Summer overheating hazard is too similar to winter

[c0refile]

It would be much better if the summer overheating hazard was appreciably different than winter's.  Right now, it feels uninspired and a bit lazy to me and it sticks out like a sore thumb when the rest of the DLC feels fresh and well done.  You do the same things in summer that you do in winter, carry thermal stones, wear special clothing, build fires (I think I literally groaned out loud once I realized what the endorthermic fire was for).

 

I had suggested dehydration instead on the beta forum, but a few posters said that had already been shot down.  Though, maybe combining the ideas, how about requiring the player to drink water in order to cool down in addition to/instead of special clothing?  Ideas:

 

1) Canteen.  Portable water storage.

2) Puddles.  Form after rainstorms as well as in summer under mini glaciers.  Rain puddles dissipate after a few days.  Can be used to fill canteen.

3) Water filter.  Allows filling a canteen from a pond.  (crafted from charcoal and reeds obviously

4) Rain barrel.  Collects water/ice during rainstorms/snowstorms. Water can be transferred to/from canteen in either direction.

5) Water can be used to put out smoldering fires.

6) Water should be used to rejuvenate withered plants instead of manure.

7) Eliminate endothermic fire and make all articles of body clothing heat up the player.

8) Hats and umbrellas still make sense to help keep the player cool.

 

Maybe there's other ideas to make summer different than winter, and that'd be fine too.  Not wedded to the water idea, just trying to suggest something different enough to add a new mechanic to the game rather than having practically the same one with just different stuff to craft.

 

 

[brummbar7]

It's great that you have some well thought out and presented ideas, it's the heart of a vibrant community.  But at this point, it's also good to be realistic: you're basically suggesting an 11th hour overhaul with dehydration. 

[saltychipmunk]

Good ideas , but I think there are a more realistic  avenues

 

such as removing  over heating

and removing combustion

 

the reason I say this is because having every season as an OMFG  this is hard and silly is bad for variety. and as this thread has aptly pointed out  summer is basically a harder , significantly less realistic  version of winter . I mean  every summer item is basically a winter item  that does the exact same thing for heat .

 

an endo fire......

an ice cube .....

 

the snow ball throwing thing is novel i guess.

 

OR they can just tone them down so that summer is like winter light  ( which it should be .. you dont see people preparing for summer like it is the end of the world like you do winter)

 

On the thought of combustion , if summers were really this flame-tastic , one wonders  exactly why the entire world isn't one giant conflagration  when  wilson spawns in it. I doubt the world is 1 second old when wilson  shows up , yet  with the amount of damage the  fires can do in just one season ... there is just no possible way there would be ANYthing left by the time ole wilson shows up.

[UnderwearApp]

I disagree, while they are similar, in summer, you literally never have to stop if you have the right gear, whereas in winter, eventually, you will need to stop to warm up.

 

The fact that you need gear to survive them is hardly a reason to complain, as I could just say "spring is the same as winter, I have to carry around an umbrella and wear a coat or hat to not freeze".

 

The spontaneous combustion also differentiates summer from winter. In winter you aren't looking for things to suddenly freeze over so you can melt them. It adds another element you have to pay attention to for the season.

 

And I have posted multiple reasons why the world is not burned down when you arrive, but I think I will stick with "Maxwell created this world just for you when you arrived".

[Skorp]

And I have posted multiple reasons why the world is not burned down when you arrive, but I think I will stick with "Maxwell created this world just for you when you arrived".

And the skeletons?

[UnderwearApp]

And the skeletons?

If he can create and shape the world, I don't see why a few skeletons is not feasible.

 

OR if you prefer lore; "he saves the bones of his victims to put on display for the next" and dots the map with them as people do with trinkets around their home.

[Conspiracy313]

I think that the designers should add an item (the canteen) that you carry which has multiple uses to cool you down, sort of like how ice does, would help greatly with differentiating summer from winter. Maybe instead of a giant ice cube on your head, you could carry a canteen around which has been "repaired' with ice. You drink/eat it and it cools you down a lot. Maybe not as effective as pure ice to cool you down, but it won't melt/rot over time, so you can just carry it around. Makes a lot more sense than the sort of ridiculous methods of cooling down now. Don't get me wrong I think they're interesting and add to the culture of the world, but some basic thing like drinking water to cool down getting skipped over seems a little odd. You could also refill it to maximum at a pond.

