New Augment Mission

[Exophthalmos]

I just completed my first new augment mission and I am not impressed. I can see my experience being a bug and will withhold my usual fiery condemnation until I know for sure.

 

Do not read below if you want to experience it for yourself the first time.....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So this is what I experienced. 

 

Two augmentation stations. That you can't use if your inventory is full btw. Once you click on them you immediately (without prompt) get a RANDOM augment and are knocked out for 3 turns. It appears that you can skirt the knockout with a medgel if you are in the mood to waste 500 credits.

 

Is it a bug that i had no prompt on what the augment was and whether I wanted it or not?

 

If this is intended than I hate it and consider it the worst mission in the game. Sorry for not sugarcoating it but here is why.....

 

1. The majority of augments are bad. They are only worth using in very specific situations and only very specific ones. In the above scenario I didn't even get to see what augment I was getting. For research purposes I put off escaping and used both of the augment stations.....one was completely worthless, one is situationally good at best. As if that wasn't bad enough, that is 2 inventory spots I cannot ever get back. I would rather have a 2nd neural disruptor in that inventory slot 99% of the time.

 

2. The knockout is too long. Way too long. That is over half an alarm level. Thematically it makes sense. You can't just undergo what is realistically moderate to major surgery and be at 100%. Being unconscious post op makes perfect sense. From a gameplay perspective it makes your augmentation lottery even worse. On the plus side it is nice to see the guards just pin your helpless agent upon discovery instead of shooting him. 

 

If the level was more like a server farm level, where you pick from a large amount of augments, and the knockout timer wasn't so long I would be all for it. Another thing you could consider is instead of knocking the agent out you could have them be dazed for several turns afterwords. Dazed agents have less AP, maybe even half; and cannot melee guards. Just throwing out some ideas. 

 

As always, I love you guys, I love the game, and I only criticize in an attempt to make the game better for all. I hope my feedback helps!

 

Exo

[6ec]

Like an Exo, not so impressed by augment mission. I usually play without augments, but was interesting to try new stuff.

So i lured all guards from the augment room, go inside and use first station with Banks. It gives me "Anatomy analysis (kills ignore guard heart monitors and do not raise the tracker)". Ok, it may be good in some situations, maybe it will be more good for Shalem 11, than Banks. But as Exo said, it's totally random. Ok, there are no guards on the horizon, so Banks sleeping for 3 turns and wake up. Then i went to second augment station and use it too with Banks. What it gives me? A second "Anatomy analysis"! Now Banks can double ignore heart monitors)) Absolutely heartless)

 

So, my thoughts about it:

-I don't like that is absolutely random without permission. Just click, boom, you have something. Maybe it is better to ask like "do you want install Anatomy analysis?" So i can decide, is i want to install it, or maybe not, or maybe to another agent. I think smart secret agents always read manual to strange machines, don't they?

 

-I like that augmentation is free. However, usually i play without augment at all. So even aug. station ask me do i want to install some augments, or even if it gives me a catalog with all the augments, i will think twice, because as Exo said before, augments is very specific. Even for free. But maybe some operators will be happy, it's always nice to take something from corporation)

 

-I don't like that both aug. stations can install same augment. It may have a reason, if we could uninstall augments on the base (but we don't), or if we know what augment is in this station (but we don't).

 

-I can't say anything about 3 turn knockout. In my case guards were far from augment room, so i used both stations without problems. But maybe next time it will be more difficult. Maybe if agents can drag other agent like stunned guards?

 

Anyway, the game is still great, just this type of mission is not so interesting for me.

Best regards)

[Qfasa]

I agree. Even if these stations would have names on them and I can see what augment I will get before I use them, it's still too much of a roulette just to go on such mission. Most of the time these missions will be way too risky and not very profitable. Especially if they are extremely guarded.

 

Just a random thought – maybe these missions shouldn't give an instantaneous effect. Instead of it agents could steal some sort of recipes for augments (or parts for them, it doesn't really matter what exactly it will be). Then you can use them between missions if you want, or you can sell them if you don't like what you stole.

