Bosses might need a quality of life plus multiplayer/scaling mechanic?

[Tranoze]

6 hours ago, Milordo said:

pretty specific of Wes with a fist against Nightmare werepig. Why? Is he trolling?

No, there are just lots of players with low day count, as they just joined the server and in their exploring state. If they see someone fighting boss, they probably going to come and punch it once or twice, and run away when hp low, and stay there and watch.
This is casual behavior i have witness countless time when i play.

And all wes players are pro, they can dodge bosses while doing punches or whacking boss with laterns they are holding as they havent crafted any weapon yet.
 

7 hours ago, Milordo said:

My math is just simple math and doesn't change at all the dps of the fight, nor the outcome.

If your math give strong enough armor to make the fight with mutiple people last longer, the punch from wes will significantly reduce damage from wolf.
If your math give low armor that the dps are not lowered, it doesnt do what it mean to do - multiplayer scaling.

and when player prepare weapon for bosses, unlike beefalo that have unlimited weapon durability, they just divide boss hp to weapon total damage. Not many boss have healing mechanic so its work.
For a casual wolfgang that fight werepig normally, a darksword with 13600 total damage is expected, as werepig does heal during the fight. If darksword suddenly hit less because of boss armor, it will break before werepig ded. This is not a pro-speedrun-wolf that can attack boss constantly, he dodge boss how fight intended, so with 20 damage per punch, he now no longer have enough dps to kill werepig as it now start healing more than he can deal damage. That why he fked.

[AliceShiki]

32 minutes ago, Tranoze said:

and when player prepare weapon for bosses, unlike beefalo that have unlimited weapon durability, they just divide boss hp to weapon total damage. Not many boss have healing mechanic so its work.

I think most people don't actually do the math and just overprepare, tbh.

... Or bring a Ham Bat. One of the two.

Like, I'm sure there are people (especially more experienced players) that actually take only what they need, but I think most people just bring a bunch of materials with them to make more weapons as they need... Especially for stuff like Nightmare Werepig that is right next to the Ruins.

[Tranoze]

13 minutes ago, AliceShiki said:

I think most people don't actually do the math and just overprepare, tbh.

... Or bring a Ham Bat. One of the two.

Like, I'm sure there are people (especially more experienced players) that actually take only what they need, but I think most people just bring a bunch of materials with them to make more weapons as they need... Especially for stuff like Nightmare Werepig that is right next to the Ruins.

Overprepare is fine, if you are killing boss that nobody want to kill. For bosses that are fun and people want to kill, spend one day going to ruin craft stuff is enough time for it to die by someone else. So for those bosses, only 2 question needed to answer:  Do i have enough resource/weapon to kill it? Do it have skill to kill it? If the answer is yes, you go for it straight away.

That why AG dies on spawn. Nightmare werepig dies on spawn on the first 400 days. Scrappy werepigs always alive.

[AliceShiki]

1 hour ago, Tranoze said:

Overprepare is fine, if you are killing boss that nobody want to kill. For bosses that are fun and people want to kill, spend one day going to ruin craft stuff is enough time for it to die by someone else. So for those bosses, only 2 question needed to answer:  Do i have enough resource/weapon to kill it? Do it have skill to kill it? If the answer is yes, you go for it straight away.

That why AG dies on spawn. Nightmare werepig dies on spawn on the first 400 days. Scrappy werepigs always alive.

Ah, that's fair. I didn't consider pubs when making my reply to you. I was just thinking of playing solo or playing with friends.

What you're saying makes sense when considering pubs~

[Milordo]

6 hours ago, FillerText said:

Most games that have the "progression scaling" mechanic screw it up, and make it scale so aggressively that it's either pointless to have stronger gear or outright detrimental. Also, don't Lunar rifts already do that? I feel indifferent about how rifts do that, but not minding it is much better than it actively detracting from the game.

Fallacy argument. Just because some did it wrong, therefore we shouldn't have one in Don't Starve? No. And it's funny when you talk about "it's pointless to have stronger gear" which is exactly the current situation of Don't Starve right now, due to not caring it and leaving the game completely unbalanced.

