Make beefalo taming viable

[fimmatek]

2 minutes ago, spideswine said:

Does the game really work that way? Because from my understanding it doesn't, but I'm not 100% sure.

I read it more times on the forums and on steam. Also, I personally experience that the lag is much less when hosting a cave-less world, almost as good as in DS. Not however if caves are enabled. 

I think the reason for this system is because the forest and the caves are two different shards and therefore you (as a host) join it practically as a client but with host privileges. I'm not sure why and how is it exactely, I'm not an expert at this.

[DarkXero]

7 minutes ago, spideswine said:

If I had to place a bandaid on the current state of beefalo domestication

Well I would do more things to make beefalo domestication worth it. Even if they didn't untame I wouldn't bother.

I want to remove the domestication loss or make something different to remove the bandaid that is the domestication loss code. Which is like three layers of code bandaids to make the thing work (or look like it works 99.9% of the time).

[spideswine]

2 minutes ago, fimmatek said:

I read it more times on the forums and on steam. Also, I personally experience that the lag is much less when hosting a cave-less world, almost as good as in DS. Not however if caves are enabled.

Could be just your pc lagging from something resource intensive happening, instead of network lag.

3 minutes ago, fimmatek said:

I think the reason for this system is because the forest and the caves are two different shards and therefore you (as a host) join it practically as a client but with host privileges. I'm not sure why and how is it exactely, I'm not an expert at this.

I mean you can host worlds with caves playing offline.

In conclusion: Idk.

4 minutes ago, DarkXero said:

Well I would do more things to make beefalo domestication worth it.

I'm a bit curious as to the specifics of what you would change.

4 minutes ago, DarkXero said:

I want to remove the domestication loss or make something different to remove the bandaid that is the domestication loss code. Which is like three layers of code bandaids to make the thing work (or look like it works 99.9% of the time).

You want to remove something because you don't like the code? But if it works why fix it?

[reddocc]

klei is never gonna change this.

beefalos are equal to phlegm

[reddocc]

please someone make a mod

 

!!!!WAR SADDLE DOES 1 MORE DAMAGE!!!!!!

 

Depht worms does 1 lees damage

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=357599642

 

[spideswine]

2 hours ago, Pedrito said:

please someone make a mod

 

!!!!WAR SADDLE DOES 1 MORE DAMAGE!!!!!!

 

Depht worms does 1 lees damage

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=357599642

 

We're talking about a mod with literally one line of coding, I'm not sure I'm comfortable making such a mod.

[Starlogy]

10 hours ago, spideswine said:

Does the game really work that way? Because from my understanding it doesn't, but I'm not 100% sure.

you've avoided the lag dst has?

i envy you

[reddocc]

5 hours ago, spideswine said:

We're talking about a mod with literally one line of coding, I'm not sure I'm comfortable making such a mod.

1 line seems fine

[spideswine]

4 hours ago, StarmanNess said:

you've avoided the lag dst has?

i envy you

The added delay compared to original DS? No.

Supposed lag spikes when hosting? Yes.

4 hours ago, Pedrito said:

1 line seems fine

GLOBAL.TUNING.SADDLE_WAR_BONUS_DAMAGE = 17

[SaphironX]

I’m reading this thread and I don’t quite get the issue. Sure training my ornery war saddle beefalo wasn’t easy, but with two salt licks in a small side area my beefalo never loses domestication (I feed him sticks before riding and the occasional dragonpie for healing/because he’s awesome). Salt licks are all you need.

As maxwell he basically turns me into a 400 health darksword weilding, walking stick kiting speed, fighting machine. 

For heartier characters a riding beef with a glossimir saddle is a solid quicker alternative to my walking stick plus a meat shield for random damage. 

I love my beefalo. He’s situational to be sure but for characters who area squishy or low damage they’re great to have around.

My current one with maxwell is over 200 days old. We ride, he eats a few twigs each time we go out, and when one salt lick is depleated I replace it and I have 30 days of permanent domestication per set.

i think they’re well worth the effort.