 

Basically it means a shop for augments which is empty at the beginning of the game but with time you can fill it up with augments from these missions. And with a possibility to sell unwanted pieces there will be a reason to visit these missions even if you don't use augments for your agents.

I agree. Even if these stations would have names on them and I can see what augment I will get before I use them, it's still too much of a roulette just to go on such mission. Most of the time these missions will be way too risky and not very profitable. Especially if they are extremely guarded.

 

Just a random thought – maybe these missions shouldn't give an instantaneous effect. Instead of it agents could steal some sort of recipes for augments (or parts for them, it doesn't really matter what exactly it will be). Then you can use them between missions if you want, or you can sell them if you don't like what you stole.

 

Basically it means a shop for augments which is empty at the beginning of the game but with time you can fill it up with augments from these missions. And with a possibility to sell unwanted pieces there will be a reason to visit these missions even if you don't use augments for your agents.

[ViewThePhenom]

Only thing that needs to be modified is the ability to get the same augment twice, imo. Otherwise, getting free augments is a pretty sweet deal, random or not.

[Yarrr]

They would be a lot better if they didn't take up an inventory slot imo. I mean, they're implants. They're inside your body. So unless they're extremely disfiguring they should not affect your ability to carry in a negative way.

A system like the original Deus Ex with body slots, and only being able to fit certain augments in certain slots, and then locking out any similar augments would be good I think.

But yes the augment missions should give you at least a choice of augment.

[Exophthalmos]

Only thing that needs to be modified is the ability to get the same augment twice, imo. Otherwise, getting free augments is a pretty sweet deal, random or not.

 

But......but...... it's not a sweet deal.....

 

If offered augments for free I would say no to almost all of them. I'd much rather have the inventory slot and whatever item I end up putting in it. Part of the reason this mission is bad is because most augments are bad.

 

I do love predictive brawling when i have 3+ melee weapons though. Lots of fun.

[Wizard1200]

I think that the Cynernetic Lab is a great idea, but it should work like a Server Farm as Exophthalmos suggested:

 

- Augments are ONLY available in the Cybernetic Lab and they should be more powerful (see below).

- The player selects an augment and pays the credits.

- The agent is knocked out for 1 turn.

 

The augments that increase the action points by 3 for 1 turn after an event should increase the action points by 3 for 2 turns to make them more useful.

[Shirsh]

I'd prefer just have choice to decline not needed augment
still get em for free and have choice to remove some augment (just one usage per station, doesn't matter, install or uninstall)
Also as I can see laboratory can have vault door and additional stations behind it, so now everyone can choose additional augments instead of robbing vault core, that can provide more "spy" immersion than directly buy augments for vault money

 

Or, what if augmentatons would be consumed at laboratory nano-fab as ever, but can be implemented by agent only after using them on station?

[ildarz]

Random augments have any use only if it doesn't take regular inventory slot. I also usually play without augments because most of them is just worse than regular gear (with notable exception of old penetration scanner which had been nerfed two patches ago ). If I have team with 3 or 4 agents then I may consider to augment some of them, but definitely not with random things, free or not.

 

But... if devs will add special slot (or slots) which only can be used for augments, it will be really good. It can be even more interesting with random - adds more uniqueness to every playthrough.

[Yarrr]

Keeping the stations as is might work if augments get a rework to become massively better. Like say recombining the penetration and piercing scanner again, retuning them to become more universally useful to agents. Augments should then be station only, just like Server Farms are now the only source of programs.

Keep the randomness, at least gear can be juggled around a bit to compensate.

[Sirouhei]

I think what we need is more augments in order to make those missions more interesting. The pool right now is rather limited, but I'm sure Klei is planning to add more in the future.

 

As for the randomness, I dislike it a lot. There's too many chances of giving a useless augment to an agent. I had Shalem get a piercing scanner one time, you can see why I didn't care much for it.

[Sando]

Don't really understand the hate on these missions - FREE augments?  There's some really good ones out there and that can help massively (ICE movement booster, melee AP, PWR generation).  The knock out thingy seems about fair too, although a tweak to make it a lower KO count and a few rounds of whoozy lower AP could work too.