 

So to repeat, i think this item, the canteen should be added:

 

-Item that starts out at 0% durability but doesn't break (or has a completely rotten status without turning to rot)

-Improve it's durability/level of spoil with ice, likely 1 ice = 12.5%

-completely restores durability at ponds. Gives you a reason to ever camp very near a pond.

- 1 use constitutes 25-50% so it's not too overpowered.

[c0refile]

It's great that you have some well thought out and presented ideas, it's the heart of a vibrant community.  But at this point, it's also good to be realistic: you're basically suggesting an 11th hour overhaul with dehydration. 

Never too late to try

 

And it doesn't have to be an overhaul, I think if they just tweak it a bit to use a different mechanism to keep cool than the same stuff you use in wintertime it would make a big difference.  I suggested the canteen as a new alternative mechanic that's different from what you do in either spring or winter.

[c0refile]

I disagree, while they are similar, in summer, you literally never have to stop if you have the right gear, whereas in winter, eventually, you will need to stop to warm up.

 

The fact that you need gear to survive them is hardly a reason to complain, as I could just say "spring is the same as winter, I have to carry around an umbrella and wear a coat or hat to not freeze".

 

The spontaneous combustion also differentiates summer from winter. In winter you aren't looking for things to suddenly freeze over so you can melt them. It adds another element you have to pay attention to for the season.

 

And I have posted multiple reasons why the world is not burned down when you arrive, but I think I will stick with "Maxwell created this world just for you when you arrived".

 

It is different that you never have to stop in summer, but that's a small difference, the fact is you still have to get over the hazard by doing the same things as you do in winter, and that's boring.

 

Spring feels different to me because the wetness mechanic has other effects, lowering your sanity and such.  It's a bit more 'soft' than winter's overheating idea.  And there are other ways to get around it, like standing under a tree.  To me it feels much different than winter, even if eventually you can freeze and take damage.  Thinking about it now, I guess that does make it similar to winter, but I hadn't even noticed that similarily until now, whereas the summer overheating thing just feels like 'we copied the winter hazard, renamed all the items you need to survive it, and here's your new summer hazard!' to me.

 

Spotaneous combustion does differentiate from winter, and I like it, but still the core hazard (overheating) is a carbon copy practically.  Though I think it happens too frequently in any moderately built up base, which is frustrating and unfun.

[brummbar7]

Spotaneous combustion does differentiate from winter, and I like it, but still the core hazard (overheating) is a carbon copy practically.  Though I think it happens too frequently in any moderately built up base, which is frustrating and unfun.

Out of curiosity, have you altered your base building strategies at all from vanilla?  What steps are you taking to combat spontaneous combustion?  I don't seem to have near the amount of combustion a lot of people have and sometimes I wonder if my strategy is that good, or I'm just lucky or what?

[StrangledPig]

I think that the "pond resets heat-/ thirst-/ whatever-meter" is a good idea, but you should loose sanity, I mean, I wouldn't want to stand in/ drink that water

[saltychipmunk]

i am fine with  the over heat mechanic , if they balanced it so that not having a cube of ice on your head  was survivable  if you used means like endo fires and  ate ice cubes . right now  you over heat really fast and  the only  real way to keep the heat away and be productive is to have the cube of ice on your head .

 

But we can chock that up to  game balance .  So no big deal there.

 

My major concern with summer on its combustion is two er three fold.

 

1 there is no  natural cycle to  fight it .  in the real world a forest burns  but the  large trees survive and  the burned undergrowth fertilizes the ground for new plants  to grow .  after a while new plants do grow.  however  in dont starve  fire is purely destructive  and can rapidly deplete a world of its resources.  Which is an immersion killer  as anyone can point out the obvious conundrum of how the ecosystem has somehow been doing fine  and then suddenly burns to a crisp in a few years when wilson shows up. 

 

It was fine when  fire was limited to player stupidity or the rare  lightning strike. but now  klei is balancing on the edge of conflagration. 

 

2 the method to combat fire .. is a little to micro manage centered.  It seems rather strange that we would need to burn so much wood in summer of all seasons , yet that is exactly what we must do to power the legion of iceflingomatics needed to  save the ecosystem.  

 

I would love  to be able to carry a bucket of dirt or something 

 

 

3 flammable  housing ,  pig houses .. merm houses  and fortifications  should be flame proof  , I am fine with everything else being flammable 

[UnderwearApp]

i am fine with  the over heat mechanic , if they balanced it so that not having a cube of ice on your head  was survivable  if you used means like endo fires and  ate ice cubes . right now  you over heat really fast and  the only  real way to keep the heat away and be productive is to have the cube of ice on your head .

