Sleet Wheet

[Scrappy]

I am just wondering. Is there real reason to grow this plant? 

Obviously it is the one of the best sources of food but I feel it is so difficult there is no point to grow it.

I tried to cool the place down but minimum temperature is 5 degrees Celsius and you need to feed it with water what gives you really little gap before the water freezes.

That wouldn't be a problem but when you bring dirt and dupes constantly running in and out just to tender it room will always keep higher temperature and cooling is almost impossible to reach.

Easy way would be to put it into unmarked cold biome but this biome will eventually heat up and dupes still need to run really far to take care for this plant.

 

If there is any point I could try to fix this situation or some really good tutorial how to set up 96 tile sleet wheet farm I will really like to see it

 

[Mullematsch]

You can easily get wheezeworts of space.

Just spam a few on doors in there and set up an aquatuner which gives you >15C water and you are good. 

[Sasza22]

30 minutes ago, Scrappy said:

Is there real reason to grow this plant?

The issue with it is not that it`s hard to grow but that you can find so much of it growing wildly that there`s almost no point. Just make paths to all the wild sleet wheat and harvest it for free with 0 maintainance. Just keep the biomes cold and filled with proper gasses.

As for maintaining a sleet farm it`s 2 challenges. One is the temperature. Keeping it low enough requires wheezeworts or a dedicated cooling system with radiant pipes filled with sub zero liquids or gasses. Then you also need to make sure your water is cold enough but won`t freeze. Insulated pipes for those.
Second is the dirt. You have a lot of it at the start but by the time you want to switch to sleet you may get low on it. Producing dirt takes a lot of polluted water to sieve or some organics to cook (but then it`s too hot and it takes a while to cool it down). Late game sleet farms are hard to maintain but possible.

[mickaux]

41 minutes ago, Scrappy said:

I tried to cool the place down but minimum temperature is 5 degrees Celsius and you need to feed it with water what gives you really little gap before the water freezes.

Easy way to overcome this issue to cool the plants from below, for example with hydrogen room with worts, and provide water from the top in insulated pipes. I usually choose one of AETN for a sleet farm and with 20 plants (enough for pepper bread for 8 dupes) located above, I barely need to control the temperature, which is about -2 - 2 degrees, although I pump regular 40C water from a sieve.

@Sasza22 is right though, as you need "only" 4 times more wheat for the same purpose, and you don't need to worry about anything. Just need to be careful digging out ice biome, I guess.

BTW, sleet wheat be can't planted "wild", like wheezewort, can it?

[Man in the Mist]

Another option is to put ice in a heat dump room with a liquid pump ready to grab the water when the ice melts.

[Technoincubus]

Establishing a system that could blow up because water will freeze is not worth it. Just use wild ones and farm other food. Tried it several times and all this broken pipes made me forget about wheat.

[Neotuck]

1 hour ago, Scrappy said:

I tried to cool the place down but minimum temperature is 5 degrees Celsius and you need to feed it with water what gives you really little gap before the water freezes.

Use insulated pipes and as long as the water doesn't freeze in the pipes you should be fine, water inside the hydroponic farm won't freeze even if it's temp goes below 0C

Here's the best 96 tile fully automatic greenhouse I have been able to make late game (room 32x3 = 30 hydroponic tiles)

farm station in the middle for shortest run time by dupe farmer

thermo sensor opens the mech doors under the wheeze warts to turn them off at -20C

2 visco-gel airlocks with vacuum between maintains a perfect thermal lock

gas pressure controls the gas shut-off valve maintaining air pressure at 1000g

sweepers supply dirt and fertilizer as well as pick up any harvested sleet wheat grains

Both the water and O2 input is at a comfortable 20C and doesn't need to be pre cooled

 

4 minutes ago, Technoincubus said:

Establishing a system that could blow up because water will freeze is not worth it. Just use wild ones and farm other food. Tried it several times and all this broken pipes made me forget about wheat.

you don't have to pre cool the water, only the hydroponic tile needs to be cool

[RonEmpire]

cooling isn't too much of the issue.

dirt is really the big challenge and bottle neck.

 

[silverbluep]

 It seems like the problem is dirt, people used to not have issues building wheat farms before they needed dirt. But there is now the molecular forge, and dirt can be brought from space too.

Also it makes no sense,  they are native to a biome without dirt. Now if they needed snow, and there was a way to produce snow, I would understand.

They should pass the dirt requirement to bristle blossoms; they are too easy to grow for that high quality food.

[Neotuck]

2 minutes ago, RonEmpire said:

cooling isn't too much of the issue.

dirt is really the big challenge and bottle neck.