 

I would agree that you should get to see what the augments are before you install them though - it would be much more useful to know if you wanted them or not, or which agent to put them on.  RTFM doesn't seem too extreme .  How about each installer machine has a hackable box next to it that tells you what augment it will install, or even lets you pick from a SMALL (2-3 items) list?  Bit more risk/reward - take pot luck with the machine, or get more info/choice by doing more hacking?

 

No need to find out what will be available before you go on the mission - that's just random like all the others.

[Tikotitok]

Actually, augments are really powerful, if you pick them carefully. Holocircuit overloaders, anatomy analysis and that things that gives 2 AP every time somethings is hacked are my favourites. But as it stands now,  the "Augmeland" (nicknames for the win!) is horrible. You can't put randomness into irreversable purchases that need to be nitpicked. I'm fine with different stations having the same augment as long as you can't randomly get them on the same character, though. You never know when you need two anatomy analysts on your two agents with firearms.

 

I disagree with having all the augments in a single mission. Like mentioned already, augments are situational. When I see just the type of augment that I need in a shop, I get it, if possible. Having to go to a specific place to get any augments would feel akward for such on-the-run utilities. Augments are not what you acticely strive for, you pick them up as you go. And what if I don't find any useful augments in Augmeland? I would have wasted a good mission, and that lost mission was about second-priority objects! (Basic items come first.) Sounds annoying to me.

Maybe if the current mission wasn't so unreliable, I could use it when the RNG God is not with me with my nanofabs. I believe Augmentland is best as a compensator, not as a monopoly.

[ViewThePhenom]

But......but...... it's not a sweet deal.....

 

If offered augments for free I would say no to almost all of them. I'd much rather have the inventory slot and whatever item I end up putting in it. Part of the reason this mission is bad is because most augments are bad.

 

I do love predictive brawling when i have 3+ melee weapons though. Lots of fun.

 

The great thing about opinions is that there are many. I actually like using augments and the chance to score free ones for the cost of an inventory slot at most. I'll be making full use of these missions.

[SwagPenguin]

I may draw some hate for this post but my feedback is that having the augments be random is AWESOME, depending on what augment your character gets you have to adapt your strategy. When my Dr. Xu got the armor pen augment but didn't have a weapon I gave him Bank's neural disruptor and traded Bank's paralyzer to Shalem so he could get a full stun on people. Banks augment was the one that knocked people out when she went invisible so I moved the invisible cloak off of Dr. Xu and to Banks. 

Even though it is random, it is a free augment and the fact that it is random adds a layer of depth to the game where you may have to rethink how to best use each character. 

However, I do agree that there should be a prompt before you knock yourself out for 3 turns, that caught me off guard really badly the first time it happened.

 

For balance I think Augments should cost an inventory slot, but logically it doesn't really make sense. Why would having a cybernetic augmentation on the inside of your body limit your inventory space?

 

Also I don't think Augments should be exclusive to the augment mission, the augment mission is just the best way to get them because they are free. 

[uncop]

Random free augments are cool, the fact that you permanently lose inventory slots for a lottery that isn't in your favor isn't. Not to mention that inventory slots aren't free and augs aren't sellable like unneeded Security Dispatch tech. The solutions I see are:

-Keep it as is (I actually might not use them, because by endgame you really do need your inventory slots)

-Make the machines also capable of removing augs, maybe for a small fee (I'd like to see this regardless, because why not, options)

-Just make it a shop like the other big shops (boring)

-Make the machines tell you what they're going to install in advance (also kind of boring, but hey, freebies)

-Something esoteric, like make it give you one of three choices which you can pay for or get one of them at random without paying. Find a gamey system that's unpredictable, but reliable enough to make the unpredictability fun.

[Qfasa]

I may draw some hate for this post but my feedback is that having the augments be random is AWESOME, depending on what augment your character gets you have to adapt your strategy.

No hate from me it just our opinions I love some augments too but I did this mission once and I never ever will do them again if they won't be changed. I prefer to pay and get what I want rather than take a risk of getting random effect for free, especially in the late game. If 'pay and get what you what' isn't an option then I prefer not to use augments at all, no big deal.