5 hours ago, Echsrick said:

nah....theres just no good reasons to buff bosses....i allready hate it that they buffed the health of the newest boss to be even more damage spongey WHILE having a stupid attack

Nobody here is talking about buffing bosses. At most adjusting hp. The discussion is about making boss fights, into fair fight for everybody, something that it's not possible right now and completely detrimental for the game.

[Milordo]

5 hours ago, AliceShiki said:

If you're making a world where boss health is scaling, then you and your friends already planned on killing bosses together in advance, so your worry here is for naught. You aren't turning on the scaling if you aren't planning on fighting together anyways... Hence why it needs to be a toggle that is off by default. Like... Pretty much the only bosses that could cause an inconvenience in this scenario are like, Treeguards, Lord of Fruit Flies and the Birchnut Treeguard, I guess? Maybe Spider Queen too if you bother with fighting those. The rest you could just plan to fight together, because if you aren't planning on fighting them together, why did you even turn the setting on?

And bosses don't need a damage boost, just an HP boost. They just need to not melt under the onslaught of multiple players, there's no point in increasing their damage. Klei could even make the scaling not be 1:1 to the number of players if you're worried about facing a Dragonfly with 80k HP with 3 players... They could like, make 2 players face x1.5 health, 3 players face x2 health, 4 players face x2.5 health and so on... And then have a 3rd option in the settings that make 2 players face x2 health, 3 players face x3 health and whatever.

As for wasting more resources (the stuff Tranoze brought up), that's just part of Multiplayer Don't Starve. You consume way more food in Winter too when playing with friends, and that's just part of the game. If you're worried about consuming your precious Living Logs that you were saving for an actual challenging boss, then don't use a Dark Sword for a Treeguard, use a Spear instead, or a Tentacle Spike (not a Ham Bat, because Pig Skin might also be scarce). It's really not a big deal, the whole game already makes you spend more resources when playing multiplayer, the fact enemies are the only thing that don't do it doesn't mean an optional setting that is off by default can't change that for bosses.

What about public servers or normal servers open, hmn? Can you plan and coordinate with other people? I don't know if my worry is really for naught when this super point was addressed 4 years ago and more. Also it's not about "if you aren't planning on fighting them together, why did you even turn the setting on?" there are multiple situations that you're not considering, making your point worse. What if the team is all scattered for multiple of reasons and now Deerclops is coming? Or bearger? Or great depth worm? And you wanna fight them, especially Deerclops because he spawned at the last day of winter? But now you know he has x4 health x2 damage and your contribution to the fight and team  is useless now. This message showes me a bit hard you don't have a lot of experience playing with multiple groups and underestimate a lot the problem. 

That being said I'm saying it again, I'm not opposed to the world configuration, but this is a big problem that you can't ignore and you didn't gave me a proper objective reason to not to. Plus yes I agree on the whole resources thing, don't take it on me.

5 hours ago, AliceShiki said:

I mean, I didn't even understand your formula, and I doubt most people in this thread did, and I doubt Klei has any intention of punishing players because they happen to want to play with their friends, so I don't see any form of scaling happening, unless it's off by default.

Bad hominem at bad hominem. Now point me, the very exact moment in this thread, that I said I want to punish players? Please enlight me. I do see instead a form of automatic scaling happening in real time because the custom option brings a lot of problems with it.

I apologize in advance if I didn't express myself clear with the system. I know I've given only some hints of it

5 hours ago, Tranoze said:

No, there are just lots of players with low day count, as they just joined the server and in their exploring state. If they see someone fighting boss, they probably going to come and punch it once or twice, and run away when hp low, and stay there and watch.
This is casual behavior i have witness countless time when i play.

Okay, I believe you.

