How to cool your base?

[The Flying Fox]

5 hours ago, midjones said:

If I understand correctly, Thermo Regulators achieve cooling by just soaking up the heat into themselves as 1-1 ratio, and so you must still deal with the hot equipment. The more hot air that they're cooling, the more they need to be cooled themselves. How are you keeping your regulators cool - wheezeworts-in-hydrgen abysellite room? Keep them in the same room with the electrolyzers or separate?

How do you regulate the electrolyzer thermally isolated room to 71.5c?

Got any screenshots?

Even with running 3 thermo-regulators, since they're just cooling oxygen, you can just liquid cool them with a small amount of water.  Water has much higher heat capacity then oxygen.  If each regulator is processing 1000 grams of O2, then dripping 1000 grams of water on them each will only raise the water's temperature a fraction of the temperature the O2 is being cooled down because of water's higher thermal capacity.  Then you can do whatever you wish with the water.  Even pump it into the electrolyzers to get converted into oxygen and hydrogen.    It's a heat destroying process, although it requires a lot of power to run.

 

To answer your second question.  An electrolyzer room will just self-regulate to around that temperature because the hottest stuff in that room is the produced gases  (The electrolyzer produces gases at 70C)  The electrolyzers and the air pumps in that room produce only a tiny amount of extra heat in comparison, so the temperature just ends up averaging to heat of the gases.

 

[Technoincubus]

Occupational update is here and the problem is still here.

I tried to have a hydrogen room with 4 wheezes and with -20 C and two gas coolers they cool oxygen from 50 to 30. And that's clearlly not enough.

So I guess my solution is to add more and more thermo regulators.

But in case of geyser water, aquatuners hog 1200 wats and given how "well" regulators perform, I'd have to set up a separate installation just to break even with power.

[SkunkMaster]

This is how i cool my base:

It cools down air to sub zero degrees. could most likely be optimized even further, but i'm lazy too be honest.

[Kasuha]

28 minutes ago, SkunkMaster said:

My first feeling about it is that you got way too many Worts in your map. I doubt I even have so many.

Also, Worts tend to send gases upwards and in this arrangement I'd guess you have notably higher pressure above than below them, that might lead to colder oxygen but also lower oxygen production.

[SkunkMaster]

25 minutes ago, Kasuha said:

My first feeling about it is that you got way too many Worts in your map. I doubt I even have so many.

Also, Worts tend to send gases upwards and in this arrangement I'd guess you have notably higher pressure above than below them, that might lead to colder oxygen but also lower oxygen production.

My oxygen production is surplus. right now i'm considering how to deal with the excess amounts, would liquid oxygen be a valid cooling option for steam generator setup i wonder... 

 

Also the air pumps are sucking the air down with such a force that the upwards stream for the worts is nullified i would say.

[Kasuha]

3 minutes ago, SkunkMaster said:

My oxygen production is surplus.

Three oxygen pumps at the bottom can't deliver more than 1500 g/s of oxygen. In your setup I wouldn't be surprised if it was less. You have 18 duplicants, that's 1800 g/s if they're breathing. So if you have surplus oxygen from this, you make them hold breath or breathe something else than your produced oxygen for sufficiently long periods.

7 minutes ago, SkunkMaster said:

would liquid oxygen be a valid cooling option for steam generator setup i wonder... 

It has way too narrow range between freezing and boiling, not a good coolant choice in my opinion.

[SkunkMaster]

1 minute ago, Kasuha said:

Three oxygen pumps at the bottom can't deliver more than 1500 g/s of oxygen. In your setup I wouldn't be surprised if it was less. You have 18 duplicants, that's 1800 g/s if they're breathing. So if you have surplus oxygen from this, you make them hold breath or breathe something else than your produced oxygen for sufficiently long periods.

 

not really i would say. the 1200 are just at the top of the co2 layer. inside base it's 1.8-2kg

[Whispershade]

On 1/23/2018 at 2:59 PM, midjones said:

Could this be done with a liquid valve instead? I'm not actually sure how to force max size packets to go through.

Wow that's a lot of wheezeworts then, since Whispershade's build requires 3 thermo regulators. 9 wheezeworts, and this would probably only cool 1 electrolyzer worth of oxygen (assuming 1 electrolyzer with 2 gas pumps would feed constant max packets of oxygen)

I haven't played in quite a while. But no, at the time of this posting I ran effectively zero wheezeworts. I don't know if things are different at this time than how I ran my system then so what I am about to say may very well be out of date.

What I did was use thermo regulators with hydrogen radiators to cool natural gas and petrol generators down to about -19.5c. And used the polluted water output, which was expelled at the operating temperature of the energy generator to cool the thermo regulators. With enough generators setup this way it produces net cooling to cool batteries, transformers, hydrogen generators and extra thermo regulators.

The electrolyzers output gas at around 70c so when the rooms were thermally isolated they never would heat up beyond that temperature. The last that I played was the oil update, however.

[clickrush]

On 5.2.2018 at 2:34 PM, Kasuha said:

My first feeling about it is that you got way too many Worts in your map. I doubt I even have so many.

Also, Worts tend to send gases upwards and in this arrangement I'd guess you have notably higher pressure above than below them, that might lead to colder oxygen but also lower oxygen production.

Just from this picture you see that he has deodorizers all over the place and the living areas of the base are wide open. Each of them can go up to 90g/s and slime biomes usually have large amounts of super pressurized PO2 pockets. Just looking at my base right now there are plenty and plenty of pockets ranging from 2kg to 10kg per tile. And since his base is so open there must be enough deodorizing that goes into hundrets of cycles.

