Bosses might need a quality of life plus multiplayer/scaling mechanic?

[Frosty_Mentos]

Either for first time kills before some of them either becoming a farmable boss later on might need some buffs or new abilities to counter players with excessively powerful gear.

In multiplayer people speedrun bosses way too fast as groups, generally fast as solo. I feel like there might be a lack of challenge to make the game more exciting cause after all objectives are done, so does motivation to fight bosses kinda go away.

Or they could surprise players by being a specific variant, while in general combat they would have new tricks they would not infringe the usual farming methods later in game.

[Milordo]

Let's see how much years we need to wait for Klei to add an autobalance mechanic for bosses.

[Cassielu]

I don't like the intention behind the mechanism of automatic balance based on the number of people, as if the bosses only meaning of their existence itself is to be killed by the players.

The threat level mechanism of WARBOT is better.

[Milordo]

29 minutes ago, Cassielu said:

I don't like the intention behind the mechanism of automatic balance based on the number of people, as if the bosses only meaning of their existence itself is to be killed by the players.

Why not? Why we should remain in this pitiful state where the game is extreme to both ends. Bosses should be a big deal, not something that pops as soap bubbles.

It's almost impossible to defend it as it detracted people since 2015 and ruined the enjoyment and fun of the game.

[Edible Coal]

i think scaling would create annoying cases where is mandatory for everyone to fight a boss, which not everyone wants to 

[Milordo]

13 minutes ago, Edible Coal said:

i think scaling would create annoying cases where is mandatory for everyone to fight a boss, which not everyone wants to 

Problem already solved. Based on distance and armor + pure math makes it is advantageous to fight together but not required. So no, this scenario would not happen.

[Edible Coal]

9 minutes ago, Milordo said:

Problem already solved. Based on distance and armor + pure math makes it is advantageous to fight together but not required. So no, this scenario would not happen.

what if someone join mid way? does the boss just gains more health?

[Milordo]

3 minutes ago, Edible Coal said:

what if someone join mid way? does the boss just gains more health?

Nope! That's the neat thing! In fact I wrote before "armor". It's the same great system of Toadstool. The boss has armor, but never gains hp, meaning the fight you did alone or with others is not cancelled! Very neat! Already test it in my own unofficial auto-balance mod and it works wonderfully. Tested with new and old players.

[Y0sH]

Different variants of bosses sounds like a great idea based on time of day, season, weather etc. However I doubt it'll be something implemented "quickly"

[Sacco]

3 hours ago, Milordo said:

Why not? Why we should remain in this pitiful state where the game is extreme to both ends. Bosses should be a big deal, not something that pops as soap bubbles.

It's almost impossible to defend it as it detracted people since 2015 and ruined the enjoyment and fun of the game.

honestly if we need an autobalance feature, it should just add some health to bosses when playing multiplayer, because as of right now all of the bosses are so stupidly easy to beat with all the gears characters got. What i am saying is that if you are playing alone the bosses shouldn't have lower health.

Edited June 8, 2025 by Sacco

[Wawchik]

24 minutes ago, Sacco said:

honestly if we need an autobalance feature, it should just add some health to bosses when playing multiplayer, because as of right now all of the bosses are so stupidly easy to beat with all the gears characters got. What i am saying is that if you are playing alone the bosses shouldn't have lower health.

Probably the biggest reason players want boss scaling is that they're hard to fight solo

[Frosty_Mentos]

1 hour ago, Wawchik said:

Probably the biggest reason players want boss scaling is that they're hard to fight solo

The core issue I see is that the bosses are generally fine to solo against, while in multiplayer they melt like candle wax on a fire.

[Milordo]

2 hours ago, Sacco said:

honestly if we need an autobalance feature, it should just add some health to bosses when playing multiplayer, because as of right now all of the bosses are so stupidly easy to beat with all the gears characters got. What i am saying is that if you are playing alone the bosses shouldn't have lower health.

