acolyteofrocket Posted November 11, 2018 Share Posted November 11, 2018 Cycle 1380ish. Finally managed to launch a few steam rockets, build a steel refinery that hasn't blown up, and stabilise my base. The next step would be to move to petroleum rockets, which I have researched. But I am short of steel and making more is a grind because of the lime. I have mined out most of the fossil in my map and I have enough farms (4 hatch, 1 shinebug, 1 drekko) that I have loads of meat (although I only feed it to my 3 trained astronauts) but eggshells are just not flowing fast enough to meet the steel demand. It would have been even worse if I didn't keep blowing up my refinery Is this lime/steel bottleneck normal ? or have I missed something ? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/98484-is-anyone-else-finding-lime-a-bottleneck/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
hpongledd Posted November 11, 2018 Share Posted November 11, 2018 Lime is and, i guess, by design it'll remain a bottleneck. I think pacu farms are the designed hatches for lime. So a ranch with pacus would definitely help. f.e. In my last base i started to experiment with "open ranches" (meaning i ranch critter in big rooms, to avoid "crampled/overcrowded" debuff). The amount of critters is just absurd and lime is flowing like mad. Unfortunatly with the current state of the game its almost impossible to maintain them with FPS > 12. So all 3-4 cycles i sweep the whole ranch. f.e. This is my drecko ranch, if i wouldnt kill them all after some cycles, it would get absurd. The ranch is faaaar from optimized. But that wasnt my goal, my goal was to make it look pretty . This is my rocket silo i was able to build, with this approach and sitting on 3k steel right now (1600 cycles, of course i also closed of space with steel): Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/98484-is-anyone-else-finding-lime-a-bottleneck/#findComment-1114013 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasza22 Posted November 11, 2018 Share Posted November 11, 2018 My last game after building a steel shell around the asteorid i still had enough steel for 2 rockets. Steam engines take a lot of steel. When upgrading to petroleum rockets i just deconstructed those and had enough for petroleum rockets for the most part. Maybe i had more fossils in my seed i`m not sure. I guess the lime bottleneck can be something happening lategame. I just recycled some of the steel stuff like redundant bunker tiles after i build doors above or steel pumps for steam after i switched to petroleum rockets. With a petroleum rocket you can get some steel from space in the 30k range. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/98484-is-anyone-else-finding-lime-a-bottleneck/#findComment-1114014 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurgel Posted November 11, 2018 Share Posted November 11, 2018 Not a problem, I think. Lime from fossils is enough to secure space and get the first rocket going. After that, either get steel from asteroids or do some extensive pacu or drecko farming for egg-shells. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/98484-is-anyone-else-finding-lime-a-bottleneck/#findComment-1114102 Share on other sites More sharing options...
acolyteofrocket Posted November 11, 2018 Author Share Posted November 11, 2018 11 minutes ago, Gurgel said: Not a problem, I think. Lime from fossils is enough to secure space and get the first rocket going. After that, either get steel from asteroids or do some extensive pacu or drecko farming for egg-shells. You can get steel from other asteroids ? good to know... Right now my steam rocket setup is mothballed while I potter around doing other jobs in my base and slowly build up more steel (I don't want to dismantle it, in case I want to play with automating it later). I tried a solid rocket booster and a cargo pod to go beyond the first rung of asteroids but couldn't get it to work. I don't have a Pacu farm (yet), but why Drekko farms ? They only have 10% reproductive rate, I think Hatches are 15%. I have a steel shield, it was the first thing I built when I got to the surface. But I also prefer my rocket silos to have both doors bunker doors and a bunker steel lining. My rocket programs ain't cheap ... Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/98484-is-anyone-else-finding-lime-a-bottleneck/#findComment-1114112 Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzionut Posted November 11, 2018 Share Posted November 11, 2018 For me the only bottle neck is clay...i am trying to finish my insulated ceramic pipe for the toilets circuit... Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/98484-is-anyone-else-finding-lime-a-bottleneck/#findComment-1114115 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnis Posted November 11, 2018 Share Posted November 11, 2018 My newest Save has ab iron bottleneck, as I prefer meteoric iron over iron Ore. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/98484-is-anyone-else-finding-lime-a-bottleneck/#findComment-1114120 Share on other sites More sharing options...
crypticorb Posted November 11, 2018 Share Posted November 11, 2018 If you're running into a bottleneck on lime, you need to core out the oil biome for fossils. There's guaranteed to be enough fossil to crush into lime to make a full shield of steel bunker tiles, usually more. When I breached the surface around cycle 400, without any ranching at all, I had enough lime to get a significant start on the shield, and by cycle 500 it is completely done and I still have 3,000kg of steel left over. Iron is usually not a problem because once you breach the surface, there's always loads of iron just lying around. I only had to smelt a small amount of iron to get started on my bunker shield, and all the rest was from meteors. I currently have 15 tons of refined iron, purely from meteors. This should not be a bottleneck, you just need to make a ladder walkway to collect it all. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/98484-is-anyone-else-finding-lime-a-bottleneck/#findComment-1114121 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neotuck Posted November 11, 2018 Share Posted November 11, 2018 1 hour ago, tzionut said: For me the only bottle neck is clay...i am trying to finish my insulated ceramic pipe for the toilets circuit... spam deodorizers in swamp biomes and/or place them next to algae terrariums Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/98484-is-anyone-else-finding-lime-a-bottleneck/#findComment-1114156 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurgel Posted November 11, 2018 Share Posted November 11, 2018 2 hours ago, acolyteofrocket said: I don't have a Pacu farm (yet), but why Drekko farms ? They only have 10% reproductive rate, I think Hatches are 15%. You can feed Drekkos for free... Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/98484-is-anyone-else-finding-lime-a-bottleneck/#findComment-1114166 Share on other sites More sharing options...
