just a question

[orkivp]

while it has been confimed that all items and chests from the gorge beta will not be transfered to the main game it hasnt been confimed what will happen to the levels you have gained in the beta, will those be transfered to the main game or when the gorge comes out of beta we will need to start from level one.

[Daniel86268]

Quote

We will not be providing any rewards to test this time as it's such a short window.

Taken from https://forums.kleientertainment.com/topic/91724-game-update-272996-gorge-beta/

Essentially nothing will get transfered, and everyone starts the main Gorge from level 0 again.

(Iirc it's also been confirmed by a dev somewhere that everything get's reset this time. Don't remember where though.)

[RancorSnp]

Personally I really do not understand why Klei insists on not letting players keep their earnings from beta. 

It's like : hey, please come and test this for us, make sure everything works all right and look for bugs so the event has no problems when we release it. (Also you won't get anything for it, other than probably less reason to play the actual release later on).

It's not really that big of a deal, though I were quite unhappy when my forge collection of most of the skins, left me with barely anything when having to redo the rng when it came out. But I could understand having to redo the drops considering game balance changed a few times, and there wasn't the final boss (but you got barely any exp, as achievements weren't there)

And again in the case of the Gorge, the beta ran for 2 days. which is very little time, and nobody has reached any considerable level yet (well, not for the time in game at least, achievements did probably quadruple all our levels). Having to redo the achievements will be a pain. But the main release will have character traits. The only reason I could see for wiping the drops would be that they are reverting the time back to 15ish minutes, and it was only extended for the beta only because of lack of the character traits.  If that is the case, then indeed chests acquired in the beta were unfairly received.

Also, I'm pretty sure I'll be in touch with the support team soon anyways, while I didn't confirm it with any other players, klei stated that apparently we were supposed to use beta inventories, unless it's the same inventory server as the forge event and I so happened to have the same amount of spools on the beta server as the main game, I'm pretty sure I'm gonna get my spools wiped when the events goes live  But we'll see we'll see

[Daniel86268]

1 hour ago, RancorSnp said:

But I could understand having to redo the drops considering game balance changed a few times

This and, if they mess up something like someone got lots of skins due to an error, or his inventory got wiped, Klei doesn't have anything to worry about. If they'd bring over all the skins they'd someone have to delete or restore the respective inventories to make it fair for everyone. This is a much simpler and cleaner solution.

1 hour ago, RancorSnp said:

I so happened to have the same amount of spools on the beta server as the main game

Either you actually like you said have the same amount of spools there, or your spool amout is still cached client side, and is a different one server side. (There's been a bug with client side inventory caching, that is supposed to be fixed in the main branch.)

[Rellimarual]

A simple solution to this frustration would be not to play the beta or just to sample it. I love how people on the forums first ***** and moan about how long it’s taking for the beta release for 50 pages, then as soon as it’s out, they’re complaining that they don’t get to keep the rewards, even though this was clearly stated from the beginning.

[RancorSnp]

46 minutes ago, Rellimarual said:

A simple solution to this frustration would be not to play the beta or just to sample it. I love how people on the forums first ***** and moan about how long it’s taking for the beta release for 50 pages, then as soon as it’s out, they’re complaining that they don’t get to keep the rewards, even though this was clearly stated from the beginning.

True, but thing is, testing the beta is doing Klei a favor. We are volunteering to do what people at the companies are paid to do for free.

And the reward you get for helping make sure their content will actually be playable and doesn't require immediate hot fixing and writing an official apology for lack of proper beta testing.  Is having less rewards than players who didn't participate. (As you get bored of the game mode sooner).

The real solution isn't telling people "just don't help" but instead not giving temporary rewards. Let's say I ask you to come and cook at my restaurant for the weekend. And because we have a close enough relationship like that you do agree to do so. Would you prefer me to not give you anything for the work. And then a token of appreciation on monday. Or tell you that you won't keep and any profits and to give you 500$ and take it  away from you on Monday?

But again, while I personally do not care if I keep the drops or not, I really do not see the point of resting levels of the gorge beta, unless it is going to be made more difficult in the actual release. The funniest answer is "The beta period is too short to keep the levels" - what is that supposed to even mean? It is too long would be a valid argument, but too short? You do not earn enough to keep your earnings? There isn't big enough gap between you and a new player to keep it? (Implying that if it was bigger it would be kept).