Your concern is valid, that's why I also wrote "pure math". It's a number game. Klei just needs to calibrate all bosses HP, just once, using 1 player as the base and then --> add all the armor and auto-balance mechanic. In fact I did just that in my mod and all normal bosses last between circa 1 or 2 minutes, while raid bosses/super bosses last between 4-6 minutes.

For example, I thought Treeguards needed just a littleee touch-up. Since the player does 4,377 damage in 1 minute with a spear, I tested/fought alone a lot of treeguards to find the correct spot and buffed Treeguards from 3000 hp --> to 4500 hp. Then thanks to the armor and other mechanics of the auto-balance, I don't need to touch their hp again with multiple people since with more people we do now less damage but more damage compared when I was alone, resulting in ---> 5,665 damage in 1 minute as two, 6,566 damage in 1 minute as three, 6,695 damage in 1 minute as four, and so on.... and all of this with just a spear! You can imagine how it increases with other weapons.

Connected to this --->

1 hour ago, Wawchik said:

Probably the biggest reason players want boss scaling is that they're hard to fight solo

Yes, but it is only part of the truth that hides more of the problem than it actually is. The reality is, autobalance is a must in Don't Starve because; in 1/2 players scenario, let's be real, bosses hp is not that big of a problem, especially in today modern Don't Starve, and only very few rare exceptions, like Toadstool, must receive a nerf to their hp. The real problems for them are the mechanics. The numbers of attacks, patterns, cooldowns and what else Klei thought for bosses to be fought as a group. It's why from 2022 number 912317 post about Ancient Fuelweaver has been made, describing how he steals their cats and dogs and eat the last cheese on the fridge (puns intended). On the other side in 5/6 players scenario, which almost, almost nobody here talks or describe about it (which I understand completely since circa 60% of the playerbase plays alone) bosses are so fragile and weak that they get pulverize thanos style and only their core mechanics can save them and give you know, the fun of the videogame. It's why surprise surprise, Dragonfly and Toadstool are cheerished, in my experience, for a large group of players.

I could go on more but the point is, Klei should stop ignore this problem as it is extremly extreme for both sides and ruins A LOT the fun and enjoyment of Don't Starve. 

Edited June 8, 2025 by Milordo

[Tranoze]

1 hour ago, Milordo said:

Since the player does 4,377 damage in 1 minute with a spear

Not all players get to wear the same gear. If a mighty wolfgang attacking with his one and only dark sword, vs nightmare werepig, he expected to kill nightmare werepig before the sword break. Now a random wes come in and punch the pig once. He thought he helped, but thank to your brilliant math that consider all players dps are the same, the Wolfgang is now fked.

 

1 hour ago, Milordo said:

other side in 5/6 players scenario, which almost, almost nobody here talks or describe about it (which I understand completely since circa 60% of the playerbase plays alone) bosses are so fragile and weak that they get pulverize thanos style

There are another side of this, that is consumable. 6 players kill boss faster, yes, but they still use total 1 darksword of weapon durability when dealing 6800 damage to boss. Now with armor, if they need like 6 dark sword to kill one treeguard, what the point of killing treeguard?

I'd rather have active item that mutate boss, that triple the hp and double the reward, something like that, instead of just bonus armor without bonus reward, as if the fight waste more and the reward are the same (i said waste more, not harder, dont quote me wrong on this) , fighting together which previously a fun thing, no longer be fun when the try hard keep pushing the noobs away as they ruined the dps during the fight.

Edited June 8, 2025 by Tranoze

[xDarkSoul18x]

I think options are ultimately better. DST has never been a "Boss Rush" kind of game, at least for me. Similar to how they already have damage modifiers in settings they could, if they decide to add scaling allow us to change such settings. Personally, I feel like the "normal" bosses are great in terms of scale but raid bosses such as toad, after I fight them like twice I'm over it and it's more an annoying to get their drops. I like the simplicity of DS combat I just find it a bit boring for the raid boss types but I also find it fun, mainly like the prep to fight them if you know. I think it would be cool if the world did change a little based on how you are progressing the game. Like Lunar mobs if you are with Nightmare. Or if like toad/Klaus there was ways to activate hard modes or boss type? Maybe it's because I been playing for so long though and already beat the bosses like a bazillion times. Surely. But there's always room for improvement and options!

