Low to High Voltage

[B1ackfire]

Does anyone have a reliable way to transfer low voltage to high without overloads (like a backwards transformer).  Specifically I have two hamster wheels hooked up to a low voltage line (1kw) and have that directly into the high voltage line (20kw) and the low voltage keeps overloading.  Nothing else is on the low voltage line to have the power forced downstream.

Can post picks if necessary.

[NanoD]

Basically like this. You can only have 2 hamster wheels per transformer if you using standar wires. if you using Conductive wire you can have 5. 

[B1ackfire]

Ahh, thank you. Didn't know transformers worked in reverse now. Thank you.

[GuyPerfect]

They don't. A Power Transformer is a combination transformer and diode: power can only flow through them in one direction. By placing the Manual Generators on the input side, none of the power can feed back into the wire and overload the circuit.

I personally haven't experienced any overloading using standard Wire from a generator into a battery bank, though. Could you post a screenshot of the setup that was causing you troubles?

[NanoD]

27 minutes ago, GuyPerfect said:

They don't. A Power Transformer is a combination transformer and diode:

That is true but if you have a 1200 W generator you will deliver 1200 W and it will overload the circuit. you can test the my setup and put in 3 manual generators and you will se a overload.

[trukogre]

1 hour ago, GuyPerfect said:

 

I personally haven't experienced any overloading using standard Wire from a generator into a battery bank, though. Could you post a screenshot of the setup that was causing you troubles?

You can run any voltage over standard wire from generators into a battery bank.  However, if you put a transformer into between the generators and the battery bank, then you will be limited by the voltage capacity of the wire on the upstream(generator) side.

 

"A Power Transformer is a combination transformer and diode: power can only flow through them in one direction.By placing the Manual Generators on the input side, none of the power can feed back into the wire and overload the circuit."

This is not a useful description.  Power in ONI has neither voltage nor direction nor flow, except for the directionality through transformers.

 

 

 

[clickrush]

1 hour ago, NanoD said:

That is true but if you have a 1200 W generator you will deliver 1200 W and it will overload the circuit. you can test the my setup and put in 3 manual generators and you will se a overload.

Just to clarify: The reason for this is not power production. You can produce as much power in a circuit as you wish. The reason is consumption and the Power Transformer is effectively a consumer, it will suck out all the energy from the input through its output.

This also creates the issue that with this setup the wheels will reqest to be run indefinetely as long as there is power consumption on the side of the output of the transformer. The wheels are in a different circuit and cannot detect the batteries on the other side of the transformer. This issue isn't simply solved by adding batteries to the wheel circuit because as long as output side is not generating more power than it's consuming it will drain the batteries on the wheel/input side first.

In other words the transformer acts greedy and sucks on the input side as much as it can.

I think this type of setup can only be properly solved after the automation update, since you can shut off wires. In this case you would shut the wire between the wheels and the transformer

1 hour ago, GuyPerfect said:

(...)

I personally haven't experienced any overloading using standard Wire from a generator into a battery bank, though. Could you post a screenshot of the setup that was causing you troubles?

That is only the case if the grid on the output side of your transformer is producing enough power so the transformer never draws more than 1k.

[BlueLance]

6 hours ago, clickrush said:

Just to clarify: The reason for this is not power production. You can produce as much power in a circuit as you wish. The reason is consumption and the Power Transformer is effectively a consumer, it will suck out all the energy from the input through its output.

Ehh I think this might have changed, I have been using the same set-up for ages, and all of a sudden my Power Producers are now also causing short circuits, I had 2 coal generators set up and always have to feed my batteries, sometimes I have 4, and they never used to short circuit, Now they have been so I had to use 2kw wire XD

[clickrush]

4 hours ago, BlueLance said:

Ehh I think this might have changed, I have been using the same set-up for ages, and all of a sudden my Power Producers are now also causing short circuits, I had 2 coal generators set up and always have to feed my batteries, sometimes I have 4, and they never used to short circuit, Now they have been so I had to use 2kw wire XD

So you are not suddenly using more power? As I said, in this wheel => transformer setup, if the power consumption - production on the output side is > 1k at any given time then the transformer will overload the wheel side. Obviously if you put any additional consumers on the extended grid then this will happen increasingly. Another reason might be consumers just working more, for example if you add more dupes to your colony then some of the machines will naturally do more work like anything that is hooked up into sanitation or oxygen generation inside your base.

[BlueLance]

2 minutes ago, clickrush said:

So you are not suddenly using more power? As I said, in this wheel => transformer setup, if the power consumption - production on the output side is > 1k at any given time then the transformer will overload the wheel side. Obviously if you put any additional consumers on the extended grid then this will happen increasingly. Another reason might be consumers just working more, for example if you add more dupes to your colony then some of the machines will naturally do more work like anything that is hooked up into sanitation or oxygen generation inside your base.

I am actually using less power but I never use a transformer between my Producers and the batteries, only between the batteries and the consumers because they were not originally added to the total strain on the cable. 

Thats why I believe they might have changed it so that they do add strain to the wires, Will need to run some tests though.

[clickrush]

Yeah that might be very well the case. I was talking specifically about the transformer setup.

[NealXu]

Hi,....i am a new user here. I will say the power can only flow through them in one direction. By placing the Manual Generators on the input side, none of the power can feed back into the wire and overload the circuit.I personally haven't experienced any overloading using standard Wire from a generator into a battery bank.

[trukogre]

25 minutes ago, NealXu said:

Hi,....i am a new user here. I will say the power can only flow through them in one direction. By placing the Manual Generators on the input side, none of the power can feed back into the wire and overload the circuit.I personally haven't experienced any overloading using standard Wire from a generator into a battery bank.

