Is the Shadow Maul really that powerful?

[Jenny 05 Justic]

You unlock it at the very end of the game, and then you still have to defeat nine more bosses to upgrade it. Its only advantage is dealing 4 more damage than the Shadow Reaper and having a jellybean-like auto-heal effect. Among all late-game tools, it has the lowest durability — the Brightshade Smasher and Brightshade Shoevel both have incredibly high tool durability, while the Shadow Maul has only half the durability of a Luxury Axe from the early game. It also has a hidden hunger meter you can't even see, so you can never tell when it needs replenishing before it starves and loses all its upgrades. Why not just merge its durability and hunger mechanics, and show the hunger directly as a percentage on the item?

[Well-met]

It had a purpose when it had a really high leech value

but the community made sure to get klei to nerf it within days of course.

[Baark0]

The leech effect is doing most of the heavy lifting. It's half the healing of a bat bat but it has much higher durability, and its more convenient to carry around since you can just repair it. Despite that, imo it could do with several changes/buffs.

First and most importantly, the Maul should retain its boss kills when it breaks, as long as it doesn't break due to starvation or while it has 0 hunger remaining. This is easily my biggest gripe with the weapon, as it's really really easy to forget about it during the heat of the moment in a boss fight, and attacking just 1 extra time will undo up to several seasons worth of work. A weapon that requires as much work as the Maul to obtain shouldn't be this inconvenient to use imo.

I also think it could honestly maybe do with a damage buff at level 3, as it gets out classed by the brightshade sword after killing scion and putting the jewels in the enlightened crown. The only exception to this is WX since the attack speed buff from spin-cycles with gamma tinkering 2 easily makes up for the lower weapon damage, plus it has AoE properties. A durability increase would also be nice to see, or at least have it drain less durability when using it as an axe, though I find it harder to justify a durability increase if the Maul starts retaining its levels when breaking due to over usage. The Maul having higher chopping efficiency is probably part of why it's durability is so low, as it cuts almost as good as glass axes, and those are known for breaking really quickly.

[Maxil20]

18 minutes ago, Baark0 said:

I also think it could honestly maybe do with a damage buff at level 3, as it gets out classed by the brightshade sword after killing scion and putting the jewels in the enlightened crown.

I wouldn't mind if it got buffed, but at least to its credit the empowered crown + maul combo still holds pretty good merits if only for the lifesteal and the damage falloff isn't as concerning given the compensation of the gestalts, alongside the extra benefit of effectively removing the sanity downside from the maul's leeching. I would say it still holds pretty good value in that regard. The rest of the issues are fair, though.

[Captain_Rage]

1 hour ago, Baark0 said:

The leech effect is doing most of the heavy lifting. It's half the healing of a bat bat but it has much higher durability, and its more convenient to carry around since you can just repair it. Despite that, imo it could do with several changes/buffs.

First and most importantly, the Maul should retain its boss kills when it breaks, as long as it doesn't break due to starvation or while it has 0 hunger remaining. This is easily my biggest gripe with the weapon, as it's really really easy to forget about it during the heat of the moment in a boss fight, and attacking just 1 extra time will undo up to several seasons worth of work. A weapon that requires as much work as the Maul to obtain shouldn't be this inconvenient to use imo.

Even giving it a grace period of a few seconds to repair it before it loses its buff when breaking would be something. The trade-off of losing the buff upon breaking is fair to begin with but coupled with the low durability it kind of defeats the purpose of using it in difficult fights where you already have to pay attention to other things. Agreed.

The weapon itself is very potent and powerful.

[Ridley]

15 minutes ago, Captain_Rage said:

Even giving it a grace period of a few seconds to repair it before it loses its buff when breaking would be something. The trade-off of losing the buff upon breaking is fair to begin with but coupled with the low durability it kind of defeats the purpose of using it in difficult fights where you already have to pay attention to other things. Agreed.

The weapon itself is very potent and powerful.

I would like it if the weapon started to shriek at 10% or less durability.

[PandoPon]

I'd say yeah.

I remember not really liking the idea when I first saw it. I thought it'd be tedious to upkeep, but after playing with it for almost 800+ days now, I feel safe to say this is likely my favorite weapon in the game now. I only wish it would notify survivors of being close to breaking. Woe to those who broke their Mauls after Winter season.

[Cruvimaster]

I understand that Brightshade Sword has the best cost-benefit ratio among the three weapons, as the resources needed to maintain it are very easy to obtain in large quantities and won't make a substantial difference in boss fights. Shadow Maul is the worst cost-benefit ratio in my opinion. The damage dealt and life regeneration are excellent, obviously, but the care the weapon requires in combat (it can't reach 0 durability) and outside of it (having to store it in a wrapping) puts it behind the Shadow Reaper overall.

Of course, characters will have a greater affinity with one weapon or another. Shadow Maul is essential for WX. But for Wanda, this weapon is complete garbage, as it destroys Wanda's sanity since the devs forgot that Wanda is always passively losing health, making it unviable to use.

[Captain_Rage]

Your analysis above describes the problem excellent. In easy fights the weapon is overkill and you simply waste durability, considering that resources for repairing it aren't as readily available as its counterparts, and in warranted fights the durability doesn't last for long considering how sturdy most bosses are, simply shifting the aspect of the issue.