[AliceShiki]

I would like an option to increase boss HP depending on the number of players if it was something in the options that was off by default.

Newer players that struggle with the bosses want to be able to have an easier time with the bosses by playing with friends. There's no point in making things harder for those players.

But if it's an option that is off by default, then everyone can be happy with it, I'd say~

[Wawchik]

2 hours ago, Frosty_Mentos said:

The core issue I see is that the bosses are generally fine to solo against, while in multiplayer they melt like candle wax on a fire.

They could make the scaling configurable, I think some bosses are a bit overturned for solo players 

1 hour ago, Milordo said:

Yes, but it is only part of the truth that hides more of the problem than it actually is. The reality is, autobalance is a must in Don't Starve because; in 1/2 players scenario, let's be real, bosses hp is not that big of a problem, especially in today modern Don't Starve, and only very few rare exceptions, like Toadstool, must receive a nerf to their hp. The real problems for them are the mechanics. The numbers of attacks, patterns, cooldowns and what else Klei thought for bosses to be fought as a group. It's why from 2022 number 912317 post about Ancient Fuelweaver has been made, describing how he steals their cats and dogs and eat the last cheese on the fridge (puns intended). On the other side in 5/6 players scenario, which almost, almost nobody here talks or describe about it (which I understand completely since circa 60% of the playerbase plays alone) bosses are so fragile and weak that they get pulverize thanos style and only their core mechanics can save them and give you know, the fun of the videogame. It's why surprise surprise, Dragonfly and Toadstool are cheerished, in my experience, for a large group of players.

I could go on more but the point is, Klei should stop ignore this problem as it is extremly extreme for both sides and ruins A LOT the fun and enjoyment of Don't Starve. 

Hp is what ruins some bosses for me like if bee queen had half the health she has now she would be pretty fun to fight actually, their mechanics aren't unfair or anything, it's that their hp makes fighting them either boring or just annoying. But yes, hp is not the main problem, some bosses have their own issues but I feel like hp is what makes a lot of players feel like these bosses are just huge resource sinks because for me anything higher than 25k is just too much and ruins the boss while being advertised as "multiplayer orientated" even though their mechanics and all other special stuff doesn't matter because in a group you just hold f and the thing dies. I think dst bosses are best fought in a duo because then their mechanics are more bearable and hp isn't an issue anymore. Both issues would be fixed by adding hp and attack scaling it would just make the experience more customizable and would appeal to everyone, the game is trying to be like terraria with main focus of new updates being bosses yet the bosses themselves kind of suck for solo and for groups

[Milordo]

46 minutes ago, Tranoze said:

Not all players get to wear the same gear. If a mighty wolfgang attacking with his one and only dark sword, vs nightmare werepig, he expected to kill nightmare werepig before the sword break. Now a random wes come in and punch the pig once. He thought he helped, but thank to your brilliant math that consider all players dps are the same, the Wolfgang is now fked.

There are another side of this, that is consumable. 6 players kill boss faster, yes, but they still use total 1 darksword of weapon durability when dealing 6800 damage to boss. Now with armor, if they need like 6 dark sword to kill one treeguard, what the point of killing treeguard?

I'd rather have active item that mutate boss, that triple the hp and double the reward, something like that, instead of just bonus armor without bonus reward, as if the fight waste more and the reward are the same (i said waste more, not harder, dont quote me wrong on this) , fighting together which previously a fun thing, no longer be fun when the try hard keep pushing the noobs away as they ruined the dps during the fight.

There is a lot that is wrong here.

First, why is Wolfgang fked? My math is just simple math and doesn't change at all the dps of the fight, nor the outcome. In your example, when Wes comes to help you he will diminishes for only that shot Wolfgang damage, yes, but in conclusion it will instead really helps Wolf because it's more damage than what Wolfgang was doing, even if by veryyyy little. To keep it less complicated, the principle is together you're stronger than 1 person but not proportionally exaggerated, not that once another player add his damage in the fight it completely nullifies yours. Also pretty specific of Wes with a fist against Nightmare werepig. Why? Is he trolling? Conclusion, this is not a problem at all, even if your concern about the gear was understandable, it's already solved.   

