The Not-Quite Self-Powered and (Hopefully) 100% Kosher Air Conditioner

[Roboson]

So, inspired by all the self-powered air systems that seem to be in vogue right now, I thought I would learn how to use debug mode and take a crack at simplifying some of these complicated automatic oxygen producing systems. But I couldn't quite get there. So I thought I would post it here and see if someone had some advice on pushing it over the edge to self power. It can run on it's own for a few cycles, but after a while the inner-hydrogen levels fail to pressurize enough to activate the sensor. It runs everything you see here, plus a pump leading from a geyser.  Anyhow, advice is welcome. 

 

Its a pretty simple design, just uses two weezes and a hydrogen radiator for cooling an otherwise simple elecrolizer set up. So if anyone has advice on how to optimize it so that dupe doesn't have to get on there every once in a while, that would be lovely. 

[Yoma_Nosme]

First off, i like your ingenuity for a new player. But i dont think your build will ever be 100% self sufficient. (because there is no self sufficent, self cooling build that don't relies on bug(drip cooling) or wheezworts (meh, magic i guess)

Your design is basically a tuned-down LOX system (liquid oxygen system) or Hydrogen bubbler please look it up if you're not familiar with the terms. I know you are not producing liquid O2 but you could not that its needed. So anyhow, those bubblers used to breakdown because of the hydrogen getting to cold, breaking the pipe after the Thermo Regulator

To prevent that people put in a pipe bridge right there

and a thermo sensor (wolframite/tungsten)inside the cooled room to shut off the regulator when the needed temp is acchieved

EXPLAINATION: When the sensor shuts off the regulator, the bridge will keep the gas moving, circling, warming (more) evenly, before it kicks on again because if you let it run the way its set up now, say goodbye pipe

But there is a downside to this as well, the TR only processes every 2nd packet of hydrogen

but thats enough to cool your Oxygen needs because you dont need it too cold maybe the pipe bridge and thermo sensor will even help a bit with power since it doesn't run all the time.

To conclude i don't think it will ever be 100% self powering but in my opinion it don't has to be, as said above either "bug" or "magic" if you want the oxygen to be cool

please try it out i think you'll like it

EDIT. make sure your hydrogen gas pipes inside the oxygen room are ingnious rock because it's the best for heat exchange right now

EDIT. look two posts down at Saturnus TR bypass piping, so all hydrogen packets are processed

 

[QuQuasar]

Sadly, this design is impossible to sustain. An electrolyser produces enough hydrogen to pump all the gas it produces into pipes, plus a very small amount of excess. It does not produce nearly enough spare energy to continually run a thermo-regulator.

 

The only way to get something like this to work is to do away with the enclosed design and allow the oxygen to freely escape into your base. That eliminates the oxygen pump’s energy cost, which you can then put towards the thermo regulator. Unfortunately, it also means the device’s position in your base becomes extremely important: you can’t put it anywhere the way you can with an enclosed design.

[Saturnus]

27 minutes ago, Yoma_Nosme said:

But there is a downside to this as well, the TR only processes every 2nd packet of hydrogen

Not necessarily. You use the old valve and bridge bypass trick.

Put the valve after the regulator. And then the bridge to feed back into main line.

I like to set the bypass valve to 200g/s but you can set it at maximum.

This circulates the gas when the regulator is off, and let's the regulator process full packets when on.

 

[Yoma_Nosme]

Saturnus is absolutly right, use this setup around the thermo regulator, much better!

[Roboson]

Yeah I'm familiar with the terms and actually based it off an old hydrogen bubbler I used back before outbreak. 

 

The first (and much larger) version of this used a sensor because it had freezing issues as you described, but this one is too hot for that (or it takes more than 60 cycles to cool to those temperatures). 

 

I'll add in the loop with the valve, that's a neat trick. 

[Yoma_Nosme]

2 minutes ago, Roboson said:

Yeah I'm familiar with the terms and actually based it off an old hydrogen bubbler I used back before outbreak. 

Then sorry for calling you a new player, wasn't meant as an provocation if you might took it this way

[Saturnus]

As @QuQuasar mentions above. The other self-powered self-cooled builds works because they either use wheezeworts or drip cooling to a lesser or greater extent, for example the Borg Cube which uses less than two Watts on average to cool 1000g/s O2. Even using a nullifier which uses 10g/s H2, or 80W, is stretching the energy budget.

