Is the number of Geysers capped in the new update?

[Whispershade]

4 hours ago, Saturnus said:

Note that geyser output is now 150g/s on average, so it's 2.5 NGGs per geyser.

When did that change? The wiki still claims 100g/s average 60 for 1 [generator] and 40 for another. 1.666.

https://oxygennotincluded.gamepedia.com/Natural_Gas_Geyser

It very well may have changed, but I haven't seen any mention of it, personally. Can you point me to the accurate information?

[Risu]

8 minutes ago, Whispershade said:

When did that change? The wiki still claims 100g/s average 60 for 1 geyser and 40 for another. 1.666.

https://oxygennotincluded.gamepedia.com/Natural_Gas_Geyser

It very well may have changed, but I haven't seen any mention of it, personally. Can you point me to the accurate information?

It's 0.1666666667 kg/s for steam, natural gas, and chlorine. Not that steam counts since it isn't the important part of that geyser.
 

[Whispershade]

2 minutes ago, Risu said:

It's 0.1666666667 kg/s for steam, natural gas, and chlorine. Not that steam counts since it isn't the important part of that geyser.
 

So they have increased the average output for natural gas by 2/3rds? Was that when they switched the model?

[Saturnus]

18 minutes ago, Whispershade said:

When did that change? The wiki still claims 100g/s average 60 for 1 geyser and 40 for another. 1.666.

https://oxygennotincluded.gamepedia.com/Natural_Gas_Geyser

It very well may have changed, but I haven't seen any mention of it, personally. Can you point me to the accurate information?

Not beyond having tested it in debug mode. The method was simple. Make a 32 tiles vacuum around the geyser. Then at the start of a cycle count the amount of NG and repaint in a vacuum. I did that for 6 cycles to account for not pausing accurately enough at each cycle start even though I would run it on slow when it got near. The average I got was 89888g per cycle which is 149.8133(3)g/s. I think that is close enough to saying it produces 150g/s.

However, while writing this I noticed Risu replied with an even higher number that does not match my actual test results. I'm not sure why the test result doesn't not match the theoretical numbers set in the code but gas flow could have some effect. Suffice to say, I cannot replicate the theoretical 166.666(6)g/s in actual tests. 150g/s seems to be the actual limit.

[Risu]

39 minutes ago, Saturnus said:

However, while writing this I noticed Risu replied with an even higher number that does not match my actual test results. I'm not sure why the test result doesn't not match the theoretical numbers set in the code but gas flow could have some effect. Suffice to say, I cannot replicate the theoretical 166.666(6)g/s in actual tests. 150g/s seems to be the actual limit.

Just measured an eruption and got 44250 grams instead of the expected 45000.
Still not 150g/s but I suspect it's possible that the geyser is failing at reaching it's target.

Considering the state machine is running on a 0.2 second interval and the simulator is running at a 0.25 second interval,
they might just be interrupting the eruption too early.

Edit: Yep.
0.75 * 60 = 45
0.75 * 59 = 44.25

Edit 2: Oh and I see where you're getting 150g/s from. The interval is 270 seconds which makes it 2.22222222 eruptions per cycle. If you drop it down to 2 you get 0.15 instead of 0.166667. So would have to count the mass for 9 cycles. 20 eruptions whole.
 

[Whispershade]

42 minutes ago, Risu said:

Edit 2: Oh and I see where you're getting 150g/s from. The interval is 270 seconds which makes it 2.22222222 eruptions per cycle. If you drop it down to 2 you get 0.15 instead of 0.166667. So would have to count the mass for 9 cycles. 20 eruptions whole.

So the average over 9 cycles when you account for the short changing the eruption over a 9 cycle period is 163.8889g/s. enough to serve 2.6667 generators prior to the fertilizer loop. I guess that expands the size of the power generation loop you can make.

[Saturnus]

55 minutes ago, Risu said:

Edit 2: Oh and I see where you're getting 150g/s from. The interval is 270 seconds which makes it 2.22222222 eruptions per cycle. If you drop it down to 2 you get 0.15 instead of 0.166667. So would have to count the mass for 9 cycles. 20 eruptions whole.
 

Ah. So I was just unlucky through the cycles I ran not to have one with 3 eruptions that would have thrown the numbers off. Well, it's good to see my numbers were actually correct even though the end result wasn't. So that means each geyser can supply 2.73148(148) NGGs. Given that a fertilizer maker can supply 0.333(3) NGGs that makes it a bit off an odd ball number. I think I'll just stick one fertilizer maker in the mix and call it an even 3.

[Lifegrow]

Sorry for the lack of replies - currently moving home and without internet - the pain is real... 

On 30/08/2017 at 7:14 PM, Whispershade said:

Air scrubbers are absent, oxygen generation is over generous by a lot. While 5kg/s is closer to 4.5kg of o2, even 4kg/s is enough for 40 dupes. Why grow both blossoms and wheet? You would need more than a whole water geyser to grow enough zero quality blossoms for 10, thats probably the cheapest to meet expectations outside of mushrooms.

I did say this was a quick example.... Not sure why Air Scrubbers (carbon skimmers*) are important, I either liquefy or use my CO2 rather than destroying it  And yes, 5 electrolyzers would be emitting a surplus of O2 - however hydrogen gens are very much worthwhile due to the NGG cap, and I also like to oxygenate my worlds - especially with the germ-killing perks that come with doing so. As ever Whisper, you forget i'm not a new player - my play style may differ from yours - but I do know what i'm doing  

On 30/08/2017 at 8:21 PM, Saturnus said:

@Lifegrow ... as usual you can supplement the geyser water supply with vomit comets and ugly crier tears.