Second you don't need 6 dark swords to kill one treeguard, what??? It doesn't add to the math. You're missing the point or didn't read carefully and understood how it works (or I didn't express myself clearly). I will also quote you wrong on this because again you're not making a point to find a mistake in the system I advised, which I'm more welcome to find, but only making bad assumptions at hominem. To add, lucky you, I tried in real time three treeguards spawned with dark swords together with a friend! Anddd....zero dark swords wasted. Both at 53%-50%. Considering three treeguards are 18 living logs....yeah. Although I also understand completely the worry of weapons durability, this didn't happen. This made the fight harder (although "harder" with treeguards is an euphemism xD) and resource management is a thing to Don't Starve. It always has existed. Conclusion it doesn't remove the fun fighting together or ruins the dps but makes the game funnier and more enjoyable since the bosses can have now some chances to fight with your group.

[Milordo]

5 hours ago, xDarkSoul18x said:

I think options are ultimately better. DST has never been a "Boss Rush" kind of game, at least for me. Similar to how they already have damage modifiers in settings they could, if they decide to add scaling allow us to change such settings. 

4 hours ago, AliceShiki said:

I would like an option to increase boss HP depending on the number of players if it was something in the options that was off by default.

Newer players that struggle with the bosses want to be able to have an easier time with the bosses by playing with friends. There's no point in making things harder for those players.

But if it's an option that is off by default, then everyone can be happy with it, I'd say~

4 hours ago, Wawchik said:

They could make the scaling configurable, I think some bosses are a bit overturned for solo players 

Look, I'm not opposed to the custom option when you make a world either, but there are big problems with that on the table 1) The players must be coordinated at all times if all bosses have flat hp and damage boost, which is absolulety not ideal, thus making the game more forced and harder to play it as one want, because I can't fight alone dragonfly, while the others 4 of my team are doing other tasks, due to her having x4 hp and x2 damage, for example 2) It cause all others problems that tranoze pointed out before, that wouldn't happen with my system, but would happen instead here with things like ruining dps, items durability, farming, ecc....

 

That's why I proposed before that system, that I didn't come up myself, but by uniting all the good points from the community, so made by all of you, during all these years, addressing already all these issues. Plus I would find it lazy personally if Klei would choose this, with all their resources they have, instead of a more elegant system that satisfies everybody, in addition to addressing all problems I have listed. 

4 hours ago, Wawchik said:

Hp is what ruins some bosses for me like if bee queen had half the health she has now she would be pretty fun to fight actually, their mechanics aren't unfair or anything, it's that their hp makes fighting them either boring or just annoying. But yes, hp is not the main problem, some bosses have their own issues but I feel like hp is what makes a lot of players feel like these bosses are just huge resource sinks because for me anything higher than 25k is just too much and ruins the boss while being advertised as "multiplayer orientated" even though their mechanics and all other special stuff doesn't matter because in a group you just hold f and the thing dies. 

I guess here it's a "de gustibus". A subjective thing. I don't have any problems with bee queen health, or any other boss health for what it matters (I have problems with her annoying mechanics) because especially bee queen (as an example), she is a super boss, aka a raid boss. By design she and the others in this category, needs to have a big healthpool for resource management, the difficulty on the longevity, ecc..... I think this mentality comes from mmo games and what I suppose Klei was thinking during 2015-2016, and I'm 100% in with it. Even more so, how much strategies and tools we had before and more now today, to deal with these bosses. I'm with @Sacco here. The only boss that breaks me this is Toadstool. 52k for 1 player is too much, oof.  

4 hours ago, Wawchik said:

the game is trying to be like terraria with main focus of new updates being bosses yet the bosses themselves kind of suck for solo and for groups

True. Ironic but also sad....

Edited June 9, 2025 by Milordo

[Maxil20]

2 hours ago, Milordo said:

The only boss that breaks me this is Toadstool. 125k for 1 player is too much, oof.  