As I did write in the first impressions thread, as much as this event is great, it has very little replaybility. I probably won't even get to level 30 again,  unless I find something new to achieve, it will be yet another event where I earned more in the beta than I will get to keep, but it doesn't matter as having played don't starve from it's very early beta I only ever play these events anyways.

[orian34]

I think it's because transferring your levels from one branch to another is actually a bit of work.

[Lumina]

4 hours ago, RancorSnp said:

It's like : hey, please come and test this for us, make sure everything works all right and look for bugs so the event has no problems when we release it. (Also you won't get anything for it, other than probably less reason to play the actual release later on).

The thing is : you stated one of the very reason why a beta shouldn't be rewarding. Because people should come if they want to test thing, they shouldn't come because if they come, they will be rewarded. They shouldn't think "if i miss the beta, i will not have this wonderful skin", or something like this, especially for a short beta when even people willing to test could not have time to come (because it's like two days, it's super short).

 

Yes, we do something close than something some people are paid for, testing. Except that we have no obligation. It's like if i come to your restaurant to cook, but my dish burns and i serve it anyway, and suddently i'm bored and go for a walk, or i find that your freezer isn't working anymore, but i don't care and don't tell you this (after all, someone else will, probably). Or i'm not really rigorous and don't see this big problem that any professional would have seen instantly, because well, it's not my job, it's not even a job for me.

 

It's because we don't have any obligation that reward in beta are a delicate thing, at least for me. Especially when it comes to exclusives reward people can't get otherwise.

 

I'm not against things like keeping level, but i suppose it require extra work and time (since you have to collect data, transfert it, verify all is working and so on), and this could delay the release. SInce the beta was short and we already get an advantage (knowledge) from the start, is it really worth the extra efforts ? People shouldn't feel that playing the beta is the way to go.

[RancorSnp]

You do make an excellent point, and while I do not agree with you I do not hesitate to say you are fully correct. The difference is in our mindsets.

First off, it did never even cross my mind that people would come only to get few days more of rewards. Which is absolutely what would happen. I believe myself to be quite known in the game dev for my volunteer work, there are at least 3 companies that I unofficially "work with" on their game right very now, so I didn't consider the greed, that plays a big part. 

Another difference between us, is that from my point of view, beta testers are actually being punished, for participating in the beta. (Again, by losing interest in the event earlier, and therefore receiving less rewards than non testers). But it is again absolutely true that there is no level of obligation, which indeed warrants not giving any rewards - which I agree, and agreed with.  The thing is, that they seem to try to provoke people by giving temporary rewards at all. While during the Forge chest reward system also needed testing, there is absolutely no reason for drops to be in the gorge beta at all. 

Your point still is very strong, and I definitely didn't consider some of the very obvious points, which I wouldn't dare to argue.

[Rellimarual]

2 hours ago, RancorSnp said:

True, but thing is, testing the beta is doing Klei a favor. We are volunteering to do what people at the companies are paid to do for free.

Really? Because the way people on this forum were begging for the beta and staying up all night to get the first chance to play it, you would never know that they were doing Klei a huge favor out of the goodness of their hearts. 

Nevertheless, if you feel that it is unpaid work, you should definitely not do it.

[RancorSnp]

Just now, Rellimarual said:

Really? Because the way people on this forum were begging for the beta and staying up all night to get the first chance to play it, you would never know that they were doing Klei a huge favor out of the goodness of their hearts. 

Nevertheless, if you feel that it is unpaid work, you should definitely not do it.

I do not just feel it is unpaid work. I am informing you of what it is. This statement comes from my actual work experience. 

[ItsPizzaTime]

3 hours ago, orian34 said:

I think it's because transferring your levels from one branch to another is actually a bit of work.

The last event (the forge) allowed all beta players to keep their levels on the main branch, just that you would re-roll all your chests = to your level.

[Lumina]

3 hours ago, RancorSnp said:

You do make an excellent point, and while I do not agree with you I do not hesitate to say you are fully correct. The difference is in our mindsets.

Thanks for your understanding I also understand your point of view. I see a lot of different kinds of beta and if i think that the balance in Klei's betas is mostly fair, even with still problems with where the limit of unpaid work is, it's not always the case and the multiplications of beta and early access is a valid concern.

