alechemi Posted September 24, 2018 Share Posted September 24, 2018 I noticied that there is no phase change latent heat in the game: 1000kg 200*C water turns instantly into the same amount of steam at the same temperature. This is not how real physics works: if you forget a pot full of water on the fire, it will take a long time to turn to gas. Latent heat is what makes our world habitable, and imo adding it to Oni would add depth at a low implementation cost (no need for full steam pressure diagram). If the one-element-per-tile makes too hard a realistic behaviour, phase change should at least absorb/release a significant amount of energy from nearby cells. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/95833-status-change-energy/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neotuck Posted September 24, 2018 Share Posted September 24, 2018 Game is laggy enough Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/95833-status-change-energy/#findComment-1087135 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoma_Nosme Posted September 24, 2018 Share Posted September 24, 2018 Word Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/95833-status-change-energy/#findComment-1087136 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zarquan Posted September 24, 2018 Share Posted September 24, 2018 As far as I know, latent heat is already taken in to account to a certain extent. When water turns to steam, I believe it loses about 5 C. Also, if you had liquid water at 200 C IRL, it would boil very quickly. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/95833-status-change-energy/#findComment-1087144 Share on other sites More sharing options...
alechemi Posted September 24, 2018 Author Share Posted September 24, 2018 It would boil quickly and about 10-20% would turn to steam, gas taking away most of the energy and leaving the remaining below boiling point, if not cold. It takes approximately 5 times more energy to turn 1kg boiling water to steam than to heat it from 0C to 100C. That's what provides energy for thunderstorms and hurricanes, and the reason why most of Earth surface is always near the range of liquid water despite the day/night cycle. Yet I admit having a proper liquid/gas equilibrium, while being extremely cool, could become computationally unbearable. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/95833-status-change-energy/#findComment-1087151 Share on other sites More sharing options...
psusi Posted September 24, 2018 Share Posted September 24, 2018 Status Phase Change. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/95833-status-change-energy/#findComment-1087176 Share on other sites More sharing options...
goatt Posted September 25, 2018 Share Posted September 25, 2018 that'll be fun Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/95833-status-change-energy/#findComment-1087295 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueLance Posted September 25, 2018 Share Posted September 25, 2018 18 hours ago, Zarquan said: As far as I know, latent heat is already taken in to account to a certain extent. When water turns to steam, I believe it loses about 5 C. Also, if you had liquid water at 200 C IRL, it would boil very quickly. It also depends on the pressure, at lower pressures it boils quicker if i remember correctly. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/95833-status-change-energy/#findComment-1087303 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zarquan Posted September 25, 2018 Share Posted September 25, 2018 4 hours ago, BlueLance said: It also depends on the pressure, at lower pressures it boils quicker if i remember ycorrectly. Yes, but pressure isn't really a factor in the game. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/95833-status-change-energy/#findComment-1087369 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellshound38 Posted September 25, 2018 Share Posted September 25, 2018 It is also dependent on how the kinetic energy is distributed. If every molecule had a temp of 200c it would function differently then the entire contents simply having an average temp of 200c Which means you can't accurately sim the physics of how water would boil until you do it at the molecular level. Which is not realistic for the scale of the sim, and also why arguing realism is pointless. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/95833-status-change-energy/#findComment-1087373 Share on other sites More sharing options...
psusi Posted September 25, 2018 Share Posted September 25, 2018 1 hour ago, Hellshound38 said: If every molecule had a temp of 200c it would function differently then the entire contents simply having an average temp of 200c Which means you can't accurately sim the physics of how water would boil until you do it at the molecular level. No. Temperature is, by definition, the average kinetic energy. That's all you care about. The only part that the game is missing is pressure affecting the temperature at which the phase change happens. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/95833-status-change-energy/#findComment-1087401 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellshound38 Posted September 25, 2018 Share Posted September 25, 2018 32 minutes ago, psusi said: No. Temperature is, by definition, the average kinetic energy. That's all you care about. The only part that the game is missing is pressure affecting the temperature at which the phase change happens. Yes for estimating and most real world applications it is good enough, to be 100% accurate you have to sim every molecule. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/95833-status-change-energy/#findComment-1087417 Share on other sites More sharing options...
psusi Posted September 25, 2018 Share Posted September 25, 2018 1 hour ago, Hellshound38 said: Yes for estimating and most real world applications it is good enough, to be 100% accurate you have to sim every molecule. No; if it's good enough for the real world, that's as good as it gets. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/95833-status-change-energy/#findComment-1087454 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueLance Posted September 26, 2018 Share Posted September 26, 2018 16 hours ago, Zarquan said: Yes, but pressure isn't really a factor in the game. Yeah I know, but I was just stating how they can't put everything in unfortunately. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/95833-status-change-energy/#findComment-1087603 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImpalerWrG Posted September 26, 2018 Share Posted September 26, 2018 On 9/24/2018 at 1:02 PM, Neotuck said: Game is laggy enough People who are not programmers should not pretend they know the performance impact of ANY feature or suggestion. Also this whole thread belongs in Suggestions forum. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/95833-status-change-energy/#findComment-1087605 Share on other sites More sharing options...
InternetGuy Posted September 26, 2018 Share Posted September 26, 2018 2 hours ago, ImpalerWrG said: People who are not programmers should not pretend they know the performance impact of ANY feature or suggestion. Also this whole thread belongs in Suggestions forum. I agree with you. To everyone else, what the game lacks is tracking the enthalpy of a substance. I admit, it does this by manifesting it via temperature change but there are enthalpy changes within a substance that don't manifest as change in temperature but instead a phase change. This would definitely require more calculation. I calculated them and made my head overheat. Give this to a computer that's running a laggy game, make a camp fire. I agree with the suggestion of emulating enthalpy change during a phase change by only changing a portion of the substance. I believe the devs are doing their best here. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/95833-status-change-energy/#findComment-1087623 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neotuck Posted September 26, 2018 Share Posted September 26, 2018 5 hours ago, ImpalerWrG said: People who are not programmers should not pretend they know the performance impact of ANY feature or suggestion. Also this whole thread belongs in Suggestions forum. A fair point but my comment was more of a joke and I didn't intend for it to be taken seriously Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/95833-status-change-energy/#findComment-1087657 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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