[spideswine]

2 hours ago, SaphironX said:

I’m reading this thread and I don’t quite get the issue. Sure training my ornery war saddle beefalo wasn’t easy, but with two salt licks in a small side area my beefalo never loses domestication (I feed him sticks before riding and the occasional dragonpie for healing/because he’s awesome). Salt licks are all you need.

As maxwell he basically turns me into a 400 health darksword weilding, walking stick kiting speed, fighting machine. 

Which requires constant maintance, cannot be left alone and hence is a constant hindrance, and can't take his worthless ass underground, where you'd want his damage more.

And that doesn't benefit from roads, bone armor, wormholes, and has to be constantly gotten off and on off(and being fed) whenever you want to do anything which isn't fighting.

You being maxwell, how about use night armor instead, or bone armor+hat armor.

2 hours ago, SaphironX said:

For heartier characters a riding beef with a glossimir saddle is a solid quicker alternative to my walking stick plus a meat shield for random damage. 

Yes, for random damage above ground, which if he dies is a huge pain to replace, needs salt licks to maintain him, and is a constant hindrance.

2 hours ago, SaphironX said:

I love my beefalo.

And there's your problem, you love your master so much you ignore the fact he's abusing you.

2 hours ago, SaphironX said:

He’s situational to be sure but for characters who area squishy or low damage they’re great to have around.

Solo wes and wendy worlds, and that's where it ends, and even then it's for a small subset of players who both are capable of preventing the damned thing from getting itself killed, want to farm dfly(because that and klaus are more or less the only things he's good for, and since klaus is done once a year it's not much of an issue), oppose cheesing fuelweaver(otherwise getting two bone armors is fairly easy, negating all benefits to a beefalo), and are willing to put up with that thing.

So pretty much 0.01% of games or so.

2 hours ago, SaphironX said:

i think they’re well worth the effort.

Hell no.

[Toroic]

On 12/20/2017 at 8:18 PM, SaphironX said:

I’m reading this thread and I don’t quite get the issue. Sure training my ornery war saddle beefalo wasn’t easy, but with two salt licks in a small side area my beefalo never loses domestication (I feed him sticks before riding and the occasional dragonpie for healing/because he’s awesome). Salt licks are all you need.

As maxwell he basically turns me into a 400 health darksword weilding, walking stick kiting speed, fighting machine. 

For heartier characters a riding beef with a glossimir saddle is a solid quicker alternative to my walking stick plus a meat shield for random damage. 

I love my beefalo. He’s situational to be sure but for characters who area squishy or low damage they’re great to have around.

My current one with maxwell is over 200 days old. We ride, he eats a few twigs each time we go out, and when one salt lick is depleated I replace it and I have 30 days of permanent domestication per set.

i think they’re well worth the effort.

You’re way overestimating your beefalo.  For one, Beefs have high raw health but don’t have the mitigation.  Max in wood armor takes 375 damage before dying.  Most characters have effective health of 750 or above.

Secondly, magilum + cane is quite fast and I seriously question whether farming a glossamer saddle actually saves you time compared to wormholes + cane + magi, to say nothing of beefs having zero use underground.

Also, it sounds like you’re playing on a solo DST server which is when you can prevent your beef from dying much more reliably, but also a somewhat less common way to play.  Ornery beefs also

throw you off the most often even at full domestication, which neither makes sense or is pleasant.

I agree that once tamed there are some niche/convenient uses but agree with spideswine that the initial investment is far too high in time and resources for the return on that investment.

23 hours ago, spideswine said:

Which requires constant maintance, cannot be left alone and hence is a constant hindrance, and can't take his worthless ass underground, where you'd want his damage more.

And that doesn't benefit from roads, bone armor, wormholes, and has to be constantly gotten off and on off(and being fed) whenever you want to do anything which isn't fighting.

You being maxwell, how about use night armor instead, or bone armor+hat armor.

Yes, for random damage above ground, which if he dies is a huge pain to replace, needs salt licks to maintain him, and is a constant hindrance.

And there's your problem, you love your master so much you ignore the fact he's abusing you.

Solo wes and wendy worlds, and that's where it ends, and even then it's for a small subset of players who both are capable of preventing the damned thing from getting itself killed, want to farm dfly(because that and klaus are more or less the only things he's good for, and since klaus is done once a year it's not much of an issue), oppose cheesing fuelweaver(otherwise getting two bone armors is fairly easy, negating all benefits to a beefalo), and are willing to put up with that thing.

So pretty much 0.01% of games or so.

Hell no.

I think you’re neglecting that taming a beefalo briefly to move mysterious marble can easily provide overall time savings without undue effort or resources consumed.  That’s my primary way of using them (and then I kill them after) and I’d recommend it unless you get really favorable marble spawns.

[spideswine]

1 minute ago, Toros said:

I think you’re neglecting that taming a beefalo briefly to move mysterious marble can easily provide overall time savings without undue effort or resources consumed.  That’s my primary way of using them (and then I kill them after) and I’d recommend it unless you get really favorable marble spawns.

That goes without saying.

Mind you that's not really taming a beefalo, you just use it from 0% domestication till you're done(15-20%), then you kill it.

[Toroic]

22 minutes ago, spideswine said:

That goes without saying.

Mind you that's not really taming a beefalo, you just use it from 0% domestication till you're done(15-20%), then you kill it.

It’s not entirely the same but it’s very similar to the befriending that you can do with pigs, bunnymen, and rock lobsters.  Of course, the temporary nature and getting full benefits from the moment you give them resources fits the flow of the game a lot better.  If people tried to keep a pigman permanently befriended they’d find it was pretty inefficient too.

[spideswine]

2 hours ago, Toros said:

It’s not entirely the same but it’s very similar to the befriending that you can do with pigs, bunnymen, and rock lobsters.  Of course, the temporary nature and getting full benefits from the moment you give them resources fits the flow of the game a lot better.  If people tried to keep a pigman permanently befriended they’d find it was pretty inefficient too.

pigman/bunnyman befrieding has uses for the entirety of the game, to the entirety of the playerbase.

Beefalo befriending(not really taming) is only useful to those interested in fuelweaver, and is only done once, likely by only a single person as well, it's also clear that MUCH more resources went into it, yet the results are the most boring(pigman/etc have much more uses than carrying statues).

Also the pig doesn't constantly bother you by demanding food, it just leaves with the duration is done, it doesn't constantly annoy you with incessant demand of something it can get itself, nor is it as disloyal(beefalo really are terrible pets).

I think it's clear they've completely missed the mark with beefalo taming, and I think it's worth putting some extra resources into something which clearly already had a lot of resources placed into it(hell they still keep getting new animations, even though nobody uses them), so it wouldn't be so horrible.

[brbrmensch]

real world: domesticating wild animals was crucial point in making civilizations

don't starve world: meh, i'm ok with eating spiders

[ButterStuffed]

4 hours ago, Toros said:

You’re way overestimating your beefalo.  For one, Beefs have high raw health but don’t have the mitigation.  Max in wood armor takes 375 damage before dying.  Most characters have effective health of 750 or above.

Beefalo have 1000 health so wouldn't that mean they still have effectively more health than most characters wearing wood armor? Excuse me if I am misunderstanding.

 

4 hours ago, Toros said:

Ornery beefs also

throw you off the most often even at full domestication, which neither makes sense or is pleasant.

Where did you hear this? I can't find anywhere that says Ornery beefalo throw you off more often than any other tendency. Only that they won't let you on unless you give them atleast one piece of food.

[Toroic]

1 hour ago, Mikro said:

Beefalo have 1000 health so wouldn't that mean they still have effectively more health than most characters wearing wood armor? Excuse me if I am misunderstanding.

 

Where did you hear this? I can't find anywhere that says Ornery beefalo throw you off more often than any other tendency. Only that they won't let you on unless you give them atleast one piece of food.

At 1000 hp they would in fact have more effective health than many of the characters though considering that bone armor, crowns and night armor exist they’d fall off heavily lategame for everyone and for someone like Wolfgang, Wigfrid, Wx wouldn’t be useful by the time they could be tamed anyway.