 

Easy to make a dirt cooker now with the robo-miner

[RonEmpire]

Just now, Neotuck said:

Easy to make a dirt cooker now with the robo-miner

you're talking slime farm and cooking it?    gak. that's laggy.  need a ton of morph and a ton of pufts.

I was thinking and wondering...

Would it just make more sense to have a bristle blossom farm sealed up in a room  where you don't harvest it and let all the stuff become polluted dirt and then sweep that into a compost pile.    so the only cost really is the water- and power to light it and sweep it out.   the room will get a lot of pollution built up as well which can be used to feed pufts as a side by product.

dupes working on the flipping part is the only manual labor but that helps them build up some strength.

 

[Neotuck]

10 minutes ago, RonEmpire said:

you're talking slime farm and cooking it?    gak. that's laggy.  need a ton of morph and a ton of pufts.

I was thinking and wondering...

Would it just make more sense to have a bristle blossom farm sealed up in a room  where you don't harvest it and let all the stuff become polluted dirt and then sweep that into a compost pile.    so the only cost really is the water- and power to light it and sweep it out.   the room will get a lot of pollution built up as well which can be used to feed pufts as a side by product.

dupes working on the flipping part is the only manual labor but that helps them build up some strength.

 

An interesting idea though you don't have to worry about polluted oxygen if your sweepers are set to rot piles.  Those don't off gas polluted oxygen until they turn into polluted dirt

Personally I like to use a pair of water sieves to produce dirt.  But then again I have a pair of slush geysers on my map so that option might not be for everyone

[RonEmpire]

I suppose just a deoxidizer could help with producing clay.  the amount of pollution is so low - the power to pump it isn't worth it.
 

having 2 slush helps a lot. lol  but yea. don't have that luxury.  I only have one slush.      using sieve to produce dirt is definitely for sure.  just not enough polluted water to funnel it. unless u lock a guy up in a room and make him wash his hands over and over picking up polluted dirt

seeds can be compost as well for dirt.

[Neotuck]

Cooking slime into dirt isn't a bad idea for it would take hundreds of Cycles to go through all the slime on your map before having to rely on ranching puffs

Unless you're planning to farm mushrooms or distill algae

[RonEmpire]

using algae for breeding fish.

[Neotuck]

 

10 minutes ago, RonEmpire said:

using algae for breeding fish

I keep em wild

[RonEmpire]

fishes are great for breeding since  can leave alone the tamed egg one  and it replaces it self.    it cant starve itself out.

 

[crypticorb]

2 hours ago, Neotuck said:

An interesting idea though you don't have to worry about polluted oxygen if your sweepers are set to rot piles.  Those don't off gas polluted oxygen until they turn into polluted dirt

Personally I like to use a pair of water sieves to produce dirt.  But then again I have a pair of slush geysers on my map so that option might not be for everyone

Do two water sieves produce enough dirt to keep up with your 30 plant farm?

I typically like to be prepared with info before I start a massive build to produce a bottleneck resource. I've lost a couple asteroids betting all my dupes effort in a project succeeding, and entering the spiral of death when all the resources run out if it fails.

The key points is how much dirt does a sieve make per cycle, and is it enough to feed at least 10 sleet wheat plants? Are the compost piles 1:1 conversion? How many dupes do you sustain with your fertilized 30-tile farm?

[Neotuck]

 

58 minutes ago, crypticorb said:

Do two water sieves produce enough dirt to keep up with your 30 plant farm?

I typically like to be prepared with info before I start a massive build to produce a bottleneck resource. I've lost a couple asteroids betting all my dupes effort in a project succeeding, and entering the spiral of death when all the resources run out if it fails.

The key points is how much dirt does a sieve make per cycle, and is it enough to feed at least 10 sleet wheat plants? Are the compost piles 1:1 conversion?

Ok with 2 slush geysers plus all other sources of PW (bathrooms, generators, carbon skimmers) I maintain a minimum 10Kg/s of PW

1 sieve can handle 5kg/s PW and produce 200g/s PD assuming it always has a fresh supply of sand or regolith

With 2 sieves I have 400g/s PD

A compost pile turns PD into Dirt at 1:1 at a rate of 100g/s so I use 4 (normally I build 5-6 to handle extra compostables)

both the water sieves and compost piles must be in a pressurized room of at lest 1.8kg to ensure no PO off gassing 

Now there is 400g/s dirt (or more) available OR 240Kg per cycle

1 sleet wheat needs 5Kg dirt per cycle so for 30 you need 150Kg

This leaves 90Kg (or more depending on what else you compost) for fertilizer makers 

58 minutes ago, crypticorb said:

How many dupes do you sustain with your fertilized 30-tile farm?

