Torturous Chlorine

[BuyNLarge]

Chlorine should give some disease such as "ChlorineLung" or something else, after chlorine is breathed in by duplicants. Based on the game saying that chlorine is toxic (when it isn't to duplicants) and chlorine is toxic in real life, it should harm duplicants. Therefore, (if this was added) there would another good use for the new  addition, the atmo suit. Although most people now would use the atmo suit in chlorine filled areas, there would be a consequence if someone didn't use it, or if your base was contaminated with it.

[The Plum Gate]

10 hours ago, MathPenguinTv said:

Chlorine should give some disease such as "ChlorineLung" or something else, after chlorine is breathed in by duplicants. Based on the game saying that chlorine is toxic (when it isn't to duplicants) and chlorine is toxic in real life, it should harm duplicants. Therefore, (if this was added) there would another good use for the new  addition, the atmo suit. Although most people now would use the atmo suit in chlorine filled areas, there would be a consequence if someone didn't use it, or if your base was contaminated with it.

They hold their breath in anything that isn't breathable. Chlorine is highly toxic ( to germs ).

[Michi01]

11 hours ago, MathPenguinTv said:

Chlorine should give some disease such as "ChlorineLung" or something else, after chlorine is breathed in by duplicants. Based on the game saying that chlorine is toxic (when it isn't to duplicants) and chlorine is toxic in real life, it should harm duplicants.

It should just directly harm them instead of giving them a disease. The effect could be called "chemical burn".

11 hours ago, MathPenguinTv said:

Therefore, (if this was added) there would another good use for the new  addition, the atmo suit. Although most people now would use the atmo suit in chlorine filled areas, there would be a consequence if someone didn't use it, or if your base was contaminated with it.

I'm assuming the reason why the developers didn't initially make chlorine toxic is that players would've had no way to handle it. Now that we have atmo suits I'm also hoping that they'll make it toxic, perhaps they're hesitating because they don't want things from the chlorine biome to be locked behind access to suits.

1 hour ago, The Plum Gate said:

They hold their breath in anything that isn't breathable. Chlorine is highly toxic ( to germs ).

You don't need to breathe in chlorine for it to be harmful to you, it's already extremely dangerous if it comes in contact with your skin.

[brummbar7]

28 minutes ago, Michi01 said:

I'm assuming the reason why the developers didn't initially make chlorine toxic is that players would've had no way to handle it. Now that we have atmo suits I'm also hoping that they'll make it toxic, perhaps they're hesitating because they don't want things from the chlorine biome to be locked behind access to suits.

Ya, I think this is the pickle they're in right now.   They've set things up so breaking into the chlorine biome before slime is pretty heavily encouraged.  If chlorine were caustic you'd have to break into the slime biome first for reed fiber.  it could probably work in the current iteration since research is very quick.  It would force people to deal with slimelung at first without as easy of access to chlorine, which I'm guessing would not be well received, and would be disastrous for newbs.  And if the research timeline is ever extended that could cause other problems.  It's really unfortunate because chlorine could have been a serious noxious gas providing a good challenge, attacking dupes and metallic items.  As it is, I don't really see them ever implementing such a thing, without a major progression revamp, including a new biome to take the place of most of the start-adjacent chlorine biomes.

[The Plum Gate]

2 hours ago, Michi01 said:

You don't need to breathe in chlorine for it to be harmful to you, it's already extremely dangerous if it comes in contact with your skin.

Uh hu, but these are duplicants - not humans. And for all intents and purposes its toxicity is towards germs in this game. Typically chlorine causes all kinds of problems - including corrosion and damage to machinery - so I doubt that they'll be making it hyper-realistic any time soon. As such it remains in the unbreathable gas category and so they don't breath it.

Now, some sort of debuff like "burning eyeballs" or scalding "chemical burns" when running through chlorine would more appropriately align with systems already in place.

 

[The Plum Gate]

Perhaps I'll just restate my initial reply, since it's been quoted, and elaborate.

They hold their breath in anything that isn't breathable - right now chlorine isn't in the breathable category, so there would be no chlorine lung - instead there would be "something else". Chlorine is highly toxic ( to germs ) - in the game.

Real life comparisons are a moot point when when gasses simply don't mix in the simulation - the duplicants can either breath a gas or not, and they're either in it or not. So some duration of exposure similar to the hot/cold system would work best.

[Vincie]

AS A SEER I SEE

There will be a chemical update, so natural gas/hydrogen will be able to explode after contact with oxygen and chlorine will burn out dupes eyeballs. Have more faith, the end is nigh.

