Helping Public Servers Survive: the veteran system

[UberBonisseur]

Hello friends,

 

 

I like Survival in public servers. You meet strangers, you teach things and experience all sorts of adventures. It's really nice. However, the way public servers work, they have a very short lifespan; they rarely go past Winter.

 

This isn't because the players are bad, it's because the server keeps running in the background.

 

In a typical public DST game, you start in early autumn, most people join in, you scavenge and prepare for winter. This alone takes at least two hours of playtime (since one day is about 8 minutes). When you finally decide log off, hoping to come back to your base tomorrow, the server will be back to square one.

 

Why ? Because if a single player joins the server and dies, it will inevitably reset. This could be a griefer, but most likely it is a clueless new player who joins during winter and gets killed by hounds or freezing. A simple mistake can destroy even the sturdiest server.

As a result, it's almost impossible to see Spring, Summer or even Autumn2 on public servers.

 

So, what would be the solution to all this ? How could both keep a server alive, but also let new players in during off-hours ? Here's a solution:

 

The veteran system

 

Players who have survived more than 20 days earn the "Veteran" status. They are actively involved in the world's growth, which makes them the "main" players of this Public server. Thus, the server will only reset when all the players AND all veterans die, or when a vote passes.

 

-

 

 

 

So, new players can jump into the world at all times, but if they die, this doesn't impact the world veterans have spent time building and surviving on. This gives the opportunity for everyone to experience Late-game and all seasons. It's a way for Public servers to get more consistent and not die overnight.

 

 

Thoughts ?

[Zinglon]

Play on endless or wilderness would be better...

 

Hello friends,

 

 

I like Survival in public servers. You meet strangers, you teach things and experience all sorts of adventures. It's really nice. However, the way public servers work, they have a very short lifespan; they rarely go past Winter.

 

This isn't because the players are bad, it's because the server keeps running in the background.

 

In a typical public DST game, you start in early autumn, most people join in, you scavenge and prepare for winter. This alone takes at least two hours of playtime (since one day is about 8 minutes). When you finally decide log off, hoping to come back to your base tomorrow, the server will be back to square one.

 

Why ? Because if a single player joins the server and dies, it will inevitably reset. This could be a griefer, but most likely it is a clueless new player who joins during winter and gets killed by hounds or freezing. A simple mistake can destroy even the sturdiest server.

As a result, it's almost impossible to see Spring, Summer or even Autumn2 on public servers.

 

So, what would be the solution to all this ? How could both keep a server alive, but also let new players in during off-hours ? Here's a solution:

 

The veteran system

 

Players who have survived more than 20 days earn the "Veteran" status. They are actively involved in the world's growth, which makes them the "main" players of this Public server. Thus, the server will only reset when all the players AND all veterans die, or when a vote passes.

 

-

 

 

 

So, new players can jump into the world at all times, but if they die, this doesn't impact the world veterans have spent time building and surviving on. This gives the opportunity for everyone to experience Late-game and all seasons. It's a way for Public servers to get more consistent and not die overnight.

 

 

Thoughts ?

 

[Maris]

What if veteran won't come back?

[Arcita]

What if veteran won't come back?

Exactly this. Just because someone spends 20 days in a server doesn't necessarily mean they want to continue indefinitely. If this were to work, I think people would have to opt-in to being veterans. Like after 20 days have passed, you are presented with the option to become a veteran. 

 

But really, this is completely unnecessary. If you want a long-lasting world then play endless or wilderness. Klei already thought of this and implemented modes for this exact problem. It's just that not many people use them because they aren't default. 

[UberBonisseur]

Exactly this. Just because someone spends 20 days in a server doesn't necessarily mean they want to continue indefinitely.

 

I said:

 

the server will only reset when all the players AND all veterans die, or when a vote passes.

 

You can still vote to reset !

 

If you want a long-lasting world then play endless or wilderness

 

Wilderness and Endless do not have a losing condition or Game Over, thus death is meaningless and without consequence on those servers. Thus they are not challenging and mostly for Sandbox or PvP purposes.

 

What I'm talking about, is the ability for Public Survival Servers to go beyond Winter, which is almost never the case since you'd need to be playing for over 4 hours straight. Or even being able to continue the day after you've logged off; I have almost never seen a Public Server survive the night. The real-life night, not the one in game.

[Arcita]

What I'm talking about, is the ability for Public Survival Servers to go beyond Winter, which is almost never the case since you'd need to be playing for over 4 hours straight. Or even being able to continue the day after you've logged off; I have almost never seen a Public Server survive the night. The real-life night, not the one in game.

I guarantee that a majority of the time you'll have at least one "veteran" who never returns and the world effectively becomes endless. In endless mode, you have to decide to reset it just like you'd have to via voting in your proposed veteran mode, which evaporates your desired consequences. I like the spirit behind the proposal, but I don't think it would end up working the way you envision it, at least without any amendments. 

