Zeklo Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 So... I love the Mants. I love their designs. I love their charming little chattering. I love everything about them. But... I don't get it. You need to get the equipment required to enter the poison jungle. Then you need to locate a specific ruin. Then you need to explore said ruin. After doing all of that you'll now have the Pheromone Stone in your possession, so now you can communicate with mants, great! Now you can finally understand what specific mants' food of choice is in order to recruit them! No wait, you gotta get yourself two specific pieces of armor. Ok, got it? Cool! Now you have a few mediocre health, weaker than bare-fisted Wilson, loyal for a day allies. ...wait what? All that trouble just for that? Why not just buy yourself a couple pig guards instead? I understand the zerg potential, trust me I do. Spoiler These things don't seem to have a spawn cap. They just don't seem that worth it. When it comes to mants I'm not even sure I want to spare wood due to how strange the trees in this DLC work (granted you can plant other trees), and why would I? If you have a decent berry farm up and running then you have cash galore to get yourself plenty of sweet sweet oincs and with it plenty of armed (and dangerous) allies. I could understand if mants were those flimsy allies you befriend because they're relatively cheap and easy to access... but that's not the case. You gotta wear a particular set of armor after obtaining a particular item in a biome that's accessible in a particular way. They only really seem useful in bulk, and at that point your just better off hiring a couple pig guards... Well, they do seem to have one use: they can help you chop down trees. Which it at least something, but I can't say that's worth the effort. Follower stuff aside, there's a few other mant stuff that I don't quite get. Giant Grubs - What's the purpose of these? Originally I thought they were meant to be a predator of the mants to keep their numbers in check but that doesn't seem to be the case. One will occasional surface and then promptly be killed by the mants so they're not even a threat to the player. Honey Chests - I love the fact that you can turn nectar into honey, I just wish the mants would do it too. So much of Hamlet feels so alive with things such as the glowfly cycle or the ever-evolving flytraps, but the mant hills just feel so desolate and boring. Pig Hostility - I found it odd that pigs nor mants attempt to combat one another. The staked pig heads around the hills gave off the impression that they had conflict, and their hostility toward nearby players seemed to suggest hostility to all. Yet... nothing. Also, gameplay reasons aside... if the mant queen doesn't produce the drones what purpose do they have? They create guards to protect themselves... but that seems to be it, bahahaha. So what do you guys think? Have you messed with mants at all, and what are you thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duxe Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 Ooohoo a good discussion to be had! [Also please excuse my brain, it hops from one thing to the next so quickly, there is sooo much getting sidetracked in this.] I agree with the the post, it all seems like excessive effort for a lot of lackluster result, currently. The first time I got it all done [the armor pieces and obtained the pheromone stone] the very first thing I did was run to the queen [and the warriors too but mainly her] to see if the stone allowed for any special interaction with them. Sadly it did nothing.Chopping Trees - I find this part actually quite funny. You have to do all of that to get the mants to help you to chop trees but the pigs have halberds [with which you can literally chop trees] AND in all the other games they help you chop, but Mr. fancy pants civil pig guard over here thinks its beneath him. Giant Grub - My thoughts around this guy is that he exists to deter players from using the Mant Hill as a base. The mant hill is way too convenient without this guy spawning. If you clear a room, it stays empty. There's free permanent light inside. The mant hills are the wormholes of this game, so its like your living inside a cave that links all the wormholes together in a sense and you can just pop out at any entrance with little effort. The sanity effects of day/night/dusk are the same as being outside [aside: I really think this needs to change. Especially when you consider they are the wormholes of the game and those cost sanity in the other versions and I don't think the earthquake mechanic in here outweighs this, as a matter of fact, I'm not certain I like that mechanic, at first I thought it was neat but now thinking about it I feel like I might find it a nuisance later and just an annoying time waster -unless- 1) the mant hills connect to the Roc cave or 2) the earthquakes cause things to regenerate inside the mant hill (excuse my ignorance if this already happens, I don't know)] As a matter of fact, while writing this I hopped on to test something, I was hoping the giant grub's aoe would destroy structures - it does not - which makes sense because it wouldn't be good if it destroyed the lights and honey