Flooding buildings for cooling - which ones work?

[rafker]

On 7/9/2018 at 4:56 PM, martosss said:

Hm, here's a funny idea - What if

• We make a conveyor belt that runs through a pool of water and load it with ice - will that melt and make a nice cold pool of water? Or if we load it with Ice-cold granite from the Antarctic ... should have a similar effect on warm water?

Yeah, I've done it in my build. That works because of how ice melts in this game - depending on its mass. 100 kg in receiver and 20kg(?) on the rail

[Gurgel]

The plastic press works well in about 200kg/tile of water. Best way to cool it I found. Not really "flooding" though.

[heckubis]

6 hours ago, martosss said:

 

 

@heckubis, Why are you using insulated pipes? No Abyssalite? If you do have it, you don't need isolated, just do normal pipes with Abys., they're isolators since abys doesn't transfer heat in a human ilfespan.

the part that will bug you is those are abyssalite insulated pipes

 

[martosss]

Then you might as well build normal ones from A. and save yourself the difference, I think it's 2-2.5 times more expensive, so you can build twice as many pipes.

[heckubis]

 

36 minutes ago, martosss said:

Then you might as well build normal ones from A. and save yourself the difference, I think it's 2-2.5 times more expensive, so you can build twice as many pipes.

yah i could have done that but then id have to look at every piece to see what was not insulated every time and wonder if it was good insulation every time. id rather be able to identify at a glance that the parts are what they are intended to be. i also dont use regular abyssalite tiles i use insulated abyssalite as well. id rather pay now then make mistakes later

[martosss]

4 minutes ago, heckubis said:

 

yah i could have done that but then id have to look at every piece to see what was not insulated every time and wonder if it was good insulation every time. id rather be able to identify at a glance that the parts are what they are intended to be. i also dont use regular abyssalite tiles i use insulated abyssalite as well. id rather pay now then make mistakes later

So how would you distinguish an insulated sandstone pipe from an insulated A. pipe? Or you depend on the default material choice?

OK, here's a pickle - depending on whether you want isolation or radiator you should use granite/igneous rocks/A. ... so how would you distinguish between those, as they need to be the same type of pipe?(either insulated or radiant, actually it doesn't matter which one you make, the material cost is what's important).

Paying a little more attention saves you a lot of resources, i.e. dupe digging,transport,construction time(insulated builds slower?). I use normal pipes only - just hovering over it you can see the material. Just double check before/after(or triple check) you're done and you should be good.

My rule is

• always use A. pipes, unless you're doing radiators - then use igneous rock/granite(depending on gas/solid thermal transfer properties, since igneous rock is better for gas-pipe-gas transfer).
• If you can see the material icon, it's probably granite/igneous rock, if not - it's A, as it's last(sadly, scrolling is so damn broken)

[heckubis]

sorry i like my way. i dont spend refined materials on radiant pipes when i can do the same without them. for me the non insulated pipes are allways radiant pipes allways made from obsidian sandstone or granite.

i pay penty of attention to what im building for the purpose its built and have never run out of abbys.

material costs to me are manageable i tend to use 2 or 3 times the equipment for a job mostly to conserve heat production i slow productions intentionally on things like o2 production and water management and cooling as it ends up more efficient (but yes more in the material )

more then willing to pay more for a better build then cheeping every corner i can 

and what kind of loony would use sandstone for insulated tile you may as well make it a regular tile

[martosss]

30 minutes ago, heckubis said:

sorry i like my way. i dont spend refined materials on radiant pipes when i can do the same without them. for me the non insulated pipes are allways radiant pipes allways made from obsidian sandstone or granite.

Radiant pipes with 50-60 thermal conductivity would matter later in the game if you're cooling/heating other refined metal things + using pipe contents with high thermal conductivity(Petroleum with TC=2 would be a decent example).

30 minutes ago, heckubis said:

i pay penty of attention to what im building for the purpose its built and have never run out of abbys.

If you're paying the attention, then you might as well build normal A.pipes and save yourself the A. for the future generations. If you want to explore the whole map, the A. you have will probably barely be enough, as it's 250/tile and a lot of tiles in-between aren't A.

30 minutes ago, heckubis said:

more then willing to pay more for a better build then cheeping every corner i can 

A practical build with cheap materials might do you more good.

