Combining two gas pumps into one pipe...

[Lilalaunekuh]

How much oxygen does your system create ? (Mine is 525-528Kg O2 with an average <5W to filter my output lines)

 

But aren´t there some cases where mechanical filter can fail ?

(How does your system interact with different gasses after maintenance ?/ What happens if you run out of water for a short time and achiev a vaccum in your chamber ?)

 

@ Kabrute :

Doesn´t your system use shoutoff valves ? (so it still needs a bit energy for all the piping around)

[Kabrute]

6 minutes ago, Lilalaunekuh said:

How much oxygen does your system create ?

between 580 and 630kg/cycle

6 minutes ago, Lilalaunekuh said:

But aren´t there some cases where mechanical filter can fail ?

When using valve values less than 2 grams

6 minutes ago, Lilalaunekuh said:

How does your system interact with different gasses after maintenance ?

there is a trunk line for extreme overflow running between the filters, its full of 1kg packets of O2 right now but I control its output elsewhere

6 minutes ago, Lilalaunekuh said:

What happens if you run out of water for a short time and achiev a vaccum in your chamber ?)

it does just that, vacuum seals and shuts down, stops drawing power and waits for more water to arrive.

6 minutes ago, Lilalaunekuh said:

Doesn´t your system use shoutoff valves ?

No

[Lilalaunekuh]

Just now, Kabrute said:

6 minutes ago, Lilalaunekuh said:

How much oxygen does your system create ?

between 580 and 630kg/cycle

Are you sure with that numbers ? (888g/s O2 * 600s = 532,8 Kg O2  in a perfect world)

 

2 minutes ago, Kabrute said:

8 minutes ago, Lilalaunekuh said:

What happens if you run out of water for a short time and achiev a vaccum in your chamber ?)

it does just that, vacuum seals and shuts down, stops drawing power and waits for more water to arrive.

Seems you just filter the pipe coming from the upper pump, so in a rare case where your bottom pump sucks some hydrogen there could be a error case.

(In my setup i saw it happen after 20+ cycles that 1 packet of hydrogen reached my bottom pump. But automated filters (/shoutoff valves) just use power if they filter a selected element, so just a small overhead in my system)

[Kabrute]

6 minutes ago, Lilalaunekuh said:

Seems you just filter the pipe coming from the upper pump, so in a rare case where your bottom pump sucks some hydrogen there could be a error case.

I dont pull oxygen from the upper pump, hydrogen is pulled from both lines because during a backlog, the upper pump won't get as much throughput and thus tends to shut down so the pump room slowly fills with hydrogen.  As for the values, I can only repeat what report showed.  Lemme shut down half my base and let a couple cycles pass and I will give you some more exact figures for the output.

[Lilalaunekuh]

Did some testing with mechanical filter too, but never got something above 515kg O2. (And it never really felt 100% safe^^)

[Kabrute]

this setup has been running for more than 100 cycles and is what I will be doing my tests on.

1Electrolizer.sav

Prior to test, proof of only 1 electrolizer running during test
day 1 with some line blockage due to standing pressure in the base and starting with full lines.

[0xFADE]

I've had mechanical filters running for hundreds of cycles now. Once you set it it doesn't fail.  Each of my oxygen pairs has 2. The first filters hydrogen out guaranteed. Now that doesn't mean the hydrogen won't back up and go out the other end if that is what you consider a failure. Anyway one filter for hydrogen and another for oxygen so I can be sure only oxygen is in the main output pipes.  The filters are a guarantee on one side.

[Lilalaunekuh]

2 minutes ago, 0xFADE said:

Once you set it it doesn't fail.

If you never touch it again

 

But do you got some numbers for your oxygen generation 0xFADE ?

[0xFADE]

I don't monitor them. I have open on the bottom rooms to let most of the oxygen out and one vent per 2 electrolyzer to grab the hydrogen and extra oxygen to send elsewhere. If they go over pressure it doesn't really matter.  They don't use power when over pressure so I am only wasting space with more rooms.

ive got 12 electrolyzers running for 30 some odd dupes so they probably spend a lot of time off.

the real benefit of the mechanical filters is those rooms are self running off one generator and produce excess hydrogen.

[Kabrute]

so 530 not 630, you were indeed correct, my numbers were "off"

[Lilalaunekuh]

523,9Kg O2 is just 98% electrolyzer utilisation

My setup runs closer to 528 Kg, so more like 99%^^

[XEVEN]

1 hour ago, 0xFADE said:

I don't monitor them. I have open on the bottom rooms to let most of the oxygen out...

That means that a random packet of CO2, PO2, Methane, or anything else can sneak in and mess everything up?

[PhailRaptor]

14 minutes ago, XEVEN said:

That means that a random packet of CO2, PO2, Methane, or anything else can sneak in and mess everything up?

Not likely.  CO2 and NatGas are both heavier than O2.  They, by definition, cannot, at least not without a fairly significant pressure differential.  PO2 is the same as O2, but it would be the reverse of the CO2/NatGas scenario -- production of O2 coming out of the Electrolyzer will push the PO2 aside.

[Lilalaunekuh]

2 minutes ago, PhailRaptor said:

Not likely.

 

I stopped playing around with not 100% safe stuff, since I saw "save" water locks freeze and leak or some room reach really low/high pressure.

I use a seccond automated filtering loop on my bottom pump just cause I saw a single packet after 20+ cycles slip. (Just a bad combination of rapid start/stop cycles for my pumps made the bottom one pick one packet hydrogen.)

[Kabrute]

I def understand your reservations, mechanical filters can be built a lot of ways, and some can indeed be wrong so there are ways to Make the filter fail if you don't know what your doing or don't know what to look for, that being said, those ways all have to do with putting your bridges in incorrectly or setting the valve too low.   When setting up these systems I use a powered filter to guarantee that my mech filters get primed properly.  I used to see failures happen but that was because I was trying to cut corners.  The mech filter has 3 basic requirements, the valve, an input bridge, and an output bridge, trying to cut corners on any of those three results in failed filters in some way or another.  Even your extremely complex series of loops has failures hence the need for a second buffer system.   I would argue that your systems propensity to have failures make it less reliable, but there we get into semantics, 100 cycles with 0 failures vs failure in the first 20 cycles though... You have a lovely and complex pipeworks array using a low power filter system, and that is awesome, I was just trying to help maybe make it a bit better is all.
day 3

[Lilalaunekuh]

30 minutes ago, Kabrute said:

or setting the valve too low

If you set it not really low you loose some % of your possible output (But thats just throuput not efficiency)

 

30 minutes ago, Kabrute said:

but there we get into semantics, 100 cycles with 0 failures vs failure in the first 20 cycles though...

 Even 1 packet in 1000 cycles would be enough for me to not build something^^

(The build I posted is 100% safe

, running 3 of these builds close to full time for close to 400 cycles now without any slip and I really tried to mess it up with congesting/ water shortage / quick power on/off cycles ...)

 

30 minutes ago, Kabrute said:

hence the need for a second buffer system.

My second buffer is just a buffer for my second pump

But if you want to be precise, I use 3 buffer systems not just 2 to ensure my design is working really failsafe

 

 

PS: I even build some fail safe for the case my battery would drain after 50+ cycles that doesn´t involve player or dupe interaction (no disabled generator or manual gen that will just be used if i ever run low on power ...) ^^

[Kabrute]

same, full stress testing, running completely out, backing up entirely, that second system is built just above the oil biome because I set the door to open and let it suck up chlorine, co2, nat gas, and everything else.... that middle overflow soaked up everything.  0 wrong gas packets in either filter line.  The upgraded version is the first one I showed you, has a radiant water line feeding in 20c water pulling out 30c o2 : on top of everything else so I built it inside the middle of my base, then ran it for 50 cycles.   10x10, and if you feed it cold water you get out cold air thats a beast to compare with as a total package. self cooling, self powering, modular, and fail-safed through extensive testing and collaboration.  Personally I have to give a shout out to @PVD @Kasuha @QuQuasar and @Saturnus for their creations, advice, and criticism because without them I would likely never have arrived at my own version of the "spom"

[Lilalaunekuh]

Yeah I really like your build and will tinker a bit with it

My build is a "spom" too:

I use granite pipes for my right "filtering" chamber and fill it with cold polluted water

(I produce cold (10C degree) oxygen for 24 dupes with 3 of these electrolyzers setups, to ensure there is enough oxygen and my base keeps a nice temperature ^^)

But the output temperature can be changed just using a temp sensor to control the pump that recycles my "hot" polluted water.

[0xFADE]

1 hour ago, XEVEN said:

That means that a random packet of CO2, PO2, Methane, or anything else can sneak in and mess everything up?

No, the 2 mechanical filters still work.  There is only ever hydrogen going to the gens/aetn and only oxygen going out through vents to suits and remote locations.

Over the last few cycles it looks like i've averaged 1650kg of oxygen produced a cycle.  So overpressure by a lot.

Regarding mechanical filters again like it was mentioned in the thread I first saw them in you want one entry valve at 999 and the main filter to be at 1.  The 999 keeps a 1 sized packet of the thing being filtered from going past the filter(if the filter isn't backed up)

With this design I was powering all the suits with those electrolyzers(since they don't use power often) and the rest of that bit by themselves.  I trust the mechanical filters 100%

 

 

[Lilalaunekuh]

1 minute ago, 0xFADE said:

averaged 1650kg of oxygen produced a cycle

For how many electrolyzer ? (532,8Kg O2 would be 100% uptime in a perfect world)

[0xFADE]

I've got max gas pressure everywhere in well over a 100 tile radius from them.  They don't consume power or water when they are over pressurized so I don't think that level of efficiency is required but I've got 12 built in the upper center of the base so they are not running most of the time.

I could say that over using them requires less energy than trying to be super efficient.  I'm only using one gas pump per 2 electrolyzers instead of the usual 2 pumps per.  That means I'm using 240watts for 1 instead of 600 watts for 1.

[Lilalaunekuh]

3 minutes ago, 0xFADE said:

I could say that over using them requires less energy than trying to be super efficient.  I'm only using one gas pump per 2 electrolyzers instead of the usual 2 pumps per.  That means I'm using 240watts for 1 instead of 600 watts for 1

Wouldn´t make your build better if you use just one pump that runs just for longer periods^^

(It should even be better to run 2 pumps and merge the packets so the lower pump mostly sucks oxygen and the upper pump sucks in mixed gases (So the average packet size your pump sucks in is closer to 500g if you got 2 pumps^^). But we are talking about small benefits here. )

 

[0xFADE]

14 minutes ago, Lilalaunekuh said:

Wouldn´t make your build better if you use just one pump that runs just for longer periods^^

(It should even be better to run 2 pumps and merge the packets so the lower pump mostly sucks oxygen and the upper pump sucks in mixed gases (So the average packet size your pump sucks in is closer to 500g if you got 2 pumps^^). But we are talking about small benefits here. )

 

I am running 2 sets of double rooms so that the 2 pumps merge in to one full packet for that reason yeah.

I should add some automation to turn the electrolyzers off if I am above some pressure in the room.  That is a nice idea.

[XEVEN]

So I finally had the chance to play with the new patch a little bit today. Im noticing some strange behavior. Packets randomly larger than 500g are entering the pipe literally right off of the outlet of a single gas pump. What is going on. How is this possible?

[0xFADE]

Most likely backed up by that short pipe section waiting for something to get sucked in the filter.  It only has to be for a moment.

You only need one filter because the best those 2 pumps can do is one full pipe.