chests/combs. Haven't pondered this enough to feel a certain way about that. Honey/Hostility - I enjoy your idea about the Mants making honey for themselves and as for the hostility, I felt the same way about the pig heads on stakes. It made it seem like they were aggressive towards the pig race (I actually did not know they weren't till I read this). ~~~ As for my thoughts:Hostility - There may be something in the works with this already. We know that when the Aporkalypse season happens the mants get sort of war-paint like markings on them, so maybe the idea is that in this season they get super aggressive and go up to fight for the surface against the pig overlords. Pheromone Stone - What I very much hope happens with this is that the queen will have special interactions available if you have the stone. (I believe the warriors and she both attack you when you the mant armor on now?) What I'm dying for them to add with this is quests from the queen. Not like you go up to her directly and she's like BRAVE HERO and then a quest menu appears in your sidebar, but something like: Go up to the queen with the phero-stone. She is shouting to the drones to get something done - say something like: "The grubs are multiplying too quickly! My drones, decimate them!" You go and kill grubs. After a certain amount she is satisfied and maybe there's something special that occurs that notifies you of this, maybe the mants chitter and have something like "The queen... krit... is calm." appear over their heads. You go back to her room and she gives you a reward for doing the quest. As for what I'm hoping the reward would be: Blueprints. I would really love if she gave you the blueprint for the honey lamps and the honey chests. The honey combs that spawn the mants could be a reward too because in other games you can make the rabbit hutches and pig houses and whatnot, so why not the combs here too? [Also, it would be cool if you couldn't make bee hives in this game but instead had to make chests on the surface and have some creature interact with them to refill the nectar in them and make honey for you, maybe butterflies? idk.] Now that I write this I'm starting to see so many possibilities for the quests. Kill grubs. Kill pig people. Kill anything she wants you to really. Bring her food. Bring her mants food/supplies. And if you got blueprints from her along the questlines, build x amount of lamps or chests or combs in the mant hills. Fall down a hole with me: Spoiler OH MY GOD - the ultimate thing (jeeeeeez I'm spiraling here) What if the plan is to really have the two races be hostile to each other as indicated by the stakes and then her final quest was given to you exclusively DURING THE APORKALYPSE and it was for you to assassinate Queen Alfalfa [EVEN THE ANCIENT HERALD COULDN'T HAVE KNOWN THE MANT QUEENS SINISTER PLANS!] and the mant queen would give you the key to the city for completing this quest and say something that indicated she wants you to freely build pig cities so you can increase the amount of pigs the mants can cull for their own sustenance. She could also give you the same item Alfalfa gives you for bringing the scepter to her instead. Okay. Okay... maybe that's a bit of a stretch. TLDR: I hope the mant queen gives quests that reward you with blueprints for the mant decorations. Or the bare minimum some phero-stone queen interaction that yields some useful item. 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metallichydra Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 12 hours ago, Duxe said: Ooohoo a good discussion to be had! [Also please excuse my brain, it hops from one thing to the next so quickly, there is sooo much getting sidetracked in this.] I agree with the the post, it all seems like excessive effort for a lot of lackluster result, currently. The first time I got it all done [the armor pieces and obtained the pheromone stone] the very first thing I did was run to the queen [and the warriors too but mainly her] to see if the stone allowed for any special interaction with them. Sadly it did nothing.Chopping Trees - I find this part actually quite funny. You have to do all of that to get the mants to help you to chop trees but the pigs have halberds [with which you can literally chop trees] AND in all the other games they help you chop, but Mr. fancy pants civil pig guard over here thinks its beneath him. Giant Grub - My thoughts around this guy is that he exists to deter players from using the Mant Hill as a base. The mant hill is way too convenient without this guy spawning. If you clear a room, it stays empty. There's free permanent light inside. The mant hills are the wormholes of this game, so its like your living inside a cave that links all the wormholes together in a sense and you can just pop out at any entrance with little effort. The sanity effects of day/night/dusk are the same as being outside [aside: I really think this needs to change. Especially when you consider they are the wormholes of the game and those cost sanity in the other versions and I don't think the earthquake mechanic in here outweighs this, as a matter of fact, I'm not certain I like that mechanic, at first I thought it was neat but now thinking about it I feel like I might find