30 minutes ago, heckubis said:

and what kind of loony would use sandstone for insulated tile you may as well make it a regular tile

My point was if you didn't pay attention to the material and accidentally built it with the default - sandstone.

I just recently made a liquid pipe by mistake that connects an air pump to an air vent, then was wondering why it isn't working, so ... everything is possible!

[heckubis]

the "when i can do without them" you apparently skipped over..

loads more then 250 tiles of abbysalite at least on my maps. and only the extreme temps(geysers magma steam boiler)  need abbys for insulated tiles most of the rest of normal temp control is igneous. paying attention lets you look at the buttons your hitting before laying down blocks.

practical from alot of the community is convinced that min\max is efficient in all cases i dont agree lots of them leak heat or power  that could be used or prevented on site with a better build allowing for increases and decreases in demands on the system without shutting them down(prevalent in spoms) and i refuse to rely on wheezewarts unless your in debug you not guaranteed to have a set number so i tend to try and build without them even tho you can automate them

and as i said if your paying attention you dont hit the wrong button hitting the wrong button or not knowing you ran out of that type of material is proof of not paying attention.

at one point in the earlier alpha we could Que up an entire build from not enough resources so long as we had enough to place the first block it would let you place it then it would give you the hundreds of not enough materials till you had enough but the dupes would gather it and bring it as you acquired it ......kinda miss that

[martosss]

15 minutes ago, heckubis said:

loads more then 250 tiles of abbysalite at least on my maps.

I meant that you receive 250 A from a tile when you dig it, not that there are only 250 tiles on the map.

15 minutes ago, heckubis said:

and only the extreme temps(geysers magma steam boiler)  need abbys for insulated tiles most of the rest of normal temp control is igneous. paying attention lets you look at the buttons your hitting before laying down blocks.

If you use normal A. pipe instead of igneous you get pretty close to perfect temperature control, so you should use it if liquid temperature is >5-10° difference than your base, which is almost always the case.

Alternatively, if you use A. insulated pipe, you get the same temperature control, however, when A. starts failing, it fails 2-3 times slower because of the amount used. However, if A. is failing, then A. is not the problem - you just need more cooling.

15 minutes ago, heckubis said:

practical from alot of the community is convinced that min\max is efficient in all cases i dont agree lots of them leak heat or power  that could be used or prevented on site with a better build allowing for increases and decreases in demands on the system without shutting them down(prevalent in spoms) and i refuse to rely on wheezewarts unless your in debug you not guaranteed to have a set number so i tend to try and build without them even tho you can automate them

That part I don't understand, so I'm not going to reply to it.

15 minutes ago, heckubis said:

and as i said if your paying attention you dont hit the wrong button hitting the wrong button or not knowing you ran out of that type of material is proof of not paying attention

That depends on how fast you play and how much a certain thing matters. Obviously a SPOM matters a lot, so you pay a lot of attention to it. But an air pump in the corner of the map pumping a little gas from time to time doesn't matter so much, so you might try to build it faster.

[heckubis]

using igneous pipes for insulated  wouldnt work in most of the areas of my stuff alot of the pipes have slow travel times giving more time for transfer great for the granite pipes not so good for igneous.. since i control volumes in my cooling pipes to less then 200g/s on average transfer happens quicker. alot of the cold lines that feed those  move very very slowly giving too much time for transfer so abbys is the only choice for them or i get luke warm water in my cooling system that snowballs into the o2 cooling and everything else.

if im transferring liquid over distance and im worried about the thermal effects then i will put them in insulated igneous tiles and pipes and not waist abbys.

and yah playing to fast hampers ones attention to details but it wont stop a pause button.

[martosss]

3 minutes ago, heckubis said:

if im transferring liquid over distance and im worried about the thermal effects then i will put them in igneous tiles and pipes and not waist abbys.

putting the in igneous pipes(regardless of type of pipe) will radiate MUCH MUCH more heat than abyssalite, as Abyssalite has 10^(-5) thermal conductivity, so 0.00001 vs 2 for Igneous. Given that usually air has thermal conductivity on the scale of ~-0.1(10^(-1)) and this is what gets counted, igneous pipes will radiate 10 000 times more heat than abyssalyte pipes.