[Michi01]

1 hour ago, The Plum Gate said:

Uh hu, but these are duplicants - not humans. And for all intents and purposes its toxicity is towards germs in this game. Typically chlorine causes all kinds of problems - including corrosion and damage to machinery - so I doubt that they'll be making it hyper-realistic any time soon. As such it remains in the unbreathable gas category and so they don't breath it.

Now, some sort of debuff like "burning eyeballs" or scalding "chemical burns" when running through chlorine would more appropriately align with systems already in place.

I think you misunderstood me, that's exactly what I suggested.

[Michi01]

6 hours ago, brummbar7 said:

Ya, I think this is the pickle they're in right now.   They've set things up so breaking into the chlorine biome before slime is pretty heavily encouraged.  If chlorine were caustic you'd have to break into the slime biome first for reed fiber.  it could probably work in the current iteration since research is very quick.  It would force people to deal with slimelung at first without as easy of access to chlorine, which I'm guessing would not be well received, and would be disastrous for newbs.

Is chlorine actually really needed that much for noobs to deal with slimelung? This is not a rhetorical question, I'm genuinely unsure about it. I've never really used chlorine itself outside of preserving food, I don't imagine it being that helpful because it would clutter up bases with unbreathable clouds that can only be removed by pumping and filtering. Getting rid of polluted oxygen and with it slimelung germs is already quite easy with deodorizers, I would assume easier and cheaper than with chlorine. If we take away the utility for killing slimelung germs I actually don't see that much of a need to keep it non-caustic.
Using it for food storage is overpowered anyway and making it caustic would give that a well deserved nerf (it would still not be difficult to use in late game with the help of atmo suits, also all other currently sterile gases should slow spoilage instead of stopping it along with a nerf like this).
Ore scrubbers are more of a late game thing and if a player really needs them before having access to atmo suits, they could probably sacrifice a small amount of dupe health by letting their dupes rush into a chamber of chlorine to install a pump.
Pincha peppers also seem alright, they're only used for luxury food and if they were ever made to require chlorine for growth, their growth time could be decreased while their yield is increased, to end up with the same amount of pepper nuts while dupes have to enter chlorine to harvest them less often.
The only problem I see left is balm lilies, since they are definitely very useful for people having issues with slimelung. If they were the only thing preventing chlorine from being made caustic though, they could probably be renamed to swamp lilies (that was what they were before being implemented) and moved to the swamp biome, where players will be able to gain access to them as soon as they need them. While this would make the chlorine biome even more barren and the swamp biome even fuller of desirable things, I'm sure there's plenty of potential for things to be added to the former.
As for exploration, I think it's just as possible to avoid pockets of chlorine while digging through the chlorine biome as it is to avoid pockets of pressurized polluted oxygen while digging through the swamp biome.
So all in all, I think if some adjustments were made, it might actually be possible to make chlorine caustic without taking away too much. Although as I said, I'm uncertain about the importance of chlorine for inexperienced players in the early game.

[God 2.0]

Inexperienced, new player here!

I've played the game twice-ish so far. My first game has me at cycle 72, currently struggling with a messy, unplanned base, trying to replenish my dwindling water reserves. I've eaten a good chunk out of the nearest slime biome, keeping up 3 slime converters and 1 polluted water pump pumping into my main pollution room, and 2 water cleaners running nonstop from there.

So far I have found little use for the chlorine biome. I was expecting it to be very dangerous, with chlorine being extremely toxic and nasty IRL, but found it to be trivial, which is a bit disappointing.
So far I've mined some bleach stone, and put up a few hand sanitizers at the base entry points from the slime biome, but I am not really sure how useful these are anyway, considering slimelung is mainly an airborne threat? I also placed an ore scrubber in there, but didn't find it neccessary. I always keep an eye out for germ counts, and withdraw airlock rights for any dupe who's losing immunity too quickly. No problems with slimelung so far, and no outbreaks.

My biggest problem right now is that my air cooling system for my berry plants no longer keep them cool enough. I have to improve the system, just need to find a good place to vent the excess heat.

My second game is much more planned ahead, and I've broken into the chlorine biome first, but mainly to dig up pepper plants and some iron and such. My pantry consists of a small hole in the ground and a food box, filled with CO2, and covered up by a sideways airlock. No need for chlorine to keep my food nice and crispy. Not really sure what to use the chlorine biome for really.

So, those are my views as a beginner. Oh, and I play at normal settings.

[goboking]

A chemical burn ailment doesn't have to be so harsh that it dissuades players from entering purple biomes without exo suits.  We already send dupes into cold biomes without warm vests despite the risk of hypothermia and into oil biomes without cool jackets despite the risk of heat exhaustion.  A chemical burn debuff in line with those debuffs, something that encourages but doesn't necessitate protective clothing, would do just fine, in my opinion.

