming enough of it.

***The room above the pumps and electrolyzer was used to prime the main room with H2. It is not required beyond that...You could maybe stick your Hydrogen generator in there or something...

***The room the pumps are in does not have to be cooled if you use gold amalgam for the electrolyzer / pumps, and insulated piping. It can be fully insulated if you want.

**Fill the piping room with hydrogen if you want better heat exchange, and use either 4x wheezeworts or an AETN to cool your o2.

*Use another means of power generation for the water pump if you want to eek out more hydrogen. If you choose to build this away from your water source, or want to build it next to an AETN that's away from a water source...the pump will most likely be powered by something else anyway. However, it will still power the water pump without dying...

So from here... instead of rambling on about numbers and math, and whatever...Here's a video of big mama S'getti working with some, hopefully, entertaining subtitles...With me, gently trying to break it.

If you're interested in building one for yourself and don't quite understand the videos, overlay pictures or save file (Spaghetti Monsters.sav), hit me up, I'm more than happy to explain it, it's not as bad as it looks.

After some more observation, I've noticed that by routing the hydrogen back into the pump room, there is some deletion happening with the re-cycled surplus. I'm almost certain this is the reason the hydrogen is refusing to back up. So...If you are not ok with the potential exploitation of faulty game mechanics...Do not use this build. Though, I did not build this SPOM with that in mind...it just happens to be an unfortunate side-effect.

Enjoy!

(And yes, I said enjoy your slime lung when it was clearly set to food poisoning...don't be that guy...)

 

[Yoma_Nosme]

Would you mind providing pics of the overlays?

[ruhrohraggy]

6 minutes ago, Yoma_Nosme said:

Would you mind providing pics of the overlays?

Not at all, done and updated.

[Angpaur]

Nice work!

Just one remark - 2 pumps setups have tendency to delete hydrogen. You should check if your is affected too. You can pump 100kg of water and store all produced gases in a reservoir. After all water is processed check if you have ~11,2kg of Hydrogen.

[Nitroturtle]

Very nice setup, looks like it can withstand a lot.

Personally, I've stopped building these self-contained units and instead have been putting the electrolizers directly in my base.  I put them at the top, then a level below them I put some wheezeworts and pumps to help circulate the oxygen and for my exosuits.  I build the top of the base so the highest point is in the center, then put a pump with a gaseous element sensor so when enough hydrogen gathers it gets pumped to storage.  The exosuit pumps are hooked to automation to only run when needed.  This setup definitely isn't the most efficient, but I like it because it's very easy to build and scale up, and it also greatly reduced the "spaghetti" piping required to provide my base and exosuits with oxygen.

Here's what it looks like late game, but early on I started with only 2 electrolizers and 2 pumps.

Spoiler

 

[ruhrohraggy]

Just now, Angpaur said:

Nice work!

Just one remark - 2 pumps setups have tendency to delete hydrogen. You should check if your is affected too. You can pump 100kg of water and store all produced gases in a reservoir. After all water is processed check if you have ~11,2kg of Hydrogen.

Will do. It's probably the reason it won't back up once the cycle is in a closed hydrogen loop....But I ran it for a really really long time (would have made for a boring video) and noticed the hydrogen packets that were circulating still getting larger and larger...I'll give it a try and get back to ya.

 

[Angpaur]

Just remember to first vacuum the electrolyzer chamber - otherwise results will be wrong

[ruhrohraggy]

15 minutes ago, Nitroturtle said:

Very nice setup, looks like it can withstand a lot.

Personally, I've stopped building these self-contained units and instead have been putting the electrolizers directly in my base.  I put them at the top, then a level below them I put some wheezeworts and pumps to help circulate the oxygen and for my exosuits.  I build the top of the base so the highest point is in the center, then put a pump with a gaseous element sensor so when enough hydrogen gathers it gets pumped to storage.  The exosuit pumps are hooked to automation to only run when needed.  This setup definitely isn't the most efficient, but I like it because it's very easy to build and scale up, and it also greatly reduced the "spaghetti" piping required to provide my base and exosuits with oxygen.

Here's what it looks like late game, but early on I started with only 2 electrolizers and 2 pumps.

Thanks!

I also understand. Building them can be a pain, and often, they end up being more trouble than they're worth, or they end up slowing down the flow of a game.

I started out oni using a passive electrolyzer setup like that, and I like it too. But then I have to handle the systems that support it directly, instead of it being it's own unit. And often, an easy cooling or water solution might be a long ways from center base. But there are always ways of dealing with it.

I envision the best application of the Spaghetti Monster, is to be a one time, mid-game investment. There's no need to build any more really, and you could use other means for further oxygen production scaling.

  S'getti will do it's job by providing a single stable source of oxygen for 8 dupes, as long as you feed it water, and it won't be a huge pain in the butt to troubleshoot or maintain. The scale-ability and complexity / initial time investment of it is probably it's worst selling point for sure. Efficiency, Reliability and hands-free-ness would be the highest.

Usually my mid-game to late-game transition lasts for a little bit while I clear space and churn out steel and plastic. I also tend to stick with 8 dupes for awhile...so I think this suits my own personal strategy well. I understand this might not be for everyone. But it's now out there for those who like SPOM's but are also sick of how finicky they can be.

Lastly, I think this would be terrible for any industrial application, say for lox or lh2. There's much better ways to mass output hydrogen and oxygen.

[Angpaur]

Another thing I would like to mention is that maybe you should reconsider your cooling system. There is not point in cooling hydrogen - all heat will be destroyed in the generator. Also there is no point to cool down oxygen you send to atmosuits. If you use insulated pipes then heat will not affect surroundings. Stored O2 in suit dock doesn't seem to heat up envoitment neither.

So the best way is to cool down only O2, which you intended to vent into your base for breathing.

[ruhrohraggy]

11 minutes ago, Angpaur said:

Another thing I would like to mention is that maybe you should reconsider your cooling system. There is not point in cooling hydrogen - all heat will be destroyed in the generator. Also there is no point to cool down oxygen you send to atmosuits. If you use insulated pipes then heat will not affect surroundings. Stored O2 in suit dock doesn't seem to heat up envoitment neither.

So the best way is to cool down only O2, which you intended to vent into your base for breathing.

Yep, that's the plan.

For my atmo suits I use an oxidizer (oxygen diffuser) and a pump.

Cooling the hydrogen is / was not part of the design plan. The pipes are routed that way such that, there is no packet interference from the hydrogen. The hydrogen gets stripped out and recombined in a different piping system than the oxygen.

If you watch the oxygen, you will see that it is flowing freely, and recombining somewhat evenly at the output. I haven't bothered with temp controls with this demonstration, because I plan on using this with an AETN (I accidentally deleted it when building this), and that's easy to regulate. I just restrict it's input of hydrogen and send the excess away once it gets too cold in the room.

Appreciate the advice!

[Nitroturtle]

7 minutes ago, ruhrohraggy said:

Thanks!

I also understand. Building them can be a pain, and often, they end up being more trouble than they're worth, or they end up slowing down the flow of a game.

I started out oni using a passive electrolyzer setup like that, and I like it too. But then I have to handle the systems that support it directly, instead of it being it's own unit. And often, an easy cooling or water solution might be a long ways from center base. But there are always ways of dealing with it.

I envision the best application of the Spaghetti Monster, is to be a one time, mid-game investment. There's no need to build any more really, and you could use other means for further oxygen production scaling.

  S'getti will do it's job by providing a single stable source of oxygen for 8 dupes, as long as you feed it water, and it won't be a huge pain in the butt to troubleshoot or maintain. The scale-ability and complexity / initial time investment of it is probably it's worst selling point for sure. Efficiency, Reliability and hands-free-ness would be the highest.

Usually my mid-game to late-game transition lasts for a little bit while I clear space and churn out steel and plastic. I also tend to stick with 8 dupes for awhile...so I think this suits my own personal strategy well. I understand this might not be for everyone. But it's now out there for those who like SPOM's but are also sick of how finicky they can be.