So you should rethink your strategy - Insulated A. pipes = (4x) normal A. pipes = (4x 10000) igneous pipes regarding isolation, so ...  just using abyssalite saves you x4 material and still gives you 10000 better insulation

[heckubis]

I meant insulated tiles and pipes and yes i know it will. but if its a long run i wont be in the area without a suit so the leakage in a travel zone is marginal. yes yes we all know what abbys does for pipes but its not allways needed using it when you dont is not efficient remember? and it wont save me material it only changes what material i use and id rather save the abbys in that case

[martosss]

14 minutes ago, heckubis said:

I meant insulated tiles and pipes and yes i know it will. but if its a long run i wont be in the area without a suit so the leakage in a travel zone is marginal. yes yes we all know what abbys does for pipes but its not allways needed using it when you dont is not efficient remember? and it wont save me material it only changes what material i use and id rather save the abbys in that case

And what do you do when that area warms up and starts leaking heat around it ? Using igneous pipes means it will happen 10 000 times sooner, so especially in a "long" game you should be worried, even if it's a travel zone.

And another point - if you use that "travel space" to build something instead of simply traveling through it you will save dupe time. So investing in Abysalite will make it a usable space and cost you less dupe time vs the alternative - a heat dump that you're afraid to touch later in the game.

[heckubis]

oh i know how the temprature travels and how to mediate it. sometimes all it needs is room sometimes all it needs is to be used. i will build structures for cooking air clean of germs if the temp gets hot and pump that air someplace else after for cooling. if i can leach other heats off it for use along the way i do. but the way i play i dont end up with heat as the killer its boredom. even if all but my base is at 300c id be fine as the main base is cooled and insulated (not abbys) usually sediment i do want the cool my base is making to leak into the surrounding biomes creating a natural anti over heat system that takes no extra energy to run.

keeping your base at a nice 20c-25c from production of o2 will keep it cool and the surrounding areas.

setting up a hydrogen po2 cleaner in your base and you will never ever have heat issues just send some liquid o2 poof no heat(this i use abbys) and really hydrogen blubbers/aspirators are really very easy and can be done with 1 thermal regulator and a small abbysalite storage chamber and a few  a insulated ducts and 2 air pumps 1 valve. you can off put the -200c gas to a radiator that cools anything from that point

[Yucie]

On 7/9/2018 at 1:56 PM, martosss said:

• Tasteful memorial - a proper burial for your fish

One of my duplicants who kept doing stupid things and eventually suffocated themselves earned their memorial in the toilet waste water.  The dupes aren't allowed to mourn over that grave since he deserved it.

I wonder if they talk about him at the water cooler.

[vonVile]

A Slush Geyser works great if you have access to one. All you have to is pass a Radiant Pipe line through the OW the Geyser releases along with a Temp Sensor and liquid cut off. 150F water drops down to 30F almost instantly.

[Gurgel]

13 hours ago, martosss said:

as Abyssalite has 10^(-5) thermal conductivity, so 0.00001 vs 2 for Igneous.

I think since Cosmic Abyssalite has 0.0 thermal conductivity. I did some tests that seem to indicate it is at least lower than 10^-5. As 10^-5 is at best annoying and 0.0 is actually easier to compute, that makes a lot of sense to me.

[martosss]

So 10^(-5) is annoying, but lower than that isn't? And you did some tests or that makes sense to you?

I can tell you for a fact that it isn't flat 0, not sure why you would believe that it's 0. Anyways, if you try building something out of Abyssalite and hover over the Insulator buff it tells you its thermal conductivity, it says 10^(-5) there, so .. trust the game if not me.

[Oozinator]

7 hours ago, martosss said:

So 10^(-5) is annoying, but lower than that isn't? And you did some tests or that makes sense to you?

I can tell you for a fact that it isn't flat 0, not sure why you would believe that it's 0. Anyways, if you try building something out of Abyssalite and hover over the Insulator buff it tells you its thermal conductivity, it says 10^(-5) there, so .. trust the game if not me.

around 0.00001 ?

[martosss]

2 hours ago, Oozinator said:

around 0.00001 ?

What do you mean? That It could be 0.0000152587890625 (2^-16)? Sure, as long as the game doesn't round it. See, that might speed up calculations, as it's an exact power of 2