it a nuisance later and just an annoying time waster -unless- 1) the mant hills connect to the Roc cave or 2) the earthquakes cause things to regenerate inside the mant hill (excuse my ignorance if this already happens, I don't know)] As a matter of fact, while writing this I hopped on to test something, I was hoping the giant grub's aoe would destroy structures - it does not - which makes sense because it wouldn't be good if it destroyed the lights and honey chests/combs. Haven't pondered this enough to feel a certain way about that. Honey/Hostility - I enjoy your idea about the Mants making honey for themselves and as for the hostility, I felt the same way about the pig heads on stakes. It made it seem like they were aggressive towards the pig race (I actually did not know they weren't till I read this). ~~~ As for my thoughts:Hostility - There may be something in the works with this already. We know that when the Aporkalypse season happens the mants get sort of war-paint like markings on them, so maybe the idea is that in this season they get super aggressive and go up to fight for the surface against the pig overlords. Pheromone Stone - What I very much hope happens with this is that the queen will have special interactions available if you have the stone. (I believe the warriors and she both attack you when you the mant armor on now?) What I'm dying for them to add with this is quests from the queen. Not like you go up to her directly and she's like BRAVE HERO and then a quest menu appears in your sidebar, but something like: Go up to the queen with the phero-stone. She is shouting to the drones to get something done - say something like: "The grubs are multiplying too quickly! My drones, decimate them!" You go and kill grubs. After a certain amount she is satisfied and maybe there's something special that occurs that notifies you of this, maybe the mants chitter and have something like "The queen... krit... is calm." appear over their heads. You go back to her room and she gives you a reward for doing the quest. As for what I'm hoping the reward would be: Blueprints. I would really love if she gave you the blueprint for the honey lamps and the honey chests. The honey combs that spawn the mants could be a reward too because in other games you can make the rabbit hutches and pig houses and whatnot, so why not the combs here too? [Also, it would be cool if you couldn't make bee hives in this game but instead had to make chests on the surface and have some creature interact with them to refill the nectar in them and make honey for you, maybe butterflies? idk.] Now that I write this I'm starting to see so many possibilities for the quests. Kill grubs. Kill pig people. Kill anything she wants you to really. Bring her food. Bring her mants food/supplies. And if you got blueprints from her along the questlines, build x amount of lamps or chests or combs in the mant hills. Fall down a hole with me: Reveal hidden contents OH MY GOD - the ultimate thing (jeeeeeez I'm spiraling here) What if the plan is to really have the two races be hostile to each other as indicated by the stakes and then her final quest was given to you exclusively DURING THE APORKALYPSE and it was for you to assassinate Queen Alfalfa [EVEN THE ANCIENT HERALD COULDN'T HAVE KNOWN THE MANT QUEENS SINISTER PLANS!] and the mant queen would give you the key to the city for completing this quest and say something that indicated she wants you to freely build pig cities so you can increase the amount of pigs the mants can cull for their own sustenance. She could also give you the same item Alfalfa gives you for bringing the scepter to her instead. Okay. Okay... maybe that's a bit of a stretch. TLDR: I hope the mant queen gives quests that reward you with blueprints for the mant decorations. Or the bare minimum some phero-stone queen interaction that yields some useful item. wow, i really like this idea. please klei, give us a MANT character, we want more mants, and mant-interactions! mants! mants! mants! pigmants? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BionicSandwich Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 they should make webber have a different purpose in this dlc. 1. he is a master of blending in, so he can craft both pig and mant disguises 2. he can understand the mants by default, so he has an easily recruited army like in normal ds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zso17 Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 23 minutes ago, BionicSandwich said: they should make webber have a different purpose in this dlc. 1. he is a master of blending in, so he can craft both pig and mant disguises 2. he can understand the mants by default, so he has an easily recruited army like in normal ds. I believe there are some spiders IRL that disguise themselves as ants, so it really makes sense to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metallichydra Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 52 minutes ago, BionicSandwich said: they should make webber have a different purpose in this dlc. 1. he is a master of blending in, so he can craft both pig and mant disguises 2. he can understand the mants by default, so he has an easily recruited army like in normal ds. how can he understand them? when did he learn their language? or do spiders just understand mants? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Variant Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 7 hours ago, metallichydra said: how can he understand them? when did he learn their language? or do spiders just understand mants? He doesn't in the game, that was a suggestion. But I actually do like the idea of being able to understand them right off the bat. It let's Webber have a perk in such a hostile world. For now, he can't even interact with the pigs until they new hat comes in, AND the pogs all instantly attack him, among with the Spider Apes. He needs an upside! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orian34 Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 1 hour ago, Angel_Octoling said: He doesn't in the game, that was a suggestion. But I actually do like the idea of being able to understand them right off the bat. It let's Webber have a perk in such a hostile world. For now, he can't even interact with the pigs until they new hat comes in, AND the pogs all instantly attack him, among with the Spider Apes. He needs an upside! When Wes, the challenge character is way easier, there's a problem, yeah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Variant Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 2 hours ago, orian34 said: When Wes, the challenge character is way easier, there's a problem, yeah. What's this about a "Challenge" character? You trying to diss our Lord and Savior? Wes is still to this day OP. Spoiler Joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metallichydra Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 8 hours ago, Angel_Octoling said: He doesn't in the game, that was a suggestion. But I actually do like the idea of being able to understand them right off the bat. It let's Webber have a perk in such a hostile world. For now, he can't even interact with the pigs until they new hat comes in, AND the pogs all instantly attack him, among with the Spider Apes. He needs an upside! I meant, what was bionicsandwhich's explanation of why webber should be able to understand them without the stone, or if it was just for balance purposes. marts seem to attack webber on sight, unlike with other characters, but I might be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeklo Posted October 25, 2018 Author Share Posted October 25, 2018 Just now, metallichydra said: marts seem to attack webber on sight, unlike with other characters, but I might be wrong. Mants attack all players but they have an alert state beforehand similar to beefalo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metallichydra Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 Just now, Zeklo said: Mants attack all players but they have an alert state beforehand similar to beefalo. do they also warn webber? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeklo Posted October 25, 2018 Author Share Posted October 25, 2018 3 minutes ago, metallichydra said: do they also warn webber? Lemmie check real quick. Loading... Uhhh... yeah it looks like they straight up attack with no time for a warning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Variant Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 7 hours ago, metallichydra said: I meant, what was bionicsandwhich's explanation of why webber should be able to understand them without the stone, or if it was just for balance purposes. marts seem to attack webber on sight, unlike with other characters, but I might be wrong. 7 hours ago, Zeklo said: Lemmie check real quick. Loading... Uhhh... yeah it looks like they straight up attack with no time for a warning. Actually, yeah, forgot about this. Seems they're upright aggressive with spiders. Does this mean he still shouldn't understand him, though...? They're both bugs, and Webber currently doesn't have many upsides in Hamlet. (Seriously, it's a Man-Ant, do you need logic to justify Webber being able to understand them? Haha!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metallichydra Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 Just now, Angel_Octoling said: Actually, yeah, forgot about this. Seems they're upright aggressive with spiders. Does this mean he still shouldn't understand him, though...? They're both bugs, and Webber currently doesn't have many upsides in Hamlet. (Seriously, it's a Man-Ant, do you need logic to justify Webber being able to understand them? Haha!) have spiders ever understood ants in real life? but yeah, they are both "insect" (real spiders aren't insects, but the constants spiders may be insects) klei, please give webber the abbillity to befriend scorpions! he's quote is even: "hi fellow arachnid", why do they then treat him as an enemy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orian34 Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 If we have the Hamlet, then we need the Brood Nest. Webber's own spider town. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metallichydra Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 how do you kill the womant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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