So you need to get rid of the oxygen pumps and let the oxygen flow into your base on it's own to have a chance at succeeding in cooling it with regulators.

Unlike aquatuners though there's no effective way of deleting heat, so all you're doing is moving the thermal energy from one place to another using energy. You're cooling the regulator with wheezeworts. Is that any different from just using the wheezeworts to cool directly and avoid the regulator?

[Kabrute]

it is in that weeze worts delete gas in mixed gas, in a sealed environment you can avoid weezy deletion events

[Saturnus]

1 minute ago, Kabrute said:

it is in that weeze worts delete gas in mixed gas, in a sealed environment you can avoid weezy deletion events

I was more thinking having them in a hydrogen filled room made of metal tiles but then it would just be the same as other builds really.

[The Arcanian]

 

@Saturnus@Yoma_Nosme Are you guys forgetting that a bridges input is preferred over the next pipe or is that too advanced for the intent of this discussion?

If not then just build the pipe so that it goes to the secondary destination and make sure it always goes to the primary first by using a bridge from the line to the primary destination. Or if you want to ensure direction flow, make the first bridge the pipes hit be the primary and the second bridge is secondary. The key is to make sure to keep them in sequence.

[Saturnus]

1 minute ago, The Arcanian said:

If not then just build the pipe so that it goes to the secondary destination and make sure it always goes to the primary first by using a bridge from the line to the primary destination. Or if you want to ensure direction flow, make the first bridge the pipes hit be the primary and the second bridge is secondary. The key is to make sure to keep them in sequence.

Try it. You end up with every other package not going to the regulator

The valve and bridge solves the problem with confused regulators. It's a much more elegant solution.

[Yoma_Nosme]

@The Arcanian

I'm not sure i can follow you but if i understand you right you refer to saturnus picture,

if so there is a valve before the pipe bridge which only gets "preferred" when the TR is off, so the only "action the bridge sees" is when the TR is off as well.

or am i messing things up?

[The Flying Fox]

13 minutes ago, Saturnus said:

I was more thinking having them in a hydrogen filled room made of metal tiles but then it would just be the same as other builds really.

Right, the combination of using the thermo-regulators with wheezeworts really only makes sense when you're trying to cool below the temperature that the wheezes can handle.  For instance, making LOX or liquefied natural gas.  Or, if you're trying to centralize your cooling, like dumping all your wheezes and an anti-entropy machine together.  Of course, with that kind of setup, just having an equal sized, or larger, radiator in that centralized room would work too.  Use gas valves to move cold hydrogen to and from the cooling room loop to other loops.

 

Of course, thermo-regulators are a good choice if you're purposely trying to remove heat from one area to heat or re-heat another area.

[Saturnus]

1 minute ago, Yoma_Nosme said:

I'm not sure i can follow you but if i understand you right you refer to saturnus picture,

if so there is a valve before the pipe bridge which only gets "preferred" when the TR is off, so the only "action the bridge sees" is when the TR is of as well.

or am i messing things up?

The problem is the regular and aquatuner, or any machine with a throughput doesn't quite work like bridge. It functions more like a valve, therefore using a valve to direct flow to the bridge is the only option that actually works. Using only bridges to bypass regulators does not work.

[SkunkMaster]

1 hour ago, Yoma_Nosme said:

First off, i like your ingenuity for a new player. But i dont think your build will ever be 100% self sufficient. (because there is no self sufficent, self cooling build that don't relies on bug(drip cooling) or wheezworts (meh, magic i guess)

What about the Anti-Entropy Thermo-Nullifers ? would you consider them magic, taking into account that they actually need to be "powered" ? 

 

[Yoma_Nosme]

@SkunkMaster

no. as you said you have to input something to get something in return. but wheezworts are a kind of perpetuum mobile.

[SkunkMaster]

4 minutes ago, Yoma_Nosme said:

@SkunkMaster

no. as you said you have to input something to get something in return. but wheezworts are a kind of perpetum mobilem.

So are valve/bridge constructions. 

And you can definitely make a self-powered and cooled oxygen setup, using water straight from a geyser and running the air by the AETN device. Theese setups can be dangerous if you don't use enough energy though.

[Roboson]

57 minutes ago, Yoma_Nosme said:

Then sorry for calling you a new player, wasn't meant as an provocation if you might took it this way

No it's ok, I haven't posted much on the forums, but I have over 300 hours logged on ONI (and have no life) XD. So when it comes to common community builds like Borg Cubes, I have no idea, but I've figured out a trick or two of my own .

 

As for the regulator, it works well for me because it allows faster cooling.  So the weezes keep that little room constantly cold, and the regulator cools the oxygen fairly quickly (from the electrolizer to the exit pump it drops several dozen degrees). I'm thinking that the weezes alone wouldn't cool the oxygen that fast. Similar issue with turning it into an open system, the oxygen ended up leaving too fast for it to cool properly. 

 

 

[Yoma_Nosme]

@SkunkMaster

touche

to be fair, i'm no muggle so to speak i use wheezworts too but not extensivly

but the valve/bridge thing i don't consider magic, more like a way piping works in game

[Saturnus]

6 minutes ago, SkunkMaster said:

And you can definitely make a self-powered and cooled oxygen setup, using water straight from a geyser and running the air by the AETN device. Theese setups can be dangerous if you don't use enough energy though.

Go ahead. Nullifiers come in a few different forms of ruins around them. I challenge you to do a build that works with all of them so you're no relying on luck to get the right ruin on your map, and without deleting ruin tiles in debug.

It can be done, sure, but please demonstrate it.

[The Flying Fox]

@Yoma_Nosme

 

You can certainly make an oxygen unit that's 100% self-powered and cooling with an Anti-Entropy machine.  I have made one.  Metal tiles are not needed.  Temp-shift plates don't need to be made of something exotic.  Produces 1000 G/s of oxygen.

Also, I'm pretty certainly that only a single bridge is needed to bypass a thermo-regulator, but it depends on how you pipe it.  Otherwise, Saturnus is right and you need two.  You just need to put the bridge after the input of the thermo-regulator.

 

[SkunkMaster]

1 minute ago, Saturnus said:

Go ahead. Nullifiers come in a few different forms of ruins around them. I challenge you to do a build that works with all of them so you're no relying on luck to get the right ruin on your map,and without deleting ruin tiles in debug.

It can be done, sure, but please demonstrate it.

Are you considering the fact that you can build a metal cage around it, and then have a metal tile heatpipe transport the coolness to a place where you can facilitate it better ? 

the cage is filled with hydrogen ofcourse.

[Yoma_Nosme]

@The Flying Fox

I haven't said you cannot. i mentioned only drip cooling and wheezworts and replied i dont think AETN is magic. totally cool (pun intended) with them

EDIT. oh yeah my first post, i didn't took AETN there in account because the thing was about his chamber

[Saturnus]

14 minutes ago, Roboson said:

As for the regulator, it works well for me because it allows faster cooling.  So the weezes keep that little room constantly cold, and the regulator cools the oxygen fairly quickly (from the electrolizer to the exit pump it drops several dozen degrees). I'm thinking that the weezes alone wouldn't cool the oxygen that fast. Similar issue with turning it into an open system, the oxygen ended up leaving too fast for it to cool properly. 

Metal tiles and temp shift plates changed the game on that part. Now pipe radiators is really a relic with very few practical applications. These days just boxing in wheezeworts in metal tiles and slapping diamond tiles all over seems to be the cure all.

Or building Borg Cubes in one form or another naturally.

10 minutes ago, SkunkMaster said:

Are you considering the fact that you can build a metal cage around it, and then have a metal tile heatpipe transport the coolness to a place where you can facilitate it better ? 

Yes. Demonstrate it in practise.

10 minutes ago, The Flying Fox said:

You can certainly make an oxygen unit that's 100% self-powered and cooling with an Anti-Entropy machine.  I have made one.  Metal tiles are not needed.  Temp-shift plates don't need to be made of something exotic. 

But you did copy/paste in the nullifier to avoid the pesky ruin tiles

And you do seem to use an awful lot of temp shift plates and metal tiles that aren't needed.