[Yarrr]

augs aren't sellable like unneeded Security Dispatch tech.

Since when? I seem to remember selling them at a Nanofab. Granted that was probably back in beta build 1 so that might have changed.

[Sobx]

Agreed with the thread creator, completed one augment mission, won't even bother starting another of this type at the current form. Getting random augment without "continue/cancel" prompt message is a waste of both inventory space and time for me.

[the truthseeker]

On augment missions, it would be more realistic if you can't use the augments until subsequent missions, making the exit back to base and surgery. Also, until then, it should be in inventory, but not once the augment is installed. A replacement augment if found on mission should work the same way requiring an exfiltration and an inventory slot until done so. 

[GlobalWarming]

I like the idea of buffing the augments, finding augment "plans" which can be sold or bought like normal equipment, and running the Augment Mission to add or swap the augments (which KO the agent for 3 turns). Hard mode could start the agent with their character unique augment as a plan and not installed (requiring at least 1 early augment mission run). ALSO, I would like it if augments were limited (2/character maybe?) and separate from the inventory.

[stefanstr]

I like the idea of augments but I think you should be able to tell what augments are there. Getting the wrong augment on the wrong agent means permanently smaller inventory. Not worth it, given that you can buy the augments anyway.

 

TBH, after I discovered that the augments are random, I started to ignore those missions completely... only to discover they are generated way to often. My last run, at one point I had one Executive Terminals mission and three augment missions.

 

Klei, please rebalance this mission. It is a fine admission but need some more work, I think.

[Sphingx]

The random augment thing really isn't a good thing. Moreover, some warning on what it is and what the 3 turn knockout would be nice! But yeah, as a rule, 'Random' and 'Strategy' really don't go together. One thing I noticed is that most people who play strategy games generally don't mind ridiculous levels of difficulty if there is logic to it, but they do take exception to having to rely on RNG to overcome the aforementioned difficulties.  

 

Why are there so many cybernetics labs missions? I'm always desperately hoping to see a Detention Center Mission, but all I get on the mission screen are 3-4 Cybernetics Labs and one other non-lab mission Some balance would be nice. 

[Rogue Scientist]

Going to throw my two cents in here - augment missions definitely need some work.  The two main points:

 

1) It's thematically weird that most augments I can just buy from a machine or pluck out of a safe and immediately use.  I can install them myself for free, or go to the nanolab and get knocked out for 3 turns?

 

2) The current augmentations are each only useful for a certain 'build', and not knowing what I'm about to get makes them near useless - especially when contrasted with looting a vault or a piece of valuable tech!

 

 

I do like the thought above about making augmentations more powerful, but normally not installing until after the missions are over.

 

Another fairly easy change would be to give the augmentation machines better augmentations then can normally be purchased.

 

However here is my favorite idea:  You pick up augment chips normally (finding them or buying them), but you can't use it until it has been installed, and the only way to install them is by visiting a cybernetics lab.  Each lab might have a safe with 1 random implant (so it's not a waste even if you come without any chips), and then 1-3 installation machines.  You go to a machine with a chip, it knocks you out, and when you wake up the implant is installed and ready to go.  This would add more continuity between missions (just like picking up the codes from the CFO to get into the back vault), and make augmentations feel more special then other inventory items  If they took that much work they could either be made more powerful, or made to not take up inventory spaces (maybe each agent has a limit of 3 augment slots)

 

 

I could even see two different versions of augment installers just like there are basic nano-fab machines in some missions: your first augment comes free with the character,  the second can be installed on a 'basic' machine in any mission (like the basic nano-fab machines), then the cybernetic lab mission installers that let you add the 3rd augment.

[DrMeat]

I never find any argument any useful at all...This is the one thing I've never use during any previous patches. I can always find something works better than the argument. So instead of using one or more of my inventory slots, I always choose to use other equipments which is more flexable and much more cost effective.

 

So...I don't even like any argument...Random installed and unremovable argument...It's a hell for me...I just wish I dont have too many this new regument level on my world map.