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95%+ per cycle throughput electrolyzer with only 2 pumps, no doors


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For ages people have been trying to seperate hydrogen from oxygen during Electrolyzer production using a layer of hydrogen above the Electrolyzer, to never quite decent results i.e maximum efficiency.

The thing is though with the new element sensor and the crazy cheap 10w gas shutoff this is no longer the case.

Electroylyzers theoretical output in a cycle is 67,200g hydrogen and 532,800g Oxygen

This setup gives you 64,000g hydrogen 95%+ and 520,000g Oxygen 96%+

Why it works:

Besides when just starting up where a few packets may reach the bottom pump, hydrogen will always be collected by the top gas pump, which means you can have a single element sensor and gas valve to remove the hydrogen before merging the two pipes of oxygen. Two pipes of oxygen merge with no stoppages in the pipes which would cause the pumps to momentarily switch off losing Electrolyzer efficiency, like what would happen if you merge two pipes with hydrogen and oxygen in.

Gas bridges force a single direction, so when the two oxygen pipes merge the packets go in the right direction.

Electrolyzers theoretically can only produce 1000g/s while two pumps can deal with 1000g/s

Now the downside:

The system if made in a self powering loop does not handle pipe blockages, so would need to be manually restarted, basically you need to get rid of the oxygen and hydrogen as fast as this thing makes it, so a good idea is to dump excess power created by 2 hydrogen generators to a power grid ala like Brothgars design https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njsqMfUYpEk

Here it is - Save file attached:

I tried spaces of both the top and bottom between the electrolyzer and the gas pumps but the most efficient method is to just have then right above and right below like the build on the left hand side.

5ba6554e238b8_OxygenNotIncluded22_09_201815_27_02.thumb.png.f3993df91687f172b4a7e4eb64be01bd.png

The pipe layout, now this is why the thing works in the first place it doesn't have to be exactly the same as this as long as you have a gas bridge on the pipe after the gas shutoff, when the only packets travelling through it will now just be oxygen, this prevents the oxygen packets from the other pipe from trying to go down this one causing it to be blocked.

5ba6555da3759_OxygenNotIncluded22_09_201815_27_23.thumb.png.19153b46b9e6c228c1b4ed2f157a1633.png

The pipe has to follow the example on the right where you have your gas valve, the pipe has to continue past it, if its like the example on the left occasional packets of hydrogen go the wrong way.

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Here it is in action, besides the very first few seconds, hydrogen will always be picked up by the top pump with oxygen, it will be removed with the element seonsor and gas shutoff with no downtime on the pipe, leaving just oxygen in the pipe to merge with the bottom pumps pipe.

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Besides fractional bits of overpressure hence not 100% of theoretical throughput the electrolyzer is nearly constantly putting out 888g/s and 112g/s respectively

5ba655acf3b85_OxygenNotIncluded22_09_201815_31_13.thumb.png.ea42cf28a10a1d25045eb3c5e1e580a3.png

 

And after a cycles worth of production, 3 full 150kg tanks, 53kg in the last tank and 18kg in the pipes

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And 64kg of hydrogen

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Oxygen Not Included 22_09_2018 15_28_37.png

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Merging the two pipes with hydrogen still in like the example below causes the pipes to get backed up and therefore be less efficient. load up the save file and watch how the first two are much much faster than the test on the end.

Oxygen Not Included 22_09_2018 15_32_51.png

Test start.sav

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So your getting exactly 67,200g of hydrogen and 532,800g of oxygen per cycle, not just going on about gas deletion, which that thread seems to be the case.

Which i think youve got confused about Saturnus as a single pump either side cant deal with the output of oxygen from one electrolyzer. ie 532,800g per cycle.

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8 minutes ago, xenoborg said:

So your getting exactly 67,200g of hydrogen and 532,800g of oxygen per cycle, not just going on about gas deletion, which that thread seems to be the case.

Why would I need it? It's irrelevant how much each electrolyzer produces as it only consumes power and water when actively outputting gas. So if you use one, two, or a hundred doesn't matter. What matters is getting 100% mass efficiency.

Furthermore, my set up is by default more power efficient because the all the gas pump always pump only full packets of gas each time unlike your set up which by definition has to pump partial packages of hydrogen which wastes power.

EDIT: Also, shut off valves do not consume power. At all.

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No gas is being deleted from my system, its 100% efficient as yours, the purpose of it is to get as much out of it per cycle as possible, getting a single Electrolyzer to produce enough hydrogen per cycle 64,000g to run a generator which requires 60,000g, rather than needing two like yours. And thats the golden ticket really having a SINGLE electroylyzer feed a hydrogen generator 24/7 with no compression door hacks.

A single electrolyzer is producing a net gain in power, put a few of these in the base, more power for you.

When I say efficient I'm refering to per cycle.

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Again you're missing the point, With a single electrolyzer, im producing 520kg of oxygen a cycle, while producing enough hydrogen to feed a generator for that full cycle, producing 800w while my system requires 610w. Im not wasting power im creating power. With less pumps and less electroylzers than you.

So yeah not wasting power, creating power.

 

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2 minutes ago, xenoborg said:

You need two electrolyzers which can theoretically output 1.776kg/s to output 1kg/s that is not efficient.

Yes. It is. Because you are again missing the point of what efficiency is. Efficiency is not maximized output, it is getting the most output using the least amount of power. It is the W per Kg output that defines efficiency.