Also, it looks like domestication affects the time before bucking and obedience affects the willingness to let you ride, so I may have been mistaken.  Still, for the amount of time and effort needed to tame a beefalo I don’t want to have to feed it treats to get basic functionality.

My issue with beefalo is that they are too expensive to tame until their usefulness has waned.

[Rellimarual]

For months or maybe even years, players dreamed and begged and longed for the ability to ride a beefalo. It was often described as the thing people most wished for in the game. When a bit of animation of Wilson riding one was released/got out, there was much excitement. So now we can ride beefalo. I don’t really understand what all the griping is about because in addition to riding beefalo you can also get a few additional benefits like speed or battle or sanity but the main point of riding beefalo is that you get to ride beefalo.

[brbrmensch]

2 hours ago, Mikro said:

Where did you hear this? I can't find anywhere that says Ornery beefalo throw you off more often than any other tendency. Only that they won't let you on unless you give them atleast one piece of food.

The obedience must be above 50% in order to ride the Beefalo.

With a minimum obedience of 45%, obedience must be actively maintained in order to be able to keep riding. Does not lose obedience on taking damage.

don't be that lazy guy

[spideswine]

2 hours ago, Mikro said:

Beefalo have 1000 health so wouldn't that mean they still have effectively more health than most characters wearing wood armor? Excuse me if I am misunderstanding.

Yes but add to that the fact healing them is a messy in a fight and that they are much MUCH more expensive to replace if they die than the player, and it makes them not worth it even in maxwells case.

also there's a point to be made about the balance being mostly deterimined by the top tier, and both wolfgand and wx with basic armor are much more durable than a beefalo, also so is wigfrid.

2 hours ago, Mikro said:

Where did you hear this? I can't find anywhere that says Ornery beefalo throw you off more often than any other tendency. Only that they won't let you on unless you give them atleast one piece of food.

Yeah I highly doubt they throw you off more, but having to feed them especially in a fight can be quite the nuisance(especially if they are aggroed n something), also it means they require resources to be used.

31 minutes ago, Rellimarual said:

For months or maybe even years, players dreamed and begged and longed for the ability to ride a beefalo. It was often described as the thing people most wished for in the game. When a bit of animation of Wilson riding one was released/got out, there was much excitement. So now we can ride beefalo. I don’t really understand what all the griping is about because in addition to riding beefalo you can also get a few additional benefits like speed or battle or sanity but the main point of riding beefalo is that you get to ride beefalo.

I think people wanted it to not be useless.

[Toroic]

1 hour ago, Rellimarual said:

For months or maybe even years, players dreamed and begged and longed for the ability to ride a beefalo. It was often described as the thing people most wished for in the game. When a bit of animation of Wilson riding one was released/got out, there was much excitement. So now we can ride beefalo. I don’t really understand what all the griping is about because in addition to riding beefalo you can also get a few additional benefits like speed or battle or sanity but the main point of riding beefalo is that you get to ride beefalo.

I personally never had much desire to ride beefalo and other than culling their numbers or getting winter clothing my interaction with beefalo is limited because the only thing that they’re uniquely useful for is hauling heavy items.

But my fiancee and I generally don’t play in worlds past the start of the megabase phase where resources are abundant and challenge is gone.

[Mario384]

I feel that for everything you do for the Beefalo, you really don't get anything out of it.  I just think Klei doesn't know how to make these things properly at all, seeing how smallbirds work (Even though the lavae wasn't so bad)

[Rellimarual]

The point of smallbirds is that they are pointless.

No mention was ever made of how useful riding beefalo would or could be. People just thought it would be cool.

[spideswine]

56 minutes ago, Mario384 said:

I feel that for everything you do for the Beefalo, you really don't get anything out of it.  I just think Klei doesn't know how to make these things properly at all, seeing how smallbirds work (Even though the lavae wasn't so bad)

That's actually a pretty good point, on one hand just how hard can it be?

On the other hand anything which is supposed to be some sort of a pet in this game is absolutely insufferable.