Indeed you can buddy, however I like to run a tight ship - no sickness, no tears, no puking in the swimming pool if you would be so kind....

On 31/08/2017 at 1:54 AM, trukogre said:

As Whispershade mentioned, 4.5 kg of oxygen per second is 45 dupes.  I don't think most people in this forum consider 45 dupes to be a small/medium colony, they consider that to be a "so much larger than large that my computer dies trying to run it" size.  To me small is 4-6, medium is 12, large is 20+.  So, let's run the numbers for a medium colony, if we say 12 dupes is medium.  

1 Electrolyzer = 1kg/s water.  The rest comes from your po2 condenser, which you're building because you want to utilize every aspect of the game.

5 bristle blossom = 0.65 kg/s water

10 sleet wheat = .33 kg/s water

5 pincha peppers = .29 kg/s water

10 mealworms  and 10 mushrooms = 0 water, we use these for some of our food because we want to show our viewers every aspect of the game, not just the aspects that use water.  The above food should be plenty for 12 dupes.

bathrooms and showers = these produce more water than they use, once you run the pwater through a boiler, which is now easy to do thanks to the aquatuner.

6 NGGs with gas from 2 NG geysers + carbon skimmer = these produce more water than they use, as above.  

so that's food, oxygen, sanitation and power...that's everything.  I'm not sure you even need a steam geyser at all for this colony, considering that power and sanitation actually produces water, not consumes it.  I think you probably do, I think the production from the last 2 is only about half what you need, although if you do use a steam geyser, then you can run all that pwater into a Fert Maker farm, and run 12 NGGs instead of 6.  I really don't see the problem here, it seems to me that you could run a 24 dupe colony easily off just 1 geyser, and 50 dupes with both; if you're willing to use an equal distribution of food, and not just the water hungry ones.

I hate to burst your bubble here, so i'll be gentle  A lot of people on this forum do indeed run 30-40+ colonies (you only have to look at the "show us your colony" thread to know this!). My average is probably around the 24-28 region, however I have also been one of those fools who did an "accept every dupe" colony and surpassed the 100 dupe mark... My medium colony would be 16-20, so let's not be too judgemental  However, this is all besides the point - you're assuming that oxygen must only be produced for dupes to breathe... What about planting rooms? What about pressurising your asteroid? What about over producing for the sake of surplus hydrogen? Power is good don't forget....

"PO2 condensers" as you call them, well lets just say I've built more than my share... So many that now they've become somewhat boring to build - and certainly not a challenge (mostly live on stream might I add). With the newfound lack of natural gas geysers (3 gas gens + a fert maker per geyser), and likewise the finite water supply - giant fertilizer farms are a thing of the past, as are excessive power plants with which to fund the creation/heating of liquid O2 for any tangible purpose other than cooling stuff down  Before anyone say's it - I know it can be min-maxed to high hell, however it still doesn't fill the void that a fistful of electrolyzers can  

Mealwoods and mushrooms - you're quite right, they require no water - however mushrooms are increasingly finite, owing to the lowered presence of slime (yes, I can farm pufts if I really cared to....) and mealwoods alone? Well... they're just scrub-tier-easy surely?

Showers produce no gain of water, so i'm assuming you're referring to lavatories - which I obviously use, however the gain of 6.7kg per visit is hardly ground breaking... (Just FYI - No need to run pwater through a boiler - I find cooling works far better!)

Anyways, all this crap aside - to elaborate on my original post - I'm not saying it isn't possible to cultivate a colony from the 2:2:1 ratio we now have in place - what I'm saying is it somewhat governs what sort of colonies we can build. I might not always want to build an asteroid filling-borg-cube of doom, however sometimes I might... To have that option taken away from me without explanation/reason is a little saddening to me.

Hope that explains my original post a little better - again, i'm without internet currently so don't expect any further replies

See you soon folks! 

 

[Whispershade]

5 minutes ago, Lifegrow said:

As ever Whisper, you forget i'm not a new player - my play style may differ from yours - but I do know what i'm doing  

I don't forget, but I my communication style probably comes across more confrontation than I intend. It was more trying to understand where you are coming from and challenging numbers that don't seem right to me.

I also probably think in a more conservative manner regarding my dupes. For example, with electrolyzers, I do not account for over production of oxygen to produce hydrogen for power because I come with the assumption the space will eventually be filled and the dupes are the only meaningful way of removing oxygen. So hydrogen output will depend on the number of dupes you're maintaining, eventually. Outside of powering electrolyzer loops I don't even consider hydrogen generators a power source because I don't feel they're very dependable.

Good luck with the move.  In the event you can't read this until after. Hope you had good luck with the move.

[Coolthulhu]

15 hours ago, Ciderblock said:

Doesn't item-dirt also turn into tile-dirt above certain mass? That was my concern. Preventing sand formation shouldn't be a big deal as far as I know.

I haven't seen that happen. It almost certainly doesn't happen from dirt items dropping onto dirt items, meaning that even if it does happen, you could avoid it by not evaporating the lowest line of water and having all dirt fall at least one tile.

[cpy]

I liked my maps with 4-6 water + 4-6 NG geysers, 1-2 chlorine would be more than enough i think. I can live with 2 NG but i need water :(.

 

Member when we had no geysers? Yeah I member and no heat damage and battery boilers.