With Farmer's Touch sleet wheat grows in 9 cycles, but there is always a delay depending on how many dupes are farming plus running time so lets add 2 cycles to compensate for dupe error

At 11 cycles we have 30 sleet wheat harvested at 18 grains each

This is 49 sleet wheat grain per cycle average (or more if you have good farmers)

For frost buns this yields 19600 kcal per cycle

For pepper bread this also yields 19600 kcal per cycle (use wild pinchas as it's unlikely you have any PW to spare)

For berry sludge this yields 39200 kcal per cycle (with 10kg/s water from the sieves you should have no problem farming the bristle berries)

So in conclusion

If you can supply 10Kg PW to a pair of water sieves you can support an average of 40 dupes with berry sludge (plus extra from meat, eggs, leftover berries, and wild pincha peppers)

and as a bonus berry sludge never spoils! 

[Neotuck]

AND Just FYI 40 dupes produce 1872kg PW per cycle from lavatories, sinks, and showers.

That's 3.12kg/s average so you only need to produce 6.88kg/s PW from other sources 

good luck 

[crypticorb]

2 minutes ago, Neotuck said:

AND Just FYI 40 dupes produce 1872kg PW per cycle from lavatories, sinks, and showers.

That's 3.12kg/s average so you only need to produce 6.88kg/s PW from other sources 

good luck 

That's surprisingly sustainable. I have 2 slush geysers, and typically don't take on more than 16 dupes, so using sieves continuously with regolith, that is a surprisingly easy way to destroy ludicrous amounts of heat, make dirt, fertilizer, sleet wheat, and loads of water.

Too much water.

[Neotuck]

26 minutes ago, crypticorb said:

Too much water.

now you see why I laugh when people tell me my builds use too much water or generate too much heat 

37 minutes ago, Neotuck said:

AND Just FYI 40 dupes produce 1872kg PW per cycle from lavatories, sinks, and showers.

That's 3.12kg/s average so you only need to produce 6.88kg/s PW from other sources 

good luck 

Also 40 dupes exhale 80g/s CO2.  Run that though a skimmer and you get 266.6g/s PW

Add that for a total of 3.38kg/s PW!!!

now you are down to needing 6.62Kg/s PW from other sources! 

[yoakenashi]

I had a setup that used cold water for both cool the room and irrigating the hydroponic farm tiles. One trick here is to ensure the water continuously circulates to prevent hot spots from occurring. As you can see from my screenshot, most of the water is recycled; new water is coming in from the left via radiant liquid pipe.

This setup also uses polluted water, since this was implemented before they changed the pH2O specific heat.

Just under the aquatuner is a liquid pipe thermo sensor, ensuring the water never goes below -1°C and thus preventing the pH2O from freezing.

Barely visible in the screenshot, I also had a conveyor of dirt running through this cooling pool, so my dirt entered the farm at 1-3°C.

I had this working for 68 sleet wheat, but when I expanded it by another 34 wheat it broke. I couldn't pull out enough heat with just one aquatuner, 40°C supply water, and 75°C dirt.

[crypticorb]

1 minute ago, yoakenashi said:

I had a setup that used cold water for both cool the room and irrigating the hydroponic farm tiles. One trick here is to ensure the water continuously circulates to prevent hot spots from occurring. As you can see from my screenshot, most of the water is recycled; new water is coming in from the left via radiant liquid pipe.

This setup also uses polluted water, since this was implemented before they changed the pH2O specific heat.

Just under the aquatuner is a liquid pipe thermo sensor, ensuring the water never goes below -1°C and thus preventing the pH2O from freezing.

Barely visible in the screenshot, I also had a conveyor of dirt running through this cooling pool, so my dirt entered the farm at 1-3°C.

I had this working for 68 sleet wheat, but when I expanded it by another 34 wheat it broke. I couldn't pull out enough heat with just one aquatuner, 40°C supply water, and 75°C dirt.

Other than the starting biome dirt, what did you use to source dirt? Do you use a complex dirt boiler?

[yoakenashi]

1 minute ago, crypticorb said:

Other than the starting biome dirt, what did you use to source dirt? Do you use a complex dirt boiler?

Good question. I had 3 water sieves running with 14 composts, all powered by autosweepers (nope, didn't crunch the numbers). While I had a rather large supply of pH2O from the 2 slush geysers in this world, I was very worried about making polluted water with this design and keeping up with the dirt demands. That's when I realized that I can make more pH2O with carbon skimmers than I could with slicksters. But since my farm broke, all of my duplicants starved to death before I could implement a better polluted water making design.

Of course, after all this I started free ranging my sleet wheat. Unfortunately it is not enough when you're running 75 duplicants. Yes, I have a problem, haha.