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Again..... for the last time it doesn't matter how much power is being wasted by the pumps working 24/7 sending non 500g packets. The system as a whole produces a net gain in power through producing 64kg of hydrogen per cycle more than a generator needs per cycle 60kg, with one Electrolyzer, not two not three, ONE

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I already changed the title just for you saturnus, I'm using the word efficient to refer to the fact i'm getting more efficiency out of a single Electrolyzer in terms of output per cycle than systems like yours that need several.

"Efficiency is the ability to avoid wasting materials, energy, efforts, money, and time in doing something or in producing a desired result. In a more general sense, it is the ability to do things well, successfully, and without waste"

Im using one electrolyzer you need two, that is inefficient. Why are you getting so hung up on terminology that you don't seem to understand yourself.

My electrolyzer is producing more per cycle than one of yours in your system.... do you understand now?

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13 minutes ago, xenoborg said:

Im using one electrolyzer you need two, that is inefficient. Why are you getting so hung up on terminolgy that you don't seem to understand yourself.

You still don't fully understand. An electrolyser in material cost can effectively be broken down into a power cost, and that is effectively zero in this game. If you had limited space available then I could see a point but no map seed (or CPU) can support a fully utilised map anyway so you aren't limited for space. I'm perfectly fine with maximizing outputs but when I do that with electrolyser I use the half-submerged trick instead which is also 100% efficient and even separates gases by itself.

Edit: anyway, the changed title is much more accurate. I have no further comments then.

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Again net gain power, im gaining power from the system, with less materials. That is efficiency. Im throwing 610w 24/7 to gain 800w 24/7. Some people consider that an exploit, like some people considered mechanical doors and exploit, this uses neither for the same effect.

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All the guy has to do is download the save file and run it, most of the time the oxygen packets from the top pump are 500-800g its the bottom one that has less stuff to move because less oxygen gets to it, yet it still more often than not always has 500g packets. But hes still missing the point :/

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6 minutes ago, R9MX4 said:

Every time you have a gas packet that is bigger than 500g, you are gaining power

1.thumb.png.5143799357860be4dabd92e7e57628c8.png

Averagely, the output will be equal to 500g/s.

You are pointing at a packet that is obviously only bigger because the system is backed up by merging pipes ahead of it.

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1 minute ago, Saturnus said:

You are pointing at a packet that is obviously only bigger because the system is backed up by merging pipes ahead of it.

the system doesn't get backed up, download the save file and run it. thats why the thing can make an electrolyzer run at nearly 888g/s 112g/s for a cycle. And then stop spamming what i hoped would be a useful thread for people with your confused antics.

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You two are hilarious. Someone needs to intervene before knives appear (I think we're too late). 

@xenoborg You've done a great job making an electrolyzer setup.  Many like it appear in the forums. Yes, you can get pretty high efficiency. If you are looking for maximum output from one electrolyzer. You save the cost of making one less electrolyzer (a one time savings in materials - and space). You probably have mass deletion, related to this bug, but maybe you don't. It's pretty great for generating oxygen and power. 

@Saturnus Since pumps use power when they pump small packets (wasted energy), and hydroponic tiles consume water even if a plant is not growing (wasted power), and many other things consume resources even when not producing (like coal generators wasting coal - prior to smart batteries - at unbelievable rates), I thought for a long time that the electrolyzer was consuming water even when not in use.  It's a reasonable assumption if you expect a game to be consistent (wish it were - hope it becomes). The setup you pointed too is great.  I love the fact that you noticed the perfect 112/888g missing. Thanks for find. I've come to prefer an open electrolyzer setup (submerged in tiny bits of liquid), since then I save the oxygen pump cost. I trap the hydrogen in a tiny room, so I'll use 1 pump with two electorlyzers, and the pump only sucks in trapped hydrogen with full 500g packets. I keep a different set of pumps nearby to fill atmo suits, and just let the rest of the oxygen flow past my cooling line to pressurize my base. Thanks again for the find on the 112/888g missing stuff. 

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3 minutes ago, Saturnus said:

You are pointing at packets that for the most part is obviously only bigger because the system is backed up by merging pipes ahead of it.

Please do the test by yourself.

If you find your pumps cant reach 100% efficiency when they are submerged in two kinds of gas/liquid with enough mass, please post it in bug tracker.

 

1 minute ago, mathmanican said:

pumps use power when they pump small packets (wasted energy)

Yes, but OP's case is not.

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8 minutes ago, xenoborg said:

the system doesn't get backed up, download the save file and run it. thats why the thing can make an electrolyzer run at nearly 888g/s 112g/s for a cycle. And then stop spamming what i hoped would be a useful thread for people with your confused antics.

I did run the save file and there is a backing up on the merging. I'd advise to use a bridge instead (see picture below).

However, you never yourself claimed 100% output... which by definition again means wasted power because the pumps are not pumping 100% output average 100% of the time.

image.thumb.png.1155942b74418adfa36e801f4d378c0d.png

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2 minutes ago, Saturnus said:

I did run the save file and there is a backing up on the merging. I'd advise to use a bridge instead.

However, you never yourself claimed 100% output... which by definition again means wasted power because the pumps are not pumping 100% output average 100% of the time.

800g packets merge with 500g packets, but theres enough of a gap in the piping from the next packet that needs to be merged that there is zero backlog, which is why it works, which is why i dont merge the two pipes before getting rid of the hydrogen, which would cause a backlog.

For the love of god man it produces a net gain in power through a full hydrogen generator being fed from the thing non stop. so stop with this wasted power when it makes more power than it consumes.

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