5 hours ago, Tranoze said:

If your math give strong enough armor to make the fight with mutiple people last longer, the punch from wes will significantly reduce damage from wolf.
If your math give low armor that the dps are not lowered, it doesnt do what it mean to do - multiplayer scaling.

and when player prepare weapon for bosses, unlike beefalo that have unlimited weapon durability, they just divide boss hp to weapon total damage. Not many boss have healing mechanic so its work.
For a casual wolfgang that fight werepig normally, a darksword with 13600 total damage is expected, as werepig does heal during the fight. If darksword suddenly hit less because of boss armor, it will break before werepig ded. This is not a pro-speedrun-wolf that can attack boss constantly, he dodge boss how fight intended, so with 20 damage per punch, he now no longer have enough dps to kill werepig as it now start healing more than he can deal damage. That why he fked.

Okay so, since this is a very specific situation, you intrigue me and I went to test it myself. Yes, I didn't count the healing of werepig....of which in the case the auto-balance is only hp and damage scaling, there was an error, buttttttttt it's not what me and others said. It's Hp, damage maybe AND also mechanics, patterns, ecc... the same system Toadstool, Klaus and Ancient Fuelweaver has. Thanks for this reminder about Nightmare werepig because I forgot it and it is an important point to address about characters who has multipliers but it's fixable since Wolfgang does less damage but only flat, not percentage, and even if Werepig has now the healing auto-balanced based for two people, thanks to Wes punching, for a very small window, it will not matter as it's still extra damage and he will die and Wolfgang will not be fked. The math is correct. 

[Tranoze]

2 hours ago, Milordo said:

but only flat, not percentage

21 hours ago, Milordo said:

the same great system of Toadstool.

Wtf is your math. Toadstool is percentage.

Is that just "dude trust me" math?

[Milordo]

32 minutes ago, Tranoze said:

Wtf is your math. Toadstool is percentage.

Is that just "dude trust me" math?

Why are you so aggressive? Then no. What I was thinking is percentage for all characters expect for Wolfgang, Wigfrid, Wanda, Wendy and Wes, which are the multiplier characters. For fixing your specific situation, they have only a chosen flat reduction, making it less punishable if a Wes decided to join the fight.

Another idea was simply leave it as percentage but since the armor comes in when someone attacks the boss, there is a window now where the first hits hitting the NW, Wolfgang and Wes damage are still normal, until the sixth, maybe seventh hit when he will receive armor and all other mechanics and numbers balanced for 2 people.

If you have an idea or solution to the problem, you're welcome to add it.

Edited June 9, 2025 by Milordo

[Hungry French]

Yes. Just yes. 
Solo and Team boss fights are 2 different battles lol. 
In solo, bosses require a very long boss fight and waste a lot of resources. 
But in the team... All this is reduced by 2-6 times...
The boss reward basically doesn't play a big role, or it is initially too cheap in the case of seasonal bosses, or the reward of some bosses is equally useful for 1 and 6 players (Toadstool, Dragonfly, Crab King, Shadow Pieces). 
Boss variations... Bosses need reworks... Especially Classic bosses from DS and a new reign bosses.

10 hours ago, Tranoze said:

Нет, просто там много игроков с низким уровнем, которые только что присоединились к серверу и находятся в режиме исследования. Если они увидят, что кто-то сражается с боссом, они, скорее всего, подойдут и ударят его один или два раза, а когда у него останется мало здоровья, убегут и будут просто наблюдать.
Я бесчисленное количество раз наблюдал такое поведение, когда играл.

И все игроки в WES — профессионалы, они могут уклоняться от ударов боссов, нанося ответные удары или сбивая боссов с ног факелами, которые они держат в руках, поскольку у них ещё нет оружия.
 

Если ваша броня достаточно прочная, чтобы бой с несколькими противниками длился дольше, то удар Уэса значительно снизит урон от волка.
Если ваша броня недостаточно прочная, чтобы урон не снижался, то она не выполняет свою функцию — масштабирование в многопользовательском режиме.

