Please Change WX's quotes for Pigman Miner

[Bluegeist]

Their quote for a Pigman Miner is "CHATTEL THAT TOILS IN THE MINES" and "NONFUNCTIONING CHATTEL" (when the miner is sleeping). The word "chattel" makes me think of chattel slavery, which is the name for, what Wikipedia calls it, "the most extreme form of slavery". It seems in poor taste and really creeps me out.

I know WX is supposed to be the villainous character, but I think you can change this and still keep them in-character. Like laborer?

[watermelen671]

9 hours ago, Bluegeist said:

Their quote for a Pigman Miner is "CHATTEL THAT TOILS IN THE MINES" and "NONFUNCTIONING CHATTEL" (when the miner is sleeping). The word "chattel" makes me think of chattel slavery, which is the name for, what Wikipedia calls it, "the most extreme form of slavery". It seems in poor taste and really creeps me out.

I know WX is supposed to be the villainous character, but I think you can change this and still keep them in-character. Like laborer?

This IS the Medieval times dude. Chattel slavery was rampant during that time. 

However I do suppose that they can change it so that WX calls them Serfs.

Spoiler

https://www.britannica.com/topic/serfdom

However serfdom is more applicable to agriculture.

They could also be relabeled as bonded laborers.

Spoiler

Also, I don't see it mentioned how chattel slavery is "the most extreme form of slavery".

I don't see the need to bleach away the fact that, IN THE MEDIEVAL ERA, people were...less than civilized than how we are today. And it's not even like Colonialism racial slavery, because most of the time, it was the lower classes in general that were enslaved during this era, not just one race.

[Netalula]

In my honest opinion, I think the following sentence should be incorporated: "Swine that toils in the mines." 

1 hour ago, watermelen671 said:

This IS the Medieval times dude

You're talking about a game where one of the characters is a humanoid-ish robot (and even the ones we have today aren't as advanced as WX), the characters get transported to a mysterious land through magical portal and frogs can punch you with their tongues. 

We're not really worried about historical realism right now. Not only that, but bipedal pigs who wear hats and dresses? Like I said, not worried about realism. 

[watermelen671]

1 minute ago, Netalula said:

In my honest opinion, I think the following sentence should be incorporated: "Swine that toils in the mines." 

You're talking about a game where one of the characters is a humanoid-ish robot (and even the ones we have today aren't as advanced as WX), the characters get transported to a mysterious land through magical portal and frogs can punch you with their tongues. 

We're not really worried about historical realism right now. Not only that, but bipedal pigs who wear hats and dresses? Like I said, not worried about realism. 

True, but if that's the case, then why are people up in a huff about the slavery of fictitious bipedal pigs?

[Netalula]

It's not slavery of bipedal pigs. It's mostly just the terminology and slavery in general. You have to remember that it's a very fragile topic for a lot of people, and chattel was used as a slur for a really long time. 

For some African-Americans it could possibly make them feel that pigs being referred to as chattel puts them on the same level of human slaves. 

Also i don't think it's accurate terminology regardless, because I'm pretty sure the miners aren't slaves? I haven't played enough of HAMLET to pay attention but that''s just my overview.

[Lepeightl]

Slavery has been a thing for a very, very long time in human history, and we'll have to deal with that. Exchanging terms like 'slavery', 'chattel' etc. with nicer sounding words feels more like a cover-up than an acknowledgement of its cruelty and senselessness.

I'm sure that the people who'd like to exchange that term have good intentions. I just feel like trying not to mention terrible actions of human society doesn't protect people in the long term. Not mentioning or talking about them might rather make us eventually forget about the reasons why they should never occur again, and therefore might pave the way for something similar to happen in the future.

It's a good sign if being reminded of slavery makes us feel uncomfortable, but in my opinion, we have to endure rather than avoid that.

[Lumina]

This reasoning is great for History book, not for a game that have absolutely no need to have slavery in it, or terms related to slavery.

 

I do feel that words that are too out of context don't help to see the terrible action of human society about slavery. If the purpose of the game was to help freeing the poor pigs that have to work in the mine, maybe this could be something that would play a role about discussing "terrible actions of human society". In this context, it's not the case.

In fact, it could even have the effect of making the word less powerful. First, because a lot of people speaking another language will have no reason to think that this word is terrible or linked to terrible things, because again, there is no context helping for this. This is true for some native english speaker, that will discover the word out of context (young people, for example), or will not see all the implication.

 

1 hour ago, Lepeightl said:

It's a good sign if being reminded of slavery makes us feel uncomfortable, but in my opinion, we have to endure rather than avoid that.

Honestly, a lot of people with this line of action are people that don't really have to endure it at all in their daily life. I'm not saying it's your case.

But not everyone is uncomfortable. Some will not care, some have no empathy. What will be the benefit ? There is none.

Some will be in pain, stressed, or even anxious. Because for them, it's not just an "unconfortable" subject, it's a part of their history, it's already real, and they don't need a reminder in a game like Don't Starve. What will be the benefit ? Again, there is none.

 

Should people be hurted and endure stress because some people (how many) will maybe be "unconfortable", with maybe no benefit at all here anyway ?

For something that will not help at all really discussing the subject in a proper way, that will help to learn stuff about it ?

 

Video games are here for a lot of reasons. Strong reasons could be to change ideas, decompress, relax, have fun. Strong subjects, delicate subjects, have their place in games. But not in all games, and not any way. Here, the reasons to maintain the word that some players are invoking seem dubious to me. It seems more, to me, that people want to keep things as they are, not because this will be good, but because it's easier, finding excuses rather than really think about slavery. Because when we really think about slavery, well, it seems to me that we should rather avoid using words related to it lightly.

Again, some sensible subjects can be mentioned in games. Some games revolve around difficult concepts. But this require a lot more deepth usually than two sentences, and i don't have the feeling that it was the intend for Klei to interact really with this kind of topic.

 

I hope that the position of Klei will be different than some i can see in this topic, because i do think that there is no need right now for this word. I understand the idea was probably to show how WX is soulless and don't care about living being, but there are other way to do this that would be better, in my opinion.

[Zhuzha]

Dear lord, this is ridiculous. A lot of people in history died of starvation, and there are still people dying of it to this day. Should we change the name of the game in case it might offend someone?

[Lumina]

Well, it's not really ok to invent example of things that could never happen to justify letting stuff that could easily be changed in place.

Also, Don't Starve is the identity of the game, it's understandable that it's hard to change and it's also a pretty big warning too : if for a reason or another you feel that a game about starvation is something that you should avoid or don't want to play, it's easy to avoid it. Because it's, like, you know, the title of the game.

 

Slavery isn't a part of the identity of Don't Starve, and you don't really expect it to be a part of it when seeing the game, so it could take people by surprise. So of course, this is only some small sentences, so what is the problem in changing them in a lighter way ? Why some people are investing that many efforts just to keep this into the game ?

[CarlZalph]

Let's be honest here.  Words are words and context is everything in how they are used.

WX isn't calling you some slave or whatever.  Please stop taking offense at anything you see because word X was involved.

[Zhuzha]

52 minutes ago, Lumina said:

Well, it's not really ok to invent example of things that could never happen to justify letting stuff that could easily be changed in place.

I'd say, both a victim of slavery and a victim of starvation playing Hamlet and getting offended seem equally unlikely. Hell, not even that, we're not talking just about a victim of slavery playing the game. We're talking about a victim of chattel slavery playing the game as WX, clicking "Examine" on a specific mob and getting offended. Don't know about you, but to me that sound's like a thing that will, no doubt, definitely happen numerous times.

1 hour ago, Lumina said:

Slavery isn't a part of the identity of Don't Starve, and you don't really expect it to be a part of it when seeing the game, so it could take people by surprise.

Neither are arson, kidnapping, graverobbing, animal cruelty and a lot of other things. Let's advocate for removing everything that might in theory make someone even slightly uncomfortable from the game, unless it's mentioned in the title.

59 minutes ago, Lumina said:

So of course, this is only some small sentences, so what is the problem in changing them in a lighter way ? Why some people are investing that many efforts just to keep this into the game ?

If it's such an insignificant part of the game, then why some people are investing so much effort into removing it?

[Lumina]

Because removing it cause less harm than letting it in. Well, anyway i think i said everything i have to say about it, will not post anymore here.

[HaloFTheSun1]

The game is based in the 1900s.  And how would it cause harm? Because it will upset like two people who gets the reference? I think it shouldn't be changed as it might be a reflection on the characters personality.  Not everyone is nice and some people are cold a hole like a damn robot.