 

Especially because you're right, some people are invested in this in a way that is close to a work, lot of testing, bug report, even in some case look at the code searching for bugs. And in this case, having no compensation for the time spend is a different case than the "play and report bug" that is the most common behaviour (i think ?), and the "just play early" (it's more and more common to see beta and early access as this, as far as i can tell).

I don't know if there is a fair solution. My personal solution is that i would try to find a balance, try to not ruin my own fun by doing too much testing, but it's hard to find the right balance. During OnI alpha, i did some breaks to avoid being too much bored, when the content was not enough to my taste. But i could easily imagine how someone willing to help is more susceptible to cross this limit and ruin is future fun when trying to find bugs and problems.

So if it's possible to find a better solution, it would of course be welcome, because yeah, people investing a lot of efforts to ensure we'll have fun deserve at least some consideration.

It's also important to preserve oneself, no one has to ruin his own fun for a beta.

[Zeklo]

3 minutes ago, ItsPizzaTime said:

The last event (the forge) allowed all beta players to keep their levels on the main branch, just that you would re-roll all your chests = to your level.

:

On 6/12/2018 at 1:24 PM, JoeW said:

The Gorge starts Thursday, so there is no planned reward for the beta, no keeping the items or the level. 

We don't have the time to transfer over the small amount of stuff you would gain during that time, unfortunately. 

[ItsPizzaTime]

Just now, Zeklo said:

:

I know what's going on, friend. Just clarifying that Klei has the technology to do so if they want, they are just choosing not to.

[Zeklo]

Just now, ItsPizzaTime said:

I know what's going on, friend. Just clarifying that Klei has the technology to do so if they want, they are just choosing not to.

I don't think you do. The quote I linked is important because it states "We don't have the time".

[ItsPizzaTime]

Just now, Zeklo said:

I don't think you do. The quote I linked is important because it states "We don't have the time".

Having the TIME to do something and the ABILITY to even do it is a little bit of a different thing.

[Lumina]

Technology is one thing, i understand that time and work is another. It still a work for someone to do this, and verify that all is going fine. And the part you quoted is about time, not ability.

[Zeklo]

Just now, ItsPizzaTime said:

Having the TIME to do something and the ABILITY to even do it is a little bit of a different thing.

Yes, but stating they're choosing not to is a bit silly isn't it? If they don't have the time, that's not a choice. Unless you want to argue they can "make the time so it is a choice", but that's a bit self-centered I would think.

[ItsPizzaTime]

Just now, Zeklo said:

Yes, but stating they're choosing not to is a bit silly isn't it? If they don't have the time, that's not a choice. Unless you want to argue they can "make the time so it is a choice", but that's a bit self-centered I would think.

They actually could if they deemed it important. I don't think it is silly at all, as the Forge beta lasted longer than this beta. Now I'm glad that they aren't of course it's really not a big deal to me, I'd rather just play the main event. But because in the past they have done this I feel it is incorrect to say that Klei is not capable of transferring our levels.

[Lumina]

Just now, ItsPizzaTime said:

I feel it is incorrect to say that Klei is not capable of transferring our levels.

Saying that they aren't capable is incorrect, saying that it's a bit of work is totally correct, even if they have the tool for this work.

[Zeklo]

1 minute ago, ItsPizzaTime said:

But because in the past they have done this I feel it is incorrect to say that Klei is not capable of transferring our levels.

Was that ever really said though? The thing you originally quoted was saying it might be because it's a lot of work, and is that not likely accurate? If time is such an issue for something like this, according to a dev, then the process must be difficult, not impossible.

[ItsPizzaTime]

Just now, Zeklo said:

Was that ever really said though? The thing you originally quoted was saying it might be because it's a lot of work, and is that not likely accurate? If time is such an issue for something like this, according to a dev, then the process must be difficult, not impossible.

I really don't get where you're even going with this, I'm not going to change my opinion on what I said and I'm done talking to you about something so meaningless.

[Zeklo]

3 minutes ago, ItsPizzaTime said:

I really don't get where you're even going with this, I'm not going to change my opinion on what I said and I'm done talking to you about something so meaningless.

Your statements haven't been incorrect, they've just not been relevant to what you've been refuting. On a topic about difficulty and time you brought up capability.