[Gingerbread]

well I am not sure if the 3rd person in that screen shot is me .. Anyways for the suggestion I would say not this but something different mayyyy be implemented. But i dont think it is really the correct time to think about this .Before this, devs should finish working on caves beta. Still master and slave servers are kinda independent and they reset separately which is game breaking... For me starting all over in public survival servers is not really bad.. I am used to it.. Always starting all over and i like the beginning of the game more than mid or late game which makes everything extremely boring cuz you have everything and 90% time ur at the same spot especially if u survived for a year.

[absimiliard]

For what it is worth:  my Survival server has gone multiple real-life days a few times.  I think the record was 4 days, iirc.  So it IS possible.  That said, I think my players were conspiring to beat the old record, as I informed them there was one.

 

So I'd say it depends on the server and it's player-base.

[UberBonisseur]

I guarantee that a majority of the time you'll have at least one "veteran" who never returns and the world effectively becomes endless. In endless mode, you have to decide to reset it just like you'd have to via voting in your proposed veteran mode, which evaporates your desired consequences

 

In endless mode, you have infinite respawns at portal, so I don't know what you're trying to say

Should you die, you'd be a ghost like normal Survival

[Gingerbread]

This thing is partially correct. I mean there should be some system because, as you mentioned this is a game that you cannot stay in server if you have something to do even if this is going to the washroom you have to leave server and while you are away, only 1 person can reset the whole progress which is a bummer. Resetting whole server should not depend on only 1 person even he is the only one in the server.

[UberBonisseur]

As I pointed out, it's not even a malicious intent, it can be a beginner joining a server randomly, not really knowing what he's supposed to do, in a world where the more available resources have all been dug up, and the guy dies two days later, reseting your server because he was the only player at that time

[TemporaryMan]

And all veterans die?  Because hypothetically someone could be a veteran on two servers, only signing into the second when the first one's full.  And hypothetically someone could have 102 hours played and 0 deaths.  So Absimilaird and PolarBeer's survival servers wouldn't have naturally reset at all in the past 3 weeks.  Y'know, hypothetically.

 

How about one of these options:

 

Limited Veterans with Phase-Out: there's a limited number of veterans, say 1 to 3, and the title passes from the oldest still-living veteran to the most recent player to survive long enough to qualify.  If a still-living veteran signs out and there's a phased-out veteran signed in they get veteran status back. (so candidates are stored in a stack?)  This guarantees there aren't two dozen veterans who are unlikely to all be dead simultaneously, but has a quirk where if three players survive long enough to become veterans, die, and then log out without resurrecting, no new veterans will be assigned and the server will reset as soon as everyone else logs out.  Could be fixed with a timed phase-out for dead veterans, maybe after an hour or so?

 

- or -

 

At Least One: the server only resets if all signed-in players including at least one veteran die.  Probably simpler to implement since it doesn't have rotating veteran membership to manage, but it's vulnerable to veterans logging out when they die to prevent reset.

 

Both guarantee the server won't reset just because some random signed in while everyone else was away, couldn't find flint, couldn't find the base, couldn't find warm clothes and got killed by a batilisk.  However both will reset if some random joins while everyone else is away, goes into the caves for flint and warmth, uses caves and wormholes to quickly traverse land and find the base, draws deerclops out to the dragonfly to kill it, survives to Spring, prepares ice-flings to protect the base, gains veteran status after 20 days, hunts the moslings and on the way back to camp with down feathers gets killed by a batilisk.

 

Personally, I've just learned to accept there'll be a new world with a new camp every day.  Lots of opportunity to experiment with base location and design.  If I decide I want a long-term persistent world I'll host a private server, either LAN or password-protected.

[Freyr]

Personally, I don't like this system. I enjoy starting fresh on day 1 and personally restart a server given the oppertunity. They're public and available to everyone to do as they please. There's the option of modding that would allow this idea to flourish to those who want it though, so there's that. I know if this idea was implemented, I'd probably stop playing the game all together.

[UberBonisseur]

Both guarantee the server won't reset just because some random signed in while everyone else was away, couldn't find flint, couldn't find the base, couldn't find warm clothes and got killed by a batilisk. However both will reset if some random joins while everyone else is away, goes into the caves for flint and warmth, uses caves and wormholes to quickly traverse land and find the base, draws deerclops out to the dragonfly to kill it, survives to Spring, prepares ice-flings to protect the base, gains veteran status after 20 days, hunts the moslings and on the way back to camp with down feathers gets killed by a batilisk.

 

I guess this is fine, too.

 

My point is pretty much that Public servers shouldn't reset whenever the first inexperienced random joins during the night and dies while figuring out how to craft a torch.

 

 

When people point out that this system would remove all the difficulty past a full cycle, I want to say that difficulty is another topic entirely. I would rather have servers that go 100+ days but are more difficult to survive thanks to "adaptative" difficulty, instead of the current Autumn/Winter/Reset cycle