и когда игрок готовит оружие для боссов, в отличие от бифало, у которых неограниченный запас прочности оружия, они просто делят здоровье босса на общий урон оружия. Не у многих боссов есть механика исцеления, так что это работает.
Для обычной волчьей стаи, которая сражается с оборотнем-свиньёй, ожидается, что тёмный меч нанесёт 13600 единиц урона, так как оборотень-свинья исцеляется во время боя. Если тёмный меч внезапно нанесёт меньше урона из-за брони босса, он сломается раньше, чем оборотень-свинья умрёт. Это не профессиональный волк-спринтер, который может постоянно атаковать босса, он уклоняется от босса так, как задумал бой, поэтому с 20 единицами урона за удар у него теперь недостаточно урона, чтобы убить оборотня-свинью, так как она теперь исцеляется быстрее, чем он наносит урон. Вот почему он облажался.

Everything is simple. Even if the multiplier is 1 to 1. 
Each player must have the same number of weapons, that is, if a solo boss dies from 1 shadow sword, then everyone in the team must have one.

Elden Ring Nightreign was released a week ago, and even there is hp scaling... DST not have it 10 years lol

[FreyaMaluk]

On 6/8/2025 at 8:43 AM, Edible Coal said:

i think scaling would create annoying cases where is mandatory for everyone to fight a boss, which not everyone wants to 

this could be easily applied to a radius of engagement. that way new players don't need to be involved. 
I think it is a great idea to scale with number of players.

Edited June 9, 2025 by FreyaMaluk

[ShakerGER]

The entire poll is flawed since it's not only very loaded in one direction but "threatend state" also very open for interpretation.

[Well-met]

I have no idea what any of these options are talking about except the 1st to which I voted no because they're all doable solo

[AliceShiki]

18 hours ago, Milordo said:

What about public servers or normal servers open, hmn?

You keep the setting off in those, that's why it would be a setting that is off by default.

18 hours ago, Milordo said:

Also it's not about "if you aren't planning on fighting them together, why did you even turn the setting on?" there are multiple situations that you're not considering, making your point worse. What if the team is all scattered for multiple of reasons and now Deerclops is coming? Or bearger?

Deerclops comes at a fixed date, so why would you be scattered in day 30 in the first place?

And the game also gives you warning signs when it's coming, so even on year 2 onwards, the party can just rush to group together if they're scared of Deerclops.

As for Bearger, if you don't wanna fight it properly, just let it die to Treeguards... And if you wanna fight it properly, same thing as Deerclops, the party can just rush to group together. Super Minor issue, really.

18 hours ago, Milordo said:

Or great depth worm?

You mean that boss that almost never spawns and that most people just flee from anyways? Uhn... Yeah, I don't see why this one matters, but sure, it would have more HP for you to deal with if you wanted to fight it for some reason.

18 hours ago, Milordo said:

But now you know he has x4 health x2 damage

Just x4 HP in a party of 4 people (which is almost impossible to find in the first place, more realistically would be x2 or x3 HP for 2 people or 3 people respectively... Assuming you're even going with the idea of full scaling per party member), not x2 damage. Buffing enemy damage would be a dumb idea... And yeah, just group up if you're scared of it and don't think you can solo it. That's why you turned on the setting, to fight bosses together with your friends in the first place.

It's not like it's hard to kite a boss without really attacking it while you wait for your friends anyways.

18 hours ago, Milordo said:

This message showes me a bit hard you don't have a lot of experience playing with multiple groups and underestimate a lot the problem. 

No, you're the one trying to pretend it's hard to coordinate while playing with friends over voice chat... It really isn't. Especially for bosses with fixed spawn date like Deerclops, or bosses that are easily killable by Treeguards like Bearger.

Not to mention the fact the two of us already mentioned every single boss that can target the player without the player purposefully trying to initiate the fight, and the number is minimal and would barely make a difference to the overall experience.

Especially because you wouldn't turn on the setting when playing with complete newbies, so you wouldn't need to solo Treeguards for anyone that is too scared of facing them on their own, so the extra enemy HP wouldn't come up in most situations of bosses that can attack the player unprovoked.

18 hours ago, Milordo said:

but this is a big problem that you can't ignore and you didn't gave me a proper objective reason to not to.

I see no problem, so I'm not sure what exactly you're referring to with "this". You brought up multiple points in this comment, so it's hard to know what in specific you're talking about.