acolyteofrocket Posted November 11, 2018 Author Share Posted November 11, 2018 12 minutes ago, Gurgel said: You can feed Drekkos for free... But you still need to groom them yes ? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/98484-is-anyone-else-finding-lime-a-bottleneck/#findComment-1114173 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SakuraKoi Posted November 11, 2018 Share Posted November 11, 2018 A decent Pacu farm? Just a 3x3 box with ladder, release and feeder on top, not that you need the feeder thou'. One can basically catch all Pacu by stealing their eggs through assigning those to Incubators (unpowered also works), the hatched Fry will then be delivered to the tubes by anyone~ My current Steel "industry" count at cycle 325 3480kg Steel 29kg Egg Shells (290kg Steel) 2192.8kg Fossil (never crushed, accidentally excavated by water so no count, no +1000kg) 60kg Lime (600kg Steel) 2x200kg Thermo Regulator 400kg Door and... where did 20kg go?! (auto-material-select script I dislike you, also please stop wasting my Tungsten!) => <5000kg Steel without fossils, without ranching, that's enough for a decent shield and rocket if not two. by the by Shove Voles may be a pest and even disregarding their 1kg egg shells, they drop 10 friggin kg of meat... i.e 16.000kcal raw, 20.000 kcal BBQ, not that I like BBQ because part of it is a debuff but... but meat! Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/98484-is-anyone-else-finding-lime-a-bottleneck/#findComment-1114188 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 11, 2018 Share Posted November 11, 2018 I have been checking out the fossil count on several seeds to get a feel for the amount of initial steel I can expect. Out of 20 seeds, the amount of fossil ranged from 80 to 140 tons with an estimated average of about 110 tons. 2 tons of fossil make 1 ton of steel. the default map is 253(?) tiles wide, 63 bunker doors to cover it is 31.5 tons of steel. Plus 2.8 tons of steel for your first steam rocket. seems like lime should not be a bottleneck until well after your second rocket unless you have a seed with a lower fossil count than I have seen so far. I suspect maps generated before the space industry upgrade have a lower fossil count. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/98484-is-anyone-else-finding-lime-a-bottleneck/#findComment-1114358 Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzionut Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 Quote spam deodorizers in swamp biomes and/or place them next to algae terrariums I have some deodorizers but won't make enough clay, so now i dig all the clay in the slime reveled area , algae terrariums i don,t use them, don't need them, same as hydro fans or fertilizer synthesizer, or power station... Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/98484-is-anyone-else-finding-lime-a-bottleneck/#findComment-1114613 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neotuck Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 12 minutes ago, tzionut said: I have some deodorizers but won't make enough clay, so now i dig all the clay in the slime reveled area , algae terrariums i don,t use them, don't need them, same as hydro fans or fertilizer synthesizer, or power station... depends how you plan your base I agree about the hydro fans and the power stations just waste your refined metals if the generators are idle from smart battery automation but I like terrariums for early game to save algae and fertilizer synthesizers are good for late game sleet wheat farming when dirt is hard to come by Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/98484-is-anyone-else-finding-lime-a-bottleneck/#findComment-1114617 Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzionut Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 My base is still in construction (in the 400-sh cycle) i rush for the steel production and cover the top bunker tile wall, I finish my central aquarium whit 24 degrees water ( i used an aquatuner for it), the single beds whit single WC whit germ removal area, now i am trying to finish my ceramic isolated pipe system for my toilets, so as i said clay is the new bottleneck since the abbysalite is gone Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/98484-is-anyone-else-finding-lime-a-bottleneck/#findComment-1114620 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neotuck Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 6 minutes ago, tzionut said: My base is still in construction (in the 400-sh cycle) i rush for the steel production and cover the top bunker tile wall, I finish my central aquarium whit 24 degrees water ( i used an aquatuner for it), the single beds whit single WC whit germ removal area, now i am trying to finish my ceramic isolated pipe system for my toilets, so as i said clay is the new bottleneck since the abbysalite is gone you can always use igneous rock, should provide enough insulation for simple toilet piping Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/98484-is-anyone-else-finding-lime-a-bottleneck/#findComment-1114627 Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzionut Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 I used igneous rock for my cool oxygen distribution network...in time it cooled the area, same whit 40 degrees water... so i prefer ceramic Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/98484-is-anyone-else-finding-lime-a-bottleneck/#findComment-1114638 Share on other sites More sharing options...
crypticorb Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 8 hours ago, Neotuck said: I agree about the hydro fans and the power stations just waste your refined metals if the generators are idle from smart battery automation I've found that by the time I'm making steel, I've also breached the surface. This means a massive influx of refined iron, which is more than enough for the steel refining. I've been using iron for making microchips. Combining engineers tuneup with smart batteries can make for incredible fuel savings. Since the tuneup lasts for 3 cycles, and doesn't take much refined metal to make, it's worthwhile. I've even added a smart battery to my refinery heat reclaiming steam turbine, so that it won't consume heat while the batteries are full. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/98484-is-anyone-else-finding-lime-a-bottleneck/#findComment-1114817 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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