Saturnus Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 An updated version below. No modpack required. More stable operation. Much lower power consumption (under 640W on average). Tested in an environment that mimics survival game. EDIT: Due to a problem reported by @Transwarp the save file has been changed. The 0.2KG setting is changed to 0.3KG, the tepidizer is now on a power switch instead of automation wire, and the petroleum is exchanged for water. Now thermal runaway should not be able to happen and power consumption is even lower due to water being more efficient. 560W average now. Save file co2 oil gas cooker v2 (no mod).sav I've summed the construction up in a single picture. Note that it's completely self-regulating and it can run on a single 2KW line as the aquatuner and tepidizer cannot be on at the same time. Power consumption is as noted 1071W on average for 500g/s throughput. It could easily handle much more but 500g/s is already 6667W from NGGs so it runs at 5596W surplus power output. Do not try to add temp shift plates anywhere they're not in the picture as they will negatively affect operation... by a lot. The row of statues actually heat the crude oil to over 320C and the crude oil has already turned to petroleum before it hits the heat plate. Natural gas output temperature is 30C. Also note there is no automation to artificially keep the aquatuner on. It stays on because it is cooled down not because of a trick or bug. Best of all. There's no start up adjustments to be made. Just build as is, and it self-regulates start up and continuous operation itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KittenIsAGeek Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 I like your centralized design. I built something similar, but my slicksters are off-site and I used a water-cooling system above the furnace to cool the entire room. Yes, there is a cold biome in the upper right, but its isolated by abyssalite tiles because I wanted to see how it would work without the extra cold. How it works: The air pressure sensor for the pump turns it on when pressure is above 1500. The other one opens the oil valve when pressure drops below 2000. The liquid sensor is set to 0.1kg and turns on the tepidizer if there is liquid present. The temp shift plates in the gas room are made from diamond. While only 3 NGGs are visible, I'm actually running 5. Preliminary testing by venting into a room shows that this should keep up with a full 500g/s rate without overheating the room. The next time I make this, I'll move the liquid valve closer to the vent to cut down on hysteresis. Gas pipe overlay. 130g/s headed up, 200g/s headed down. Because of the delay between the sensor and oil valve, there's occasional gaps, but never enough to let a generator run dry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uraharakisuke Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 I understand the tepedizer trick but how is 1 aquatuner keeping up with all the heat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HurukHai Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 4 hours ago, uraharakisuke said: I understand the tepedizer trick but how is 1 aquatuner keeping up with all the heat? +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feralfoo Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 8 hours ago, uraharakisuke said: I understand the tepedizer trick but how is 1 aquatuner keeping up with all the heat? Its a slight variation on what some are calling the Borg Cube, which makes use of a cooling exploit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saturnus Posted January 21, 2018 Author Share Posted January 21, 2018 18 hours ago, uraharakisuke said: I understand the tepedizer trick but how is 1 aquatuner keeping up with all the heat? It's just really clever engineering. Because, yes, I could just have used my Borg cube oil cooler design and just used it as is to cool down the natural gas but that would have required to run a lot more often and therefore burn a ton more power. So there's a bit more to it than just that. You see it only uses 1071W on average. And the maximum power draw at any one time is 1920W so it can run on a single 2KW circuit. But of those 1071W, 252W is used just on running the natural gas pump that pulls out the natural gas and the crude oil feed pump. So the heating and cooling only uses 819W on average. To get to that insanely low power consumption you have to notice the top bit. The part that converts the incoming CO2 to crude oil. Since slickster poop oil at 30C this is used to soak up some of the heat from the cooking process and then there's the row of sculpture blocks. Those are actually a heat exchanger that draw out heat from the natural gas passing by to heat up the crude oil from the 30C the slickster poop it out at to about to about 380C before hitting the heating plate. The natural gas is in return cooled from the minimum 540C it takes to convert it from petroleum to natural gas to about 190C at the start of the bend leading to the natural gas pump. That means it's a nearly 100% efficient heat exchanger. And without this part it would have used at least twice the power it does. At least. You can't preheat the oil much more than I do here by traditional means as you don't want to risk it converting to petroleum in the heat exchanger as that would block it and prevent it from working. You could add a small polluted water distiller to the end to cool the natural gas down a bit more before being cooled by the oil cooler but since you don't have much residual heat energy left after the heat exchanger the throughput would be very limited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saturnus Posted January 21, 2018 Author Share Posted January 21, 2018 I've made a minor improvement by moving the crude oil vent one position and making the heat exchanger one tile longer. It now uses 1016W on average. So 55W saved. About 6.7% saved on the heating and cooling part. I've included the save file as well. Oil cooker.sav Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saturnus Posted January 21, 2018 Author Share Posted January 21, 2018 It has been brought to my attention that the temperature sensor set to 550C is not possible to do without the modpack. Luckily, you can replace it with a hydro sensor set to above 0.2kg and get virtually the same performance (see pic). I do suggest checking out the modpack though (link below). https://forums.kleientertainment.com/topic/81296-mod159-materialcolor-onionpatcher/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uraharakisuke Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 @Saturnus Thank you for explaining and for the save file as well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOlz Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 Very nice @Saturnus! My oil boiler is much bigger than this and probably doesn't have much (if at all) better throughput, I really like the compact size you've got. Also, let's hope 'High Pressure Sensors' come along at some point, but until then the modpack is great Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saturnus Posted January 22, 2018 Author Share Posted January 22, 2018 Updated with an even more efficient new version that does not require the use of the modpack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Transwarp Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 Yesterday I was playing a little bit with your old build and thought it would be good having water and oil at the same time heated up. I build a little modded version for creating steam and with cooling water. I added 2 natural gas generators witch consume the gas and produce CO2 for the slicksters. So I got a self running version with own power creation. After over 150 cycles my oil get very less and the room began to overheat with the metal plates at the floor. But will test your new version now. One things you can save more power if changing the petrolium pump inside the middle with a smaller version with 60W. I tested it and it can't overheat inside and the few times it is needed it's absolute ok for use this smaller version. Absolute good work and nice self running and self recycle system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saturnus Posted January 22, 2018 Author Share Posted January 22, 2018 4 minutes ago, Transwarp said: Yesterday I was playing a little bit with your old build and thought it would be good having water and oil at the same time heated up. I build a little modded version for creating steam and with cooling water. I added 2 natural gas generators witch consume the gas and produce CO2 for the slicksters. So I got a self running version with own power creation. After over 150 cycles my oil get very less and the room began to overheat with the metal plates at the floor. But will test your new version now. One things you can save more power if changing the petrolium pump inside the middle with a smaller version with 60W. I tested it and it can't overheat inside and the few times it is needed it's absolute ok for use this smaller version. Absolute good work and nice self running and self recycle system. Thanks. The new version save file includes 8 NGGs to burn (most of) the natural gas and supply enough CO2 back. This also gives a better picture on long term stability which is why I included it. The previous version was running both too hot by overcooking the oil and too cold by overcooling the output gas and tepidizer needlessly. A large pump is actually a more efficient per kg pumped so it will not save any power. The difference isn't big though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Transwarp Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 Just run your new build 1 Minute and the cables got overloaded inside the middle cooling / heating part. The wire just broke. And yes I noticed the version before got about -22 degress at the cooling plates for the gas pump and now about 70. Much heater. I also saw cooler and heater running both at the same time. Thats why the wire was broken. It seems you had not connected automation cable to the heater so both was running at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saturnus Posted January 22, 2018 Author Share Posted January 22, 2018 2 hours ago, Transwarp said: Just run your new build 1 Minute and the cables got overloaded inside the middle cooling / heating part. The wire just broke. And yes I noticed the version before got about -22 degress at the cooling plates for the gas pump and now about 70. Much heater. I also saw cooler and heater running both at the same time. Thats why the wire was broken. It seems you had not connected automation cable to the heater so both was running at the same time. I suspect you accidentally changed something that shouldn't have been changed then. The tepidizer and aquatuner can't run at the same time. It's simply cannot happen. My own game is running in the background for over 100 cycles more than the save file with no issues at all. Either that or you run it on ultra-speed which does make automation work funny, so I never do that to proper test something. If you're using any of the normal game speeds, everything works flawlessly. However, at ultraspeed all bets are off. Nothing, absolutely nothing works properly at ultraspeed. And this isn't limited to this build. It's universal. EDIT: As I suspected, running ultraspeed breaks it. I tried running ultraspeed for 5 minutes and it broke. What happens is the naphtha simply disappears so the automation wire controlling the tepidizer breaks. So don't run ultraspeed folks. The game does not work correctly on ultraspeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Transwarp Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 I did not changed anything and running inside this speed your game was saved. And yes it seemed it saved in ultra fast speed. First a wolframite appear inside. The plates heat up 1000 degress and the automation cable about 2200 degrees. It just melt someone soon and a gold block appear. And very quick after this naptcha meltdown and everything is heat up yes. Strange things using an iron wire it does not melt. Gold automation always melts at fast speed. Strange thinge at the old save this does not happen. Sometimes for simulating and testing things high speed is needed for testing if other things working. It's hard if then everything is breaking appart doing crazy things. I will see if there is a secret between old version and new and why the old did not break at any speed. There must be something inside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saturnus Posted January 22, 2018 Author Share Posted January 22, 2018 1 hour ago, Transwarp said: I did not changed anything and running inside this speed your game was saved. And yes it seemed it saved in ultra fast speed. First a wolframite appear inside. The plates heat up 1000 degress and the automation cable about 2200 degrees. It just melt someone soon and a gold block appear. And very quick after this naptcha meltdown and everything is heat up yes. Strange things using an iron wire it does not melt. Gold automation always melts at fast speed. Strange thinge at the old save this does not happen. Sometimes for simulating and testing things high speed is needed for testing if other things working. It's hard if then everything is breaking appart doing crazy things. I will see if there is a secret between old version and new and why the old did not break at any speed. There must be something inside. Yeah. I owe you an apology, see edit of original post. When I downloaded the save file instead of using my own file I also ran into a problem which lead my to think that a very rare thermal runaway problem could be on the brink of happening. I've changed a few things and let it run 20 cycles. See if that doesn't work properly. I does for me even if I exit and open a freshly download save file. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donutman07 Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 just out of curiosity, whats holding you back from more CO2 in and more natural gas out? I imagine 500g/s of natural gas is good enough for most people, but always fun to tweak these things a bit and see if you can't do even more. Might be a mild nuisance to get another gas pump in there for the output, but aside from that my guess is maybe the cooling/heating would have to be all re-tweaked to go higher throughput. Of course you could just build a 2nd one of these if you want more, but who wants to waste all that space Plus there might be efficiency gains in building 1 big system over 2 smaller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saturnus Posted January 22, 2018 Author Share Posted January 22, 2018 500g/s is a nice proof of concept target because it's full capacity of one pump. Combined with the natural gas geyser it's 11 NGGs running and then you add a few fert synths perhaps, some hydrogen gens and you're quickly starring at 15KW-16KW power system already. The idea here was to see how compact and efficient it could be made. And to make it a drop-and-forget block that just runs along minding it's own business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlas888 Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 @Saturnus looks amazing. Can't wait to try this out. Appreciate you sharing the specs and detailed images! Atlas Edit to add: you mentioned that you tested some configurations of tempshift plates but they did not help. Im curious about throwing some in there to observe their effects -- specifically how you could adjust the pre-heat temp of the crude (thereby removing more heat from the Nat Gas?). But they wouldnt be able to reduce the already efficient average power usage of the system, would they? Maybe just shift some heat-energy from one area to another... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kabrute Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 1 hour ago, Atlas888 said: @Saturnus looks amazing. Can't wait to try this out. Appreciate you sharing the specs and detailed images! Atlas Edit to add: you mentioned that you tested some configurations of tempshift plates but they did not help. Im curious about throwing some in there to observe their effects -- specifically how you could adjust the pre-heat temp of the crude (thereby removing more heat from the Nat Gas?). But they wouldnt be able to reduce the already efficient average power usage of the system, would they? Maybe just shift some heat-energy from one area to another... The best you could hope for in this regards would be to run the oil line up through the nat gas outflow, trading out those last bits of heat, would bring your outgoing nat gas down below 100C (incoming oil temp) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saturnus Posted January 23, 2018 Author Share Posted January 23, 2018 7 hours ago, Kabrute said: The best you could hope for in this regards would be to run the oil line up through the nat gas outflow, trading out those last bits of heat, would bring your outgoing nat gas down below 100C (incoming oil temp) Yeah. I've ditched the tombstone heat exchanger in favour of a meandering tungsten liquid pipe heat exchanger in the final version. I'll need a bit of help really long-term stability testing it but for 50 cycles crude oil output temperatures have been 392C +-5C. As you can't go above 400C it's pretty much as good as it gets. I've also optimised the water cooler as much as it can be so I think I'm done really. Power consumption is now down to a staggering 442W average. Of which 252W is used on the natural gas output and crude oil feeder pumps which must run all the time. So that means only 190W is used on the whole heating and cooling process. I think that's pretty decently efficient EDIT: And it finally broke the pipes due to temperature spike caused by lag. Anyway, shortened the heat exchanger so there's a much wider margin of error. Unfortunately also means power consumption is up by 6W to 448W on average. Save file is the updated version. co2 oil gas cooker (final).sav Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lifegrow Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 You've vexed me on this one @Saturnus - I'm ambivalent towards it On one hand I absolutely love the engineering, refinement and all around brilliance of the build - genuinely. On the other, it's based off of the dirtiest of exploits.... ... But it is very nifty.... ... But it's wrong! .... But it's snazzy, and efficient... and... and... ..... Ahh hell I have to build one myself now Great work as ever buddy. x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kabrute Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 Suprisingly, I don't think it has an upper limit. I started it at 10 g/s oil and ran it up over 1k. O.o so yeah, that works. Kinda needs the cooler plate on the left side too though XD awesome sauce saturnus, you finally got me boiling things . was averaging 330 w at 400g/s. More efficient at higher flow rate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KittenIsAGeek Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 On 1/23/2018 at 9:35 AM, Saturnus said: Yeah. I've ditched the tombstone heat exchanger in favour of a meandering tungsten liquid pipe heat exchanger in the final version. I'll need a bit of help really long-term stability testing it but for 50 cycles crude oil output temperatures have been 392C +-5C. As you can't go above 400C it's pretty much as good as it gets. I've also optimised the water cooler as much as it can be so I think I'm done really. Power consumption is now down to a staggering 442W average. Of which 252W is used on the natural gas output and crude oil feeder pumps which must run all the time. So that means only 190W is used on the whole heating and cooling process. I think that's pretty decently efficient EDIT: And it finally broke the pipes due to temperature spike caused by lag. Anyway, shortened the heat exchanger so there's a much wider margin of error. Unfortunately also means power consumption is up by 6W to 448W on average. Save file is the updated version. co2 oil gas cooker (final).sav Your new design solves some of the issues I was encountering with my own design. I may borrow some ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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