Power doesn't flow through a transformer in one direction, because power doesn't flow through a transformer at all.  power is moved by the transformer through handing buckets of energy from one side to the other, capacity of 1 kJ 4 times a second. Energy from two different buckets can't be combined to feed one machine which takes more than 1kW to run, because the transformer won't do it.  "feedback" doesn't happen in ONI.  You're referring to real life concepts that simply don't exist in this game.

I personally have experienced overloading using standard wire from a generator into a transformer.

[midjones]

On 11/8/2017 at 6:00 PM, NanoD said:

Basically like this. You can only have 2 hamster wheels per transformer if you using standar wires. if you using Conductive wire you can have 5. 

Funny, your screenshot has a 'Circuit Overloaded' notification. Are you sure you can have 2 hamster wheels on standard wire without overload?

[donutman07]

just tested it myself,  2 hamster wheels certainly works fine as its only 800W.  3 hamster wheels causes overloads.  It's not specifically because of the 3 wheels generating power, its that 1.2kW of power is being consumed now that 1.2kW of power is available to be consumed.

[LeadfootSlim]

The transformer method listed above is useful, but I found another method for the Smelter, specifically - or any other dupe-operated device.

Placing a Pressure Plate under the tile on which a Duplicant stands while working, and connecting that to a Power Shutoff, allows you to cut the Smelter off from the power grid while operating it. This might seem counterintuitive, but if you've got a small amount of conductive wire leading to a battery bank for the Smelter, it makes perfect sense. The battery bank can charge off the basic wire with no problems, and be segregated when the Smelter is drawing power so that it only uses the Conductive wire, which won't take damage from 1200w.

The same technique works for Oil Refineries, Rock Granulators, Exosuit Forges or Textile Looms (?) if you don't want them overloading an otherwise balanced circuit with their infrequent use. You don't even need conductive wire for those! And a similar method works for the Thermo Aquatuner if you connect the Aquatuner's "ON" automation input and a Power Shutoff to the same switch (though you need a NOT gate, I think?).

[The Flying Fox]

36 minutes ago, donutman07 said:

just tested it myself,  2 hamster wheels certainly works fine as its only 800W.  3 hamster wheels causes overloads.  It's not specifically because of the 3 wheels generating power, its that 1.2kW of power is being consumed now that 1.2kW of power is available to be consumed.

Okay, I thought I noticed something different about power.  It use to be that you could have any number of generators/batteries on a given standard wire and wire them directly to the transformers high side with no issues.  The transformers basically weren't counting as a 'consumer' before and I guess that was because they were/are a quasi one-directional battery.  They must have changed it in the code for transformers to count as an actual consumer for the purpose of circuit over-loading.

@LeadfootSlim 's idea to use the power shut off with a pressure plate is actually a pretty good one.  I'll think about trying that with my own refinery and high power devices.  Another thought might be to use a similar setup of pressure plates to shut off other devices so that only one can be used at a time.  Like the metal refinery and the oil refinery not being able to run at the same time, etc.

[donutman07]

59 minutes ago, LeadfootSlim said:

The transformer method listed above is useful, but I found another method for the Smelter, specifically - or any other dupe-operated device.

Placing a Pressure Plate under the tile on which a Duplicant stands while working, and connecting that to a Power Shutoff, allows you to cut the Smelter off from the power grid while operating it. This might seem counterintuitive, but if you've got a small amount of conductive wire leading to a battery bank for the Smelter, it makes perfect sense. The battery bank can charge off the basic wire with no problems, and be segregated when the Smelter is drawing power so that it only uses the Conductive wire, which won't take damage from 1200w.

The same technique works for Oil Refineries, Rock Granulators, Exosuit Forges or Textile Looms (?) if you don't want them overloading an otherwise balanced circuit with their infrequent use. You don't even need conductive wire for those! And a similar method works for the Thermo Aquatuner if you connect the Aquatuner's "ON" automation input and a Power Shutoff to the same switch (though you need a NOT gate, I think?).

just implemented this for my metal refinery and thermo aquatuners. Much nicer than having to turn off other devices to compensate.

 

One thing that bugs me about this, batteries don't count as consumers?  They just blindly suck up any 'extra' energy they can? Seems like when the batteries are reconnected to the circuit and have been drained, they should count as a consumer at the rate of any otherwise unused power, or some set maximum power draw (say 1kW or 2kW).  This would probably introduce some more overload issues though.

[LeadfootSlim]

1 hour ago, donutman07 said:

One thing that bugs me about this, batteries don't count as consumers?  They just blindly suck up any 'extra' energy they can? Seems like when the batteries are reconnected to the circuit and have been drained, they should count as a consumer at the rate of any otherwise unused power, or some set maximum power draw (say 1kW or 2kW).  This would probably introduce some more overload issues though.

Batteries seem to evenly split surplus power. So if you have 1000w coming off a transformer, and 900 watts is used by continuously-running devices, you'll have 100w of power left to go to batteries - be that one battery, or ten. I'm not sure if transformers split in the same way.

[trukogre]

2 hours ago, The Flying Fox said:

Okay, I thought I noticed something different about power.  It use to be that you could have any number of generators/batteries on a given standard wire and wire them directly to the transformers high side with no issues.  The transformers basically weren't counting as a 'consumer' before and I guess that was because they were/are a quasi one-directional battery.  They must have changed it in the code for transformers to count as an actual consumer for the purpose of circuit over-loading.

 

Transformers have gotten a ton of updates, they had some bugs where they were drawing way more power than necessary and just wasting it; and then the change you reference was more recent, not sure exactly when I'd guess maybe with outbreak update was when they started counting transformers as consumers.  there must be something complicated about their code for them to change so often