Naphtha - how to obtain quick and easy?

[habuky]

QUESTION: I wonder if there is an easy and early available method to produce naphtha. It should require only "low tech" and not rely on any exploits.

I have seen the magma-oven approach, posted somewhere here. It is great. However it needs quite a lot of effort digging down there.

My current approach consists of granite walls around my Geyser tank. The walls heat the plastic leaders close to them. It works quick and easy. However it will only create 75kg per tile. So it's quite cumbersome and requires user-labor . The locker close to the wall contains 3.000kg plastic. But due to the mass it heats only very slowly. 

 

So, how do you do it?

[Saturnus]

Set the max capacity on the storage locker to something like 500kg, and it'll heat up much faster

[donutman07]

some tempshift plates might help direct the heat. also use abyssalite on all the tiles around the geyser, except in the direction you want heat to go (continue using granite there).

 

You can also just use the space heaters, maybe even let the naptha drop down to a cooler room below for cleanup

[GreatGameDota]

Your probably the first person on these forums that I see actually farming Balm Lilies 

[clickrush]

From my experience plastic ladders are the fastest way. I assume that is because you evenly distribute the heat over many tiles and little mass. You can achieve something similar with an array of storage compactors set to a low amount of kg. However I use naphtha locks in a lot of places in my current base and the time to draw a ladder is simply negligible. If you want continous naphtha production without involvement on your part for some reason then go for the storage compactors.

Your method of using heat from the steam geyser seems smart. I would personally at least combine this with some sort of reliable heat production, just to make sure you don't cool this area too much by constantly bringing in naphtha. However if the other tiles around the geyser are made of abyssalite it might just work fine.

Brothgar showcased an oven made of ceiling lights to produce naphtha, which I'am using in my base and it is super fast and steady. All you need is some gold, abyssalite, and refined metal for the temp switch and the automation wires. I have it constantly running because I like flickering and the bleep bloops.

[Saturnus]

Well. If you really want a steady stream of naphtha then you can also just make sure the polymer press room is high enough temperature to melt the plastic when it comes out. No need for carrying plastic anywhere. Use the liquid naphtha produced as coolant.

[donutman07]

32 minutes ago, clickrush said:

Brothgar showcased an oven made of ceiling lights to produce naphtha, which I'am using in my base and it is super fast and steady. All you need is some gold, abyssalite, and refined metal for the temp switch and the automation wires. I have it constantly running because I like flickering and the bleep bloops.

got a link to this?  I tried checking out his youtube channel and using the forum search but couldnt find what you're referring to.  I'm quite curious about this oven.  I'd like to make high temperatures, but it seems there's only really 2 good methods, magma, and the super heating gas 'bug'/method

[clickrush]

44 minutes ago, donutman07 said:

got a link to this?  I tried checking out his youtube channel and using the forum search but couldnt find what you're referring to.  I'm quite curious about this oven.  I'd like to make high temperatures, but it seems there's only really 2 good methods, magma, and the super heating gas 'bug'/method

It is a very simple oven and you won't get past the overheat temperature of the ceiling lights, which seems to be the general limiting factor for heat produciton. I'am also thinking about high temperature atm. Can you explain the bug you mentioned? I haven't read about that yet.

Maybe there is something to be done with abyssalite tempshift plates? They seem quite mystical to me and I haven't done tests with them yet. Can they prevent heat exchange between tiles? Can the metal refinery possibly be used for heating up stuff? Idk there has to be something.

 

[donutman07]

1 minute ago, clickrush said:

Can you explain the bug you mentioned?

 

Basically the tepidizer can super heat gasses as long as it's partially submerged by a cool (below 85C) liquid.  With that you can directly boil crude oil into natural gas, and as a bonus use some of the excess heat to boil polluted water into steam & dirt (and if you want you can modify it to turn the dirt to sand, but that's pretty pointless now).

 

Alternatively, if you tune it right, you could turn the crude into petroleum and just store it for plastic production or petroleum generator, but natural gas generator system is more efficient with this method

[clickrush]

That is really nice. I first thought that this looks really fragile but reading from the responses you seem to have found that the seperation is done via a small naphtha tile.

[Lifegrow]

Honestly, I've completely phased out naptha from my builds now - it's too unpredictable and i've watched it do some seriously strange things.

On one of my last ONI streams, I had a small tower of naptha inexplicably move 2 tiles horizontally. Later we watched the same thing happen to a liquid lock. A liquid that can be moved by a few grams of CO2 instantly lost a lot of utility in my eyes  

Clipped it for you :

https://clips.twitch.tv/SoftEasyBeefTwitchRPG

[FIXBUGFIXBUGFIX]

8 hours ago, donutman07 said:

got a link to this?  I tried checking out his youtube channel and using the forum search but couldnt find what you're referring to.  I'm quite curious about this oven.  I'd like to make high temperatures, but it seems there's only really 2 good methods, magma, and the super heating gas 'bug'/method

As I known, there is 4 methods to make or keep high temperature.

1. Magma. The cleanest heater

2. Aquatuner. Build it in small room and fill the room in hydrogen.  Aquatuner can heat the room until it is broken or melted.

3. Tepidizer. In fact, no need to submerge it in liquid, just use a periodic pulse signal. 

4. Make a super heater airlock, if you don't mind using tons of bugs and want to save electricity.

 

[clickrush]

6 hours ago, Lifegrow said:

Honestly, I've completely phased out naptha from my builds now - it's too unpredictable and i've watched it do some seriously strange things.

On one of my last ONI streams, I had a small tower of naptha inexplicably move 2 tiles horizontally. Later we watched the same thing happen to a liquid lock. A liquid that can be moved by a few grams of CO2 instantly lost a lot of utility in my eyes  

Clipped it for you :

https://clips.twitch.tv/SoftEasyBeefTwitchRPG

Oh dear that is scary, considering the amount of naphtha locks I'am using right now. But I never had this occur to me. Might it be because you are using a 2x tile wide lock? Or because she was breathing out that CO2 right at the time? My locks are all 1x tile wide and only accessed via atmo suits. That might block out the possibility of moving naphtha horizontally.

[Lifegrow]

1 minute ago, clickrush said:

Oh dear that is scary, considering the amount of naphtha locks I'am using right now. But I never had this occur to me. Might it be because you are using a 2x tile wide lock? Or because she was breathing out that CO2 right at the time? My locks are all 1x tile wide and only accessed via atmo suits. That might block out the possibility of moving naphtha horizontally.

Aye, it's entirely caused by them exhaling - not sure if flatulent dupes could cause a similar issue - I imagine they could, however I never take flatulent folks. Atmo suits would obviously prevent any chance of this as they wouldn't be exhaling, but it's certainly something that people should be aware of.

Lots of people have been singing the virtues of naptha, however until it's a fully hashed out element within the game, i'd rather give it a wide birth.

 

 

[habuky]

Thanks for the many answers and suggestions.  I will try to address them all  

@Saturnus: The idea to let the plastic be heated directly by the polymer press sounds like the most automated approach. However I wonder how to use a non-flowing liquid  (naphtha) as cooling  fluid. – But I did not have time yet to try ingame...

@Saturnus: Thanks, I totally forgot the option to change the maximum capacity of the storage lockers. It’s actually the key element for a semi-automated approach:  If the capacity is set to a very low number (like 100kg) and delivery thereto is given a high priority, the dupes will fill the lockers every time the plastic is molten. Through a hydro sensor and a door the production can easily be limited to a reasonable amount. 

EDIT: I just made a quick test: the 75kg ladders melt during half a cycle or less. The 50kg in the 80°C hot locker in the very same place heated up just by a few degrees. painfully slow.

 

@clickrush The lamp-oven from the video is a good solution if you need a source of heat – at it really low tech! in plus it might be used with lockers or ladders!

@donutman07 and others: yes, more abyssalite walls would reduce the loss of heat. Given the amount of hot water this was never real a problem. In plus I needed more heat to warm my chlorine storage to farm Balm Lillies (@GreatGameDota valid point   in fact they have no use, I just liked the idea of using free heat)

@donutman07 space heaters are unfortunately not an option: they stop working at around 60-70°C  ambient temperature (I forgot which temperature). Needed are 76.9°C or something.  

@Lifegrow, hmmm not sure if I am happy about your Sword of Damocles   But thanks for the warning anyway!

 

 

[clickrush]

You can use space heaters if they are partially submerged in a gas that is below their max temperature. Brothgar did a video about this exploring different setups and he uses it to boil water in his base I think. The gas he uses is chlorine because it heats up extremely slowly, so the gas above the heaters absorb the heat quicker than the chlorine on the bottom.

This is similar to the tepidizer discussion above. Apparently often when something magically effective is found it has something to do with the fact that ONI is a tile based game. Other examples include partially submerged Morbs, electrolyzer setups and mechanical filters.

[clickrush]

22 hours ago, donutman07 said:

 

Basically the tepidizer can super heat gasses as long as it's partially submerged by a cool (below 85C) liquid.  With that you can directly boil crude oil into natural gas, and as a bonus use some of the excess heat to boil polluted water into steam & dirt (and if you want you can modify it to turn the dirt to sand, but that's pretty pointless now).

 

Alternatively, if you tune it right, you could turn the crude into petroleum and just store it for plastic production or petroleum generator, but natural gas generator system is more efficient with this method

Sorry I don't think I understood it completely. I made a very similar setup but my tepidizer overheats. Why doesn't it overheat in this? Can the right side of it be surrounded by a bit of gas? Does it have to be completely surrounded by tiles? If yes why?

[donutman07]

1 hour ago, clickrush said:

Sorry I don't think I understood it completely. I made a very similar setup but my tepidizer overheats. Why doesn't it overheat in this? Can the right side of it be surrounded by a bit of gas? Does it have to be completely surrounded by tiles? If yes why?

which gas did you use?  It's important to use a gas with a low thermal conductivity like co2 or chlorine.  co2 works best though because of the rules regarding moving the co2.  I'm not sure it needs to be surrounded by tiles or not.  It does need a liquid below 85C covering half of it, or as suggested by others a pulser to control it.  I think I had issues when only 1 of the 4 tiles was gas.

[clickrush]

Just now, donutman07 said:

which gas did you use?  It's important to use a gas with a low thermal conductivity like co2 or chlorine.  co2 works best though because of the rules regarding moving the co2.  I'm not sure it needs to be surrounded by tiles or not.  It does need a liquid below 85C covering half of it, or as suggested by others a pulser to control it.  I think I had issues when only 1 of the 4 tiles was gas.

Yeah thx I already started with testing co2 and chlorine. I have to rebuild the thing because the naphtha wasn't in direct contact with the oil, but there was a door in between because I made it 3 tiles high to fit an aquatuner below it. I'am going to rearrange stuff so the oil and naphtha are in direct contact. Also I used gold to build the tepidizer. I assume it is smarter to use wolframite as long as the oil/naphtha is cooled right?

[The Flying Fox]

@clickrush

If you're wanting to mess with the tepidizer as a heating device, you could take a look at the device I posted here.

As for what metal ore to build the tepidizer out of, I would still leave it as gold amalgam.  You actually want to use a material with low thermal conductivity, in this case.  The tepidizer works by creating an 'exhaust' heat that directly heats the liquid/gas on the tiles around the machine, bypassing the normal conductivity of the liquid/gas.  This is why these pockets of air heat up so tremendously yet the machine does not.. at first.  Of the 4 ores, gold amalgam has the lowest ability to conduct and transfer heat, thus the tepidizer will resist heating up made with it from the super-heated air pocket.