[brummbar7]

2 hours ago, Michi01 said:

Is chlorine actually really needed that much for noobs to deal with slimelung?

Well, I was mainly thinking in terms of chlorine storage, but I guess now that I think of it since slimelung no longer occupies every tile of the swamp biome, that's probably not so big a deal as it might have once been.  Along the same vein, ore scrubbers for keeping algae clean, but again not every single tile of swamp biome is necessarily occupied now so....maybe not.   God2.0 will have a better line on it than me I guess.  I would definitely love to see chlorine as an actual threat.   But then again, I'd also like for disease to be an actual threat as well.

[BuyNLarge]

13 hours ago, The Plum Gate said:

They hold their breath in anything that isn't breathable. Chlorine is highly toxic ( to germs ).

Yes, I agree! That's totally true, but I was just using that as an example. As chlorine can burn your skin, your eye balls and other stuff! Chlorine is very harmful in many different ways.

[The Plum Gate]

32 minutes ago, MathPenguinTv said:

Yes, I agree! That's totally true, but I was just using that as an example. As chlorine can burn your skin, your eye balls and other stuff! Chlorine is very harmful in many different ways.

Absolutely. ..in my initial post was simply refering to how it is/was treated currently. I'm tending to completely agree with everyone who's quoted me here above.

Earlier I had replied to @Michi01, without reading anything above the fold where I was quoted in that post, and I basically missed the context.

I do hope theres more to it. The thermal comfort in chlorine - even when it's still hot, doesn't trigger heat stroke because the lowest conductivity is used when thermal transfer occurs - I start scratching my head, its immersion breaking.

But I look at the last two months and it went from useless to genuinely interesting over a short period of time.

[BuyNLarge]

5 minutes ago, The Plum Gate said:

Absolutely. ..in my initial post was simply refering to how it is/was treated currently. I'm tending to completely agree with everyone who's quoted me here above.

Earlier I had replied to @Michi01, without reading anything above the fold where I was quoted in that post, and I basically missed the context.

I do hope theres more to it. The thermal comfort in chlorine - even when it's still hot, doesn't trigger heat stroke because the lowest conductivity is used when thermal transfer occurs - I start scratching my head, its immersion breaking.

But I look at the last two months and it went from useless to genuinely interesting over a short period of time.

Mhm.. You just gave me another point in this idea! Chlorine is useful in its low thermal conductivity right? Well, there should be a cost on using chlorine, you would need to use atmo suits (which require power and oxygen to run) So, you are actually using up power and oxygen to use chlorine! 

[BuyNLarge]

9 minutes ago, The Plum Gate said:

Absolutely. ..in my initial post was simply refering to how it is/was treated currently. I'm tending to completely agree with everyone who's quoted me here above.

Earlier I had replied to @Michi01, without reading anything above the fold where I was quoted in that post, and I basically missed the context.

I do hope theres more to it. The thermal comfort in chlorine - even when it's still hot, doesn't trigger heat stroke because the lowest conductivity is used when thermal transfer occurs - I start scratching my head, its immersion breaking.

But I look at the last two months and it went from useless to genuinely interesting over a short period of time.

Mhm.. You just gave me another point in this idea! Chlorine is useful in its low thermal conductivity right? Well, there should be a cost on using chlorine, you would need to use atmo suits (which require power and oxygen to run) So, you are actually using up power and oxygen to use chlorine! So that would mean that you would need to be more late game to use chlorine (such as water purifiers using space heaters and chlorine) I think that would be cool because before you do that, you will need to use the water purifiers given by klei entertainment.

[The Plum Gate]

A middle ground might be another type of clothing from the textile loom - general cleanroom attire - low end clean suits, or cover-alls. Some basic protective clothing for caustic environments.

Or a different type of exosuit.

The exosuit is really just a bunch of insulation with an air tank specifically ( right now at least ) designed to thwart the hot cold system.

So perhaps the anti caustic exosuit would be made from reed fiber and gold amalgam rather than copper.

[Executive_Lurker]

16 hours ago, brummbar7 said:

major progression revamp

I hope this happens regardless 

[iCaughtFireOnce]

I always assumed that Klei was intending to add additional effects to some of the gasses (and maybe more gasses). Things like Natural Gas are marked as "flammable" but as far as I know, this does nothing. I believe hydrogen can also be quite hazardous, and so can pure Oxygen for that matter (although I wouldn't want that to be made explosive in the context of the game since it can't actually be diluted in other gasses).