18 hours ago, Milordo said:

Bad hominem at bad hominem. Now point me, the very exact moment in this thread, that I said I want to punish players? Please enlight me. I do see instead a form of automatic scaling happening in real time because the custom option brings a lot of problems with it.

Increasing boss HP (or reducing boss' damage taken) because you're playing with friends is punishing players for playing with friends by default. You don't need to say it explicitly, the mechanic does this by itself.

Hence why I said it needs to be optional and off by default, because it's a challenge run mechanic that purposefully makes things harder for the players, which is something you don't want on by default.

14 hours ago, Hungry French said:

Elden Ring Nightreign was released a week ago, and even there is hp scaling... DST not have it 10 years lol

HP Scaling for multiplayer games is a conscious design decision that devs may or may not implement.

I think some Monster Hunter games have it too, and there is nothing wrong with it.

OTOH, I don't think Time Crisis 4 or 30XX have any HP scaling mechanics for multiple players... The games just become easier if you have friends playing with you and that is that... And that's fine. Both design decisions are valid, and it's up to the devs to choose which one they found to be better for the experience they want to deliver.

[Edible Coal]

If  the option is on by default , then it would create a lot of issue or even player gate keeping other from fighting boss because they dont have good dps.

if is off  by default, then.....why dont you use a mod?

it just creates more issue then sloving a minor issue.

I would perfer if theres a item that buff bosses but make them drop more loot

[AliceShiki]

3 hours ago, Edible Coal said:

if is off  by default, then.....why dont you use a mod?

I love mods for DST, but mods don't exist on consoles, so... I don't think "why don't you use a mod?" is a valid counterpoint to suggestions... Like, I totally agree with suggesting that people use mods as a walkaround, but considering consoles exist, it's still something that makes a suggestion worthwhile.

3 hours ago, Edible Coal said:

I would perfer if theres a item that buff bosses but make them drop more loot

This could be cool too~

[Hungry French]

On 10.06.2025 at 07:08, AliceShiki said:

В таких случаях вы отключаете эту функцию, поэтому она отключена по умолчанию.

Дирклопс появляется в определённое время, так почему же вы должны быть рассеянным на 30-й день?

И в игре есть предупреждающие знаки, когда это происходит, так что даже во втором году и далее группа может просто собраться вместе, если они боятся Дирклопса.

Что касается Медвежонка, то если вы не хотите сражаться с ним по-настоящему, просто дайте ему умереть от рук Древесных Стражей... А если вы хотите сразиться с ним по-настоящему, то, как и в случае с Оленем, группа может просто собраться вместе. На самом деле, это очень незначительная проблема.

Вы имеете в виду того босса, который почти никогда не появляется и от которого большинство людей всё равно убегают? Хм... Да, я не понимаю, почему это важно, но, конечно, у него было бы больше здоровья, если бы вы по какой-то причине захотели с ним сразиться.

Просто х4 здоровья в группе из 4 человек (что в принципе почти невозможно найти, более реалистично было бы х2 или х3 здоровья для 2 или 3 человек соответственно... Если вы вообще рассматриваете идею полного масштабирования для каждого члена группы), а не х2 урона. Увеличивать урон по врагу было бы глупо... И да, просто объединитесь в группу, если вы боитесь и не думаете, что сможете справиться в одиночку. Вот почему вы включили эту настройку, чтобы в первую очередь сражаться с боссами вместе со своими друзьями.

В любом случае, не так уж сложно дразнить босса, не атакуя его по-настоящему, пока вы ждёте своих друзей.

Нет, это ты пытаешься сделать вид, что сложно координировать действия, играя с друзьями в голосовом чате... На самом деле это не так. Особенно для боссов с фиксированной датой появления, таких как Дирклопс, или боссов, которых легко убить с помощью Древесных стражей, таких как Беаргер.

Не говоря уже о том, что мы с вами уже упомянули каждого босса, который может напасть на игрока, даже если игрок не пытается намеренно начать бой, а их количество минимально и едва ли повлияет на общее впечатление.

Тем более что вы не стали бы включать эту настройку, если бы играли с абсолютными новичками, так что вам не пришлось бы сражаться с Древесