we need To talk About willow

[GuyNamedChris]

28 minutes ago, Ressayez said:

it is clear to me that you do not know anything about don't starve multiplayer game and that you are a noob

this is a discussion created for experienced players only... goodbye...

I don't know where people are getting this "lighter is portable campfire" thing from, every time I'm try to cook something on it, not even a option shows up!

here is screenshtos for proof

it's not just for meats, doesn't work for vegetals either, so... either my game is bugged or this isn't a feature

http://prntscr.com/i6zhy7 lol nice edit

Anyway, please learn the character before running in to this guns ablazing. Only Willow has this feature, no need to try cooking an uncookable food on top of a grounded lighter as some random anime character.

here is screenshtos for proof

it's not just for meats, it works for vegetals too, so... either my game is bugged or this is a feature

[Ressayez]

Just now, Chris1488 said:

http://prntscr.com/i6zhy7 lol nice edit

it merged my posts, but ok

[PillsStealer]

1 minute ago, Chris1488 said:

Anyway, please learn the character before running in to this guns ablazing. Only Willow has this feature, no need to try cooking an uncookable food on top of a grounded lighter as some random anime character.

Shhh keep it down, he has the power of god and anime on his side!

[Ressayez]

1 minute ago, PillsStealer said:

Shhh keep it down, he has the power of god and anime on his side!

i am a atheist and anime is an art form

[PillsStealer]

Just now, Ressayez said:

i am a atheist and anime is an art form

M e m e

https://youtu.be/iOv6RVpE4RY

[Ressayez]

2 minutes ago, PillsStealer said:

M e m e

https://youtu.be/iOv6RVpE4RY

you're disrespecting a future us army soldier

[Cellby]

I like how overdramatic this post is. It's fine buddy, sometimes one just needs to let it all out.

But no matter the amount of caps lock used Klei will still not heed your cries for help

[Mr.Mulk]

Apologies for the previous post, I was attempting to quote the author in a spoiler and accidentally hit the enter key one too many times.

As for the discussion of the subject I'd like to weigh in. As a Willow main (1000+ hours playing her), it's pretty clear to me the point the author's trying to get across, but it's poorly worded and marginally researched, however the discussion on the subject still holds value.

Now that's out of the way I'd like to discuss my opinions on the subject itself. Personally, people tend to take one of three sides in this matter:

1. They say she needs a buff and actually want one implemented

2. They admit she needs a buff, but actually wouldn't want one implemented (potentially ruining the meta)

3. They deny she needs a buff altogether and then promptly tell you how every character is objectively better (oh the irony)

I completely understand not everyone falls under these categories, but in my experience the vast majority of the community fits this bill. As for addressing the second and third categories it can be a bit frustrating as the disparage between the current characters is so blatant that anyone who denies it must be willingly ignoring the imbalance. There's a reason the forums have had endless discussion on this subject, with people consistently calling for a buff, and will continue to do so until it actually gets implemented.

As for the first group, it's understandable that Klei would generally ignore us considering people tend to be all over the map with what they would think constitutes a healthy buff. Some people make calls for buffs that are woefully overpowered, while others make calls for buffs that'd make absolutely no difference. The only constant is that there is absolutely no uniformity in these calls, making it hard for a developer to actually act on all our obscure and contradictory desires for a buff.

So what do I recommend? Well a lot of people wouldn't like my suggestion, but I'd recommend a simple return to form for Willow. I just recently did a playthrough with Shipwrecked after not playing DS for a while and, well, I forgot how awesome her character is in the singleplayer.

More Dps than Wolfgang could even come close to touching.

Now, most people would complain saying "But Mulk, that'd ruin pvp! It'd be so imbalanced!" The thing is, Don't Starve Together isn't about PvP. Sure it exists, but the vast majority of people don't ever even touch PvP, and it's completely silly to base your entire balancing decisions off of a mode that barely anyone plays. This makes the initial nerf even more perplexing, as on every front you can make an argument for not nerfing in the first place.

The Lighter Nerf* - Completely unnecessary and doesn't deter griefing in any way

The Removal of inventory burning - "Because I can't just make a torch to grief.... Oh wait." Also we gotta satisfy all those PVP players that barely exist. Good thing Willow is nerfed we wouldn't want any one character to be broken.

The Fire Resist Nerf - Again I don't get how this was supposed to quell griefing. It's honestly already a fairly weak perk except for it being necessary for inventory burning.

The Sanity Freezing Nerf - This can be described best as a just a straight up "kick while you're already down" Again completely unnecessary,

To conclude, any character can make a torch within seconds and do just as much damage as an unnerfed and nerfed Willow. The nerfs succeeded in nothing but causing vitriol in the community, and should be totally removed wholesale.

*I'm aware her lighter received the cooking buff, but honestly it's so weak it's not worth mentioning here

[CaptainChaotica]

^

And THAT'S why I use the mod I use.  It just returns her to singleplayer form--completely--and that's it. (Although at the moment it isn't working because of the new Winter's Feast code, but the creator is on it. : P)

...Notorious

[Sinister_Fang]

1 hour ago, Mr.Mulk said:

The Sanity Freezing Nerf - This can be described best as a just a straight up "kick while you're already down" Again completely unnecessary,

Actually, it very much was necessary. Willow's insanity fires had to be removed in a multiplayer environment, so they went with a mechanic that would force the player to create their own fires (preferably in a safe location).

[Mr.Mulk]

3 minutes ago, Sinister_Fang said:

Actually, it very much was necessary. Willow's insanity fires had to be removed in a multiplayer environment, so they went with a mechanic that would force the player to create their own fires (preferably in a safe location).

I'd still prefer the original mechanic, it makes sanity an actually important factor. Not to mention all super valuable resources and structures can be protected with flingos, and the player can easily maintain high sanity if they know what they're doing.

[Sinister_Fang]

4 minutes ago, Mr.Mulk said:

I'd still prefer the original mechanic, it makes sanity an actually important factor. Not to mention all super valuable resources and structures can be protected with flingos, and the player can easily maintain high sanity if they know what they're doing.

Not everyone is going to know what they're doing or have flingos up when they first create their base. Willow would get an even worse reputation as a griefer character then what she already has. It works in singleplayer because the entire world is yours, but in multiplayer a perk like this is even less desirable because you're sharing a world with multiple people. That's why the perk was reworked to effect the individual player instead of the world itself.

[ShadowDuelist]

Someone mentioned in other posts that Willow's perks should revolve around sanity, and I think that fits her great.

A few Ideas:

-Make the lighter have same light radius as a torch, let everyone cook on it, make it refuelable by butterflies. (This could make the lighter a useful item for anyone to have.)
-I'd leave Bernie as he is, the reasons will be explained afterwards
-Make willow fire immune again not just resistant

-Make Willow major perks appear as she is insane: Insanity should work the same way as hunger works for Wolfgang, only that in this case the more insane she is the better perks she gets. She should get a bonus to all firey related things as soon as she IS insane, the less sanity the better perks. All these perks dissapear as she gets enough sanity to stop having the insanity visual effects and shadows stop attacking you.

Spoiler

 

• Torches and Lighter have a larger light radius, 5% more on the upper edge of insanity, 25% more at 0 sanity.
• She cooks with crock pot faster the more insane she is when she starts cooking, 10% faster at the upper edge of insanity 50% faster at 0 sanity
• All campfires and firepits placed by her will start at max fire level as long as she is insane when she places it. (If she is sane it will be the same as usual. This does no count for refueling a campfire or fire pit)
• Fire staves and fire darts are her favorite toys, make them work better for her if she is insane: If she uses them when insane they will deal a new special type of fire damage to enemies (let's call it willow fire, possibly making it more blue-ish so we can tell) that does not spreads to other enemies or structures/prefabs. This special fire damage will be higher than normal fire, depending how insane she is: 50% more fire damage over time at the edge of insanity, 100% more fire damage at 0 sanity.
  If she gets sane again, she will deal normal fire damage with these items, thats does spread, like everyone else. This would add a great DOT to willow, making her much better suited for combat. Of course fire immune enemies will still be immune to this.
• Scalemail provides more sanity to her if she is insane, up to 6.6/min with 0 sanity, with diminishing returns as she gets more sane. It will be at normal 3.3 when she's back on the sane level again.

New Con: Willow gets more damage from all cold damage sources (freezing, Deerclops attack, etc). 25% normally, and the con increases as she gets insane up to 50% more cold damage taken at 0 sanity.

Q: But-but-but i dun wanna fight or do stuff being insane, shadows will murder me!
A: That's why you have Bernie the point is that this would be optional, if you wanna stay sane all the playthrough its up to you, no pain no gain.

[CaptainChaotica]

See, this is where I kinda agree with BOTH of you, Mr. Mulk and Sinister_Fang, and can't quite decide.  On the one hand I very much agree that the insanity-freezing TOTALLY feels like a kick-you-when-you're-down.  On the other hand, I totally agree that the insanity fires only work well in singleplayer, where you can only burn your OWN stuff/future resources, and not everybody's.  I've seen non-nerfed Willow in the early DST beta at one point in Markiplier and Bob's playthrough...it didn't go well.  ("Don't mind me, I'll just be over here, picking flowers in the dark and yelling to myself, 'cos _that's_ a totally sane thing to do!  LA LA LA LA LA.") 

...and/or that it only works when in the hands of experienced players, which is why I get a little nervous when somebody ELSE picks Willow on one of my servers...'cos a lot of the time they don't even _get_ that singleplayer Willow is different, let alone how, or that she's BEEN changed.  And then they're like "HOLY CRAP WHAT HAPPENED I DIDN'T MEAN TO DO THAT!" and I run over to put out something smouldering in the base.

....BUUUUUTTT...

I think her Together-friendly drawback should be something _else_.  I can see where they got insane=colder from mentally, but wouldn't it work more like she feels less sane WHEN she's cold?  (That wouldn't be an improvement, but just sayin'.)   Not insanity-fires, but NOT insanity-freezing, either.  Because I frickin' hate that one.  I'd rather burn down my own base than deal with that; the one feels more lore-appropriate for Willow as an uncontrolled ball of potential wildfire; the other one is just...sad.  But I'm not sure what it _should_ be, exactly, and that's where I always get stuck in this discussion.  :\

...Notorious

[ShadowDuelist]

Spoiler

I believe this was meant to be a troll thread, but still, its always a nice fun discussion to have.

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)