Since the Glass Cutter deals the same amount of damage against every opponent with the difference of costing various amount of durability, making it an overall lovely weapon against Shadow Creatures, the Shadow Maul could get the same mechanic with reduced wear against more powerful bosses and mobs. The weapon is already constantly speaks of how it thirsts for killing powerful creatures. If the durability cost was lowered against said enemies the weapon would be in a pretty good spot (it doesn't have to be as crazy of a reduction as the Glass Cutter).

[Jenny 05 Justic]

1 hour ago, Captain_Rage said:

你上面的分析精准描述了问题所在。在简单的战斗中，这把武器属于过度杀伤，只会白白浪费耐久度——毕竟修复它的资源不像同类武器那样容易获取；而在真正需要它的战斗中，考虑到大多数 Boss 的皮糙肉厚程度，耐久度又撑不了太久，这不过是把问题的角度换了个方向而已。

由于玻璃刀对所有敌人造成的伤害相同，仅耐久度消耗不同，使其成为对抗暗影生物的全能武器，暗影之锤也可以采用类似机制——对更强大的首领和怪物减少耐久损耗。这把武器本身就不断诉说着它对猎杀强大生物的渴望。如果针对这类敌人降低耐久消耗，该武器就能处于相当不错的状态（不必像玻璃刀那样夸张的减耗幅度）。

No, the issue isn't about combat at all. During fights I'm constantly keeping an eye on durability. The Shadow Maul's fatal flaw is that a fully upgraded one can starve itself to death in just five days, and aside from whimpering like a bullied child, it gives absolutely no warning — it just dies in your backpack and loses everything. I honestly don't care whether the Shadow Maul is weak in combat or not, but even just as a tool, the tedious maintenance and complete lack of notification are incredibly frustrating.

6 hours ago, Baark0 said:

吸血效果承担了大部分核心作用。它的治疗量只有蝙蝠棒的一半，但耐久度更高，且可修复的特性使其携带更为便利。尽管如此，我个人认为它仍需要一些调整或增强。

首先也是最重要的一点，暗影大锤在耐久耗尽时应当保留其击杀首领的增益效果，除非是因饥饿值归零或饥饿值已耗尽而损坏。这绝对是我对这把武器最大的不满——在激战首领时很容易忘记关注耐久度，多攻击一次就会让几个季节的努力付诸东流。我认为，像暗影大锤这样需要投入大量精力才能获得的武器，不该使用起来如此不便。

我也觉得三级暗影锤确实可以考虑加个伤害加成，毕竟在击杀子嗣并将宝石嵌入启迪王冠后，它就被亮影剑完全比下去了。唯一例外的是 WX 机器人，因为伽马改装 2 配合旋转循环提供的攻速加成，完全能弥补武器基础伤害的不足，更何况它还有范围伤害特性。耐久度提升也是值得期待的改进，至少在使用它作为斧头砍树时能减少耐久消耗——不过如果暗影锤在过度使用碎裂后能保留等级，那耐久度提升的必要性就值得商榷了。暗影锤之所以耐久度这么低，很可能是因为它拥有接近玻璃斧的砍伐效率，而众所周知玻璃斧的损耗速度极快。

Honestly, I'm not really hoping for better combat performance. Sure, the Shadow Maul's strength is underwhelming, but at least it's a tiny bit stronger. The bigger issue with the Shadow Maul has always been how high-maintenance it is — it frantically starves itself to death while sitting idle, and its chopping efficiency sits right at that awkward threshold. Whether at level one or fully maxed out, it takes three swings to chop a Boulderbough tree, whereas the Glass Axe, with just a tiny bit more efficiency, only needs two. I originally thought the Shadow Maul was meant to fill the missing axe slot among late-game tools, but it seems to fall short in every aspect. Right now, all I want is for the Shadow Maul to let me know when it's hungry, so I can take the kid out for a meal.

Edited Tuesday at 02:15 AM by Jenny 05 Justic

[Captain_Rage]

Word. Maybe lessening the durability cost when chopping trees when it is in a well fed state would also make it worthwhile. The whole theme around the weapon revolves around it wanting be well fed. That would incentivize killing monsters before going on a chopping run, or chopping while killing monsters in the same go. Currently the durability cost for using it as an axe sends the whole utility part down the drain.

[Frosty_Mentos]

Maybe a repurpose of the rift and planar defense is that it should be that you make tools and weapons that would break it and let regular weapons work? Kinda like in forge.

They did think of making armor penetration via heat weapons, but there's no armored enemies besides Toad.

Planar defense doesn't feel like armor, it's more of a otherworldly resistance. I think weapons made from forges should allow defense reduction for a good amount of time before they gain it back and needing breaking again? Bomb planar weapons should burst it immediately for a good time.

Heat weapons shouldn't break armor, it should make targets vulnerable to damage instead imo.

[KvltBear]

I would second the proposal to only lose boss levels upon starvation, the vast majority of my level losses are from breaking. It's powerful but not enough to warrant being so unforgiving. Nor would I be opposed to a small damage buff considering, as mentioned, the jeweled crown and brightshade sword combo.

Edited Tuesday at 09:17 PM by KvltBear

[Frashaw27]

I had the idea that after getting the first level, the Maul would shift from durability to a pure starvation system. This would essentially make it an end game hambat and make it stand out due to needing less resource demand for more time demand. Would also help hoist it as an upgrade from the scythe instead of a weird side grade.
I also had the idea that each of the celestial champion and scion phases would fully upgrade the maul up to the tier due to the severe level of lunar energy to awaken the funne axe.