 

But we can chock that up to  game balance .  So no big deal there.

 

My major concern with summer on its combustion is two er three fold.

 

1 there is no  natural cycle to  fight it .  in the real world a forest burns  but the  large trees survive and  the burned undergrowth fertilizes the ground for new plants  to grow .  after a while new plants do grow.  however  in dont starve  fire is purely destructive  and can rapidly deplete a world of its resources.  Which is an immersion killer  as anyone can point out the obvious conundrum of how the ecosystem has somehow been doing fine  and then suddenly burns to a crisp in a few years when wilson shows up. 

 

It was fine when  fire was limited to player stupidity or the rare  lightning strike. but now  klei is balancing on the edge of conflagration. 

 

2 the method to combat fire .. is a little to micro manage centered.  It seems rather strange that we would need to burn so much wood in summer of all seasons , yet that is exactly what we must do to power the legion of iceflingomatics needed to  save the ecosystem.  

 

I would love  to be able to carry a bucket of dirt or something 

 

 

3 flammable  housing ,  pig houses .. merm houses  and fortifications  should be flame proof  , I am fine with everything else being flammable 

1 - How do we know how long this world has been around before we got there, it could all be "brand new"

 

2 - You can already extinguish smoldering with rot and manure, and fires with ice staff and ice. Do we really need to carry around a bucket of dirt as well?

 

3 - Why should these obviously wooden structures be immune to fire damage? Judging by your logic arguments about weather in caves, I cannot believe this is being suggested by you.

[saltychipmunk]

1, because it has an ecosystem?   usually means things been rolling for a while , it most certainly  *feels* like things have been rolling for a while and will continue to roll  after Wilson is gone* 

 

i mean I guess we can take the load screen literally . but that isn't much fun. 

 

2 those are all nice I suppose . But I am looking more of a tool option, something you would actually carry around with you rather than something you happen to be holding.  the fire and ice staffs are pretty expensive high tier items  to be sure   and  manure / rot is neat in a pinch but   you wont be carrying rot with you most of the time ,  same with manure .

 

it would be nice if there was something a little more mainstream  , that is all.... like say the shovel  since you already dig with it  , it has limited uses  and  you can be expected to carry it around with you.    It is not a huge deal though.

 

3

 well technically those structures are made of wood boards and  stone. not just pure wood.  How about this , since pigs and merms live in the structures why dont they try to put out the fires (reliably)?  i think that is a more believable compromise wouldn't you agree? 

 

the reason why I say walls should be fire proof , is because walls are kind of weak as is , being flame retardant  (atleast for the wood and stone ones  .. grass i can life with being combustable) gives them some love. 

[UnderwearApp]

1, because it has an ecosystem?   usually means things been rolling for a while , it most certainly  *feels* like things have been rolling for a while and will continue to roll  after Wilson is gone* 

 

i mean I guess we can take the load screen literally . but that isn't much fun. 

 

2 those are all nice I suppose . But I am looking more of a tool option, something you would actually carry around with you rather than something you happen to be holding.  the fire and ice staffs are pretty expensive high tier items  to be sure   and  manure / rot is neat in a pinch but   you wont be carrying rot with you most of the time ,  same with manure .

 

it would be nice if there was something a little more mainstream  , that is all.... like say the shovel  since you already dig with it  , it has limited uses  and  you can be expected to carry it around with you.    It is not a huge deal though.

 

3

 well technically those structures are made of wood boards and  stone. not just pure wood.  How about this , since pigs and merms live in the structures why dont they try to put out the fires (reliably)?  i think that is a more believable compromise wouldn't you agree? 

 

the reason why I say walls should be fire proof , is because walls are kind of weak as is , being flame retardant  (atleast for the wood and stone ones  .. grass i can life with being combustable) gives them some love. 

1 - That is just the way I saw it, even before DLC.

 

2 - I usually carried rot before DLC, and now always do specifically for the extinguishing aspect. Manure, not so much. If I have to choose between a "tool" made for extinguishing fires, and rot which has several uses, I would stick with the rot. Different play styles I guess.

 

3 - Maybe they could put out fires, if and only if they have extinguishing items near them (ie. rot, manure, bucket of dirt), but I doubt that is what Klei has time to focus on.

 

Walls are kind of weak, but I have to say I have never seen a stone wall catch fire, I have seen fire bypass/jump a stone wall, which is understandable to me.

[saltychipmunk]

fair enough, 

[c0refile]

Out of curiosity, have you altered your base building strategies at all from vanilla?  What steps are you taking to combat spontaneous combustion?  I don't seem to have near the amount of combustion a lot of people have and sometimes I wonder if my strategy is that good, or I'm just lucky or what?

 

I have.  For instance, rather than building a field of berry bushes and/or saplings, I plant little clumps of them in 3-4s.  Yet, during my second summer, which isn't over yet, I've had 3 or 4 different clumps in my base burn down.  I caught one of the drying racks in time (which I spread out much more than usual now), but the other 3 times, it was off-screen and I only knew about it when I saw the light from the fires.

[Strangerdanger101]

I have.  For instance, rather than building a field of berry bushes and/or saplings, I plant little clumps of them in 3-4s.  Yet, during my second summer, which isn't over yet, I've had 3 or 4 different clumps in my base burn down.  I caught one of the drying racks in time (which I spread out much more than usual now), but the other 3 times, it was off-screen and I only knew about it when I saw the light from the fires.

I usually only see one wildfire in a entire day. But yes, the building a field of berry bushes and stuff like that has become a very bad idea in summer. Unless you're really quick. (I'll probably regret building my entire base currently in fall/autumn next to each other. Well, the drying racks for winter are pretty spread out though.) Rot has even more uses now, which is why i dont mind setting catcoons to "lots" (Meat and morsels everywhere on the ground if you do that, which means much more potential for rot)

[saltychipmunk]

this is kind of why i dislike fire ,  because  now  your base is spread over half a continent to prevent fire hazards.

 

one would think having forests or bush spontaneously conbusting  would be enough  of a threat from summer 

 

especially now that klei has diluted  the sustainable tree pool.  ( many trees drop no seeds, one drops only one at full maturity and only one drops 2).  so fire can easily deplete tree resources

 

and need i mention berry bushes , grass and  twig saplings? 

 

 

As a method of deterring the clumping and mass farming of  tightly bunched  objects such as  trees, grass,saplings and berry bushes: cool . i am all for it

 

leave our bases alone  gosh darn it.  I dont want to walk for a solid minute to check all of my meat racks because the fire system  turned my base into a checker board. 

[c0refile]

I usually only see one wildfire in a entire day. But yes, the building a field of berry bushes and stuff like that has become a very bad idea in summer. Unless you're really quick. (I'll probably regret building my entire base currently in fall/autumn next to each other. Well, the drying racks for winter are pretty spread out though.) Rot has even more uses now, which is why i dont mind setting catcoons to "lots" (Meat and morsels everywhere on the ground if you do that, which means much more potential for rot)

 

I just played a few more days in summer days 95 to 101, and I'd say I saw about 7 fires in my base and a few out in the wilderness.  I discovered you can put out smoldering berry bushes with manure, which is nice.  But I lost a few things, nevertheless.  I do like the smoldering thing -- I just think it happens too frequently, and it sucks when it's offscreen and you can't see it.

[MrMushroomy]

Good ideas , but I think there are a more realistic  avenues

 

such as removing  over heating

and removing combustion

 

the reason I say this is because having every season as an OMFG  this is hard and silly is bad for variety. and as this thread has aptly pointed out  summer is basically a harder , significantly less realistic  version of winter . I mean  every summer item is basically a winter item  that does the exact same thing for heat .

 

an endo fire......

an ice cube .....

 

the snow ball throwing thing is novel i guess.

 

OR they can just tone them down so that summer is like winter light  ( which it should be .. you dont see people preparing for summer like it is the end of the world like you do winter)

 

On the thought of combustion , if summers were really this flame-tastic , one wonders  exactly why the entire world isn't one giant conflagration  when  wilson spawns in it. I doubt the world is 1 second old when wilson  shows up , yet  with the amount of damage the  fires can do in just one season ... there is just no possible way there would be ANYthing left by the time ole wilson shows up.

What would summer be then? A way to have 3 peaceful seasons in a row to prepare for winter, if you start with spring? Over heating and combustion make it a challenge, removing them is like if you didn't freeze to death in winter.

[saltychipmunk]

I suppose so , after a while i have decided to change my stance on this a smidgen.    Summer is fine , it just needs tweaking with some of the mechanics so that they are less tedious. 

 

such as over heating not being so pervasive  or make the methods  for countering it more effective  (an ice cube literally lasts a few seconds before another is needed, that way they can also reduce the amount of new ice made each year as well ( there is a **** TON of it)

 

and it would be nice if  the list of objects that can start as combustion sources was a little reigned back