[m0ver]

Here is a simple setup for creating oxygen, deploying it and keeping it really cool. Notice that this area was previously a jungle biome

Actually, I have more problems with cold than the heat. In my previous base I had to put heater in every room  to keep it above 20 degrees!

Design for the lower part was taken from Brothgar, the upper cooling chamber is a small addition that does wonders. Keep it overpressurised at above 5kgs and you are set for a long time.

[Kasuha]

Here's my run-of-the-mill oxygen production system, maximum capacity 1 kg/s of oxygen. Yes, it produces oxygen at about 70 C:

And here's my passive oxygen cooler:

The oxygen has three paths available, two around outside granite walls of Wort chambers, and one in the middle where the walls are abyssalite. The thermal sensors then open or close doors to keep the outgoing gas temperature within required limits and the door at the bottom opens when the outside pressure is below 2 kg/tile.

It has a few drawbacks. First, one must watch for packets of hydrogen that may enter it and obstruct the flow. I guess the upper part could be changed more to an A shape with a pump there to draw any collected hydrogen out. And second, oxygen diffuses very slow. It's probably better to build it somewhere near the center of the colony rather than at the very top as I did. The pump at the bottom is there to take some of the released oxygen and distribute it around the base and to other places that need it, so in the end it is powered a bit. But that's just half of the total production.

 

[midjones]

3 minutes ago, Kasuha said:

Here's my run-of-the-mill oxygen production system, maximum capacity 1 kg/s of oxygen. Yes, it produces oxygen at about 70 C:

I wonder if it would be an improvement to replace the regular tiles around the wheezeworts with metal tiles

[Kasuha]

1 minute ago, midjones said:

I wonder if it would be an improvement to replace the regular tiles around the wheezeworts with metal tiles

I think the heat transfer is sufficient. There's no need for the wall to transfer more heat than what the Worts can remove.

[midjones]

2 minutes ago, Kasuha said:

I think the heat transfer is sufficient. There's no need for the wall to transfer more heat than what the Worts can remove.

From your testing does it look like your passive cooling system can pump as much cooled oxygen as a more complex thermo regulator system?  Thermo regulators cool the air instantly, but at significant power cost (and the need to cool the thermo regulators somehow)

[Kasuha]

1 minute ago, midjones said:

From your testing does it look like your passive cooling system can pump as much cooled oxygen as a more complex thermo regulator system?  Thermo regulators cool the air instantly, but at significant power cost (and the need to cool the thermo regulators somehow)

So far my experience is that one Wort in hydrogen box can drive 500 g/s, thus two for 1 kg/s. At the moment it drives temperature from 66 C down to 12 C, saving work of about 4 regulators (960 W).

[midjones]

17 minutes ago, Kasuha said:

So far my experience is that one Wort in hydrogen box can drive 500 g/s, thus two for 1 kg/s. At the moment it drives temperature from 66 C down to 12 C, saving work of about 4 regulators (960 W).

Would it still work just as well to have both Worts in a single hydrogen box? (instead of two 1-wort boxes)

[Kasuha]

9 minutes ago, midjones said:

Would it still work just as well to have both Worts in a single hydrogen box? (instead of two 1-wort boxes)

I don't know, feel free to give it a try.

[Falcahtas]

Thermal nullifiers + Gas Generators are very good for cooling anything that goes through pipes.

 

Since Gas Generators expel outputs the same temperature of the generator you can easily have them expel -40C Polluted Ice rather than polluted water. This essential means you are increasing a mass that is very cold so more heat is absorbed.

It does need a way to limit the nullifer though as at -50C the CO2 will instantly condense in pipes which causing breakages. 

[avc15]

hey, i know quite a lot of people have given you some very advanced ideas already.

But, there is still some difficulty in surviving the transition from early tech into a power hungry, water hungry base. So how do you go about it?

Well, I have realized a few things along the way that might help if you're not into exploits.

First, Geyser water is created at 100C, in other words, for every dupe you print and all the water they use daily, you are dumping a HUGE amount of heat into your asteroid and/or base. My point? Wait until AFTER you've switched to electrolyzers and stabilized the heat in your base to increase your base population.

Second, just focus in the first 100 cycles or so on not being wasteful of both power and water. Every bit of water you waste, every bit of power you waste, is that much more heat you'll have to manage later.

Third, your industrial machinery is perfectly happy living in a swamp and getting pretty hot, as long as you keep your powerplant a reasonable size and build it from gold ore (I seem to always end up using 1coal/2hydrogen generators early on). It'll just keep rejecting heat into its surrounding swamp biome until you're ready to build a new powerplant with actual cooling.

If you do those things, you can survive the switch to electrolyzers just by scattering wheezeworts around your base. You can ramp up your consumption later, but only by also upgrading to more advanced cooling methods as you go.

[Le0n1des]

A thing I like to do early on (even before establishing a research station) is to arrange water locks on each side of the starting biome, and create vacuum column on each side and a vacuum row on the bottom (no need to bother with the top edge of the base as heat won't spread downwards). Instant termoisolation way before actual isolation is possible...

[Lutzkhie]

i insulate the outer layer with insulated tile, now that igneous rock is changed and has "slow heating thing" its really helpful early game even the steam geyser area decreased its temp to at lease 27c and still decreasing

[Technoincubus]

Electrolyzers are ok. It is water that heats the base it seems. And aquatuners, even gold ones, overheat everything they touch. So it is either building huge automation-filled installation with oil cooling systems and other **** ot just constantly repair aquatuner, which, in turn, require 1.2kW of energy, that's about four or six nat gas gens working full time to support pumps, filters etc.

No simple or even moderately difficult solution. This or searching for some exploits.