Lastly, I think this would be terrible for any industrial application, say for lox or lh2. There's much better ways to mass output hydrogen and oxygen.

Yeah, I completely understand.  One of the things I love about this game is how many different solutions there are to a given problem.  I just wanted to point out that a SPOM isn't required to have a working oxygen solution.  It seems that a lot of people are stuck on the idea that a SPOM is a required part of a base at this point.  But once you start scaling up to 16+ dupes, it really requires quite a mess of piping trying to pump oxygen into your base and exosuits.

[ruhrohraggy]

1 minute ago, Nitroturtle said:

Yeah, I completely understand.  One of the things I love about this game is how many different solutions there are to a given problem.  I just wanted to point out that a SPOM isn't required to have a working oxygen solution.  It seems that a lot of people are stuck on the idea that a SPOM is a required part of a base at this point.  But once you start scaling up to 16+ dupes, it really requires quite a mess of piping trying to pump oxygen into your base and exosuits.

Yeah...I wouldn't want to build s'getti more than once in a playthrough, let alone 2-3+ more times. It just offers a really efficient cooled o2 solution when water and power might be tight, or maybe you get unlucky nat.gas spawns that are miles away from base....or something like that.

[Grimgaw]

10 minutes ago, Angpaur said:

There is not point in cooling hydrogen - all heat will be destroyed in the generator.

Or you could use that cool Hydrogen to cool other things before sending it to generator.

11 minutes ago, Angpaur said:

Stored O2 in suit dock doesn't seem to heat up envoitment neither.

It does (at least in SU).

[Angpaur]

23 minutes ago, Grimgaw said:

Or you could use that cool Hydrogen to cool other things before sending it to generator.

So you want to cool down something which is created as hot to make it hot again? Right...

I would rather place that one wheezwort near the other hot thing or just use some already colder medium to cool it down.

23 minutes ago, Grimgaw said:

It does (at least in SU).

During 1000 cycles I've been using atmo suits I've never had any heat issues around my atmo suits stations. And I have 4 stations, each of 8 docks and all recieve hot oxygen from electrolyzer. So the heat transfer must be really minimal, probably similar like with reservoirs.

[ruhrohraggy]

40 minutes ago, Angpaur said:

Just remember to first vacuum the electrolyzer chamber - otherwise results will be wrong

I filled a liquid reservoir (the building) with exactly 100kg of water and sent it through.

Final output was 10.6 kg of hydrogen. So yeah it deleted a little bit. That's ONI for ya...oh well.

I think the lower power requirements still make up for it as I still get surplus hydrogen, even when running the water pump...And it's nearly 100% efficient for oxygen production. 98% or something...so it makes up for it where i want it to. This isn't really meant for making hydrogen efficiently, it's just a little added bonus that extra comes out. (And won't cut off your entire oxygen supply due to backing up)

[Angpaur]

5% of deleted Hydrogen is not that bad. I've seen worse, I've used worse designs before I realize the deletion

If you want to get some more hydrogen from one electrolyzer and you don't mind using some exploits then there is a 3 pumps setup, which you could easily adapt for your build. It can produce 174g/s of Hydrogen, but Oxygen output is lowered to 826g/s. Total sum still is 1000g/s.

Below is my survival game implementation of such build:

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

[Grimgaw]

3 minutes ago, Angpaur said:

If you want to get some more hydrogen from one electrolyzer and you don't mind using some exploits then there is a 3 pumps setup,

I'm curious as to what you consider an exploit in your build.

[Angpaur]

Just now, Grimgaw said:

I'm curious as to what you consider an exploit in your build.

This 3 pumps design exploits the way gases "fights" for space to create unintended by game developers amount of Hydrogen. Yeah, I consider something like this as an exploit

[ruhrohraggy]

6 minutes ago, Angpaur said:

If you want to get some more hydrogen from one electrolyzer and you don't mind using some exploits then there is a 3 pumps setup, which you could easily adapt for your build. It can produce 174g/s of Hydrogen, but Oxygen output is lowered to 826g/s. Total sum still is 1000g/s.

Below is my survival game implementation of such build:

  Reveal hidden contents

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

Neat! I'll have to try it out. I don't mind using exploits. The 2nd version of the Spaghetti monster uses the infinite gas storage exploit, and it requires a TON less in the way of piping systems. However, if it backs up, the system is toast. It has to have a constant output no matter what.

I also use the infinite gas exploit to make a gas sorting tower for pumping all of the random gases into one sorted place. I'll exploit a little bit to reduce lag.

[Grimgaw]

1 minute ago, ruhrohraggy said:

Neat! I'll have to try it out. I don't mind using exploits.

If you're using any of that hydrogen for power generation, bear in mind that any electrolyzer setup with more than one pump wastes power (and therefore hydrogen), so you might be better off with your 5% loss.

[Angpaur]

2 minutes ago, Grimgaw said:

f you're using any of that hydrogen for power generation, bear in mind that any electrolyzer setup with more than one pump wastes power (and therefore hydrogen), so you might be better off with your 5% loss.

Well I guess you are not able to do simple math if you claim such things.

This 3 pump system provides power surplus that any other "traditional" build cannot provide. If you don't know how to count it you can always just test it by yourself.

[LeftyRighty]

didn't realise that electrolyzers had such problems... did some digging around found this: https://imgur.com/a/HvW7LmQ is that still accurate?

[ruhrohraggy]

23 minutes ago, Angpaur said:

Well I guess you are not able to do simple math if you claim such things.

This 3 pump system provides power surplus that any other "traditional" build cannot provide. If you don't know how to count it you can always just test it by yourself.

I'm guessing that 3 pump 1 electrolyzer runs constantly?

240watts * 3 = 720 watts Pumps.

120 watts Electrolyzer

240 watts liquid pump * 1/10 = 24 watts (electrolyzer want 1kg/s, pump geef 10 kg/s, thus, only need to pump 1/10th as much)

Totals 864 watts.

Hydrogen gen produces 800 watts peak, 100g/s hydrogen. Total energy per cycle peak is 600s * 0.8 kW = 480 kJ.

Surplus gas/power is then 74 g/s hydrogen (You claimed 174 g/s, I'm not arguing). Surplus power through a 2nd hydrogen gen is 74% of full cycle peak for a fully "hydrogenated" (lol) gen.

Total potential power per cycle is 800 watts + 592 watts = 1392 watts ===> 835.2 kJ

Total consumed power per cycle is 864 watts * 600 = 518.4 kJ

Total surplus power = 835.2 kJ - 518.4 kJ = 316.8 kJ. Or about ~40% of an extra hydrogen generator for a full cycle of peak output, which is like...320 watts.

So yeah, that seems legit assuming the raw math matches up with ONI's typical wonkyness.

 

[Grimgaw]

1 minute ago, Angpaur said:

Well I guess you are not able to do simple math if you claim such things.

I don't think starting your argument with an unwarranted insult is a way to go friend.

Assumptions:

• you want hydrogen for power only.
• your three pumps never create a vaccum

Your 3 pump system consumes 120W+720W=840W non stop. So in a cycle you're consuming 504kW to produce 104.4kg of hydrogen which nets 835.2kW. That's a net of 331.2kW a cycle.

One pump setup consumes 120W+53.8W non stop. Consumes 104.28kW a cycle to produce 67.2kg of hydrogen which gives 537.6kW a cycle. That's a net of 433.323kW cycle.

[Angpaur]

Below are real game results:

Spoiler

Total power surplus from one cycle was 269.6kJ.

Filter consumption can be ignored as non-power consuming replacement can be used.

Even though my testing of design capacity proved it is producing 174g/s then if you try to convert it into power seems to lack a few dozens of kJ...

7 minutes ago, Grimgaw said:

One pump setup consumes 120W+53.8W non stop. Consumes 104.28kW a cycle to produce 67.2kg of hydrogen which gives 537.6kW a cycle. That's a net of 433.323kW cycle

I would like to see your one pump design providing Oxygen for atmosuits XD

There is no real use case that one pump will be enough. Maybe only for Dense puft farming, which I indeed use with one pump only.