Bit confused where you got this number from, Toad itself has 52.5K and misery has 99.9K, and has been that way since ANR (only time where it was higher was when it was released in Warts and All, which was changed very early on).



 

Edited June 8, 2025 by Maxil20

[Evelo]

"Should some key quest or survival bosses have a threatened state?"

what does this mean? If it means "key quest/bosses will have an effect that affects your game until it is killed" then yes plz. if it means "mistery toadstool-esque bosses" then no.

[Milordo]

44 minutes ago, Maxil20 said:

Bit confused where you got this number from, Toad itself has 52.5K and misery has 99.9K, and has been that way since ANR (only time where it was higher was when it was released in Warts and All, which was changed very early on).



 

Yeah, sorry my bad. 52 k. Dunno why I remember 125k for Toad. Probably during Warts and All? But I don't know very well. Thanks for the correction.

Still 52500 hp for 1 person. Oof. More than half of misery, oof.

[FillerText]

Most games that have the "progression scaling" mechanic screw it up, and make it scale so aggressively that it's either pointless to have stronger gear or outright detrimental. Also, don't Lunar rifts already do that? I feel indifferent about how rifts do that, but not minding it is much better than it actively detracting from the game.

[Echsrick]

nah....theres just no good reasons to buff bosses....i allready hate it that they buffed the health of the newest boss to be even more damage spongey WHILE having a stupid attack

[AliceShiki]

5 hours ago, Milordo said:

Look, I'm not opposed to the custom option when you make a world either, but there are big problems with that on the table 1) The players must be coordinated at all times if all bosses have flat hp and damage boost, which is absolulety not ideal, thus making the game more forced and harder to play it as one want, because I can't fight alone dragonfly, while the others 4 of my team are doing other tasks, due to her having x4 hp and x2 damage, for example 2) It cause all others problems that tranoze pointed out before, that wouldn't happen with my system, but would happen instead here with things like ruining dps, items durability, farming, ecc....

If you're making a world where boss health is scaling, then you and your friends already planned on killing bosses together in advance, so your worry here is for naught. You aren't turning on the scaling if you aren't planning on fighting together anyways... Hence why it needs to be a toggle that is off by default. Like... Pretty much the only bosses that could cause an inconvenience in this scenario are like, Treeguards, Lord of Fruit Flies and the Birchnut Treeguard, I guess? Maybe Spider Queen too if you bother with fighting those. The rest you could just plan to fight together, because if you aren't planning on fighting them together, why did you even turn the setting on?

And bosses don't need a damage boost, just an HP boost. They just need to not melt under the onslaught of multiple players, there's no point in increasing their damage. Klei could even make the scaling not be 1:1 to the number of players if you're worried about facing a Dragonfly with 80k HP with 3 players... They could like, make 2 players face x1.5 health, 3 players face x2 health, 4 players face x2.5 health and so on... And then have a 3rd option in the settings that make 2 players face x2 health, 3 players face x3 health and whatever.

As for wasting more resources (the stuff Tranoze brought up), that's just part of Multiplayer Don't Starve. You consume way more food in Winter too when playing with friends, and that's just part of the game. If you're worried about consuming your precious Living Logs that you were saving for an actual challenging boss, then don't use a Dark Sword for a Treeguard, use a Spear instead, or a Tentacle Spike (not a Ham Bat, because Pig Skin might also be scarce). It's really not a big deal, the whole game already makes you spend more resources when playing multiplayer, the fact enemies are the only thing that don't do it doesn't mean an optional setting that is off by default can't change that for bosses.

5 hours ago, Milordo said:

That's why I proposed before that system, that I didn't come up myself, but by uniting all the good points from the community, so made by all of you, during all these years, addressing already all these issues. Plus I would find it lazy personally if Klei would choose this, with all their resources they have, instead of a more elegant system that satisfies everybody, in addition to addressing all problems I have listed. 

I mean, I didn't even understand your formula, and I doubt most people in this thread did, and I doubt Klei has any intention of punishing players because they happen to want to play with their friends, so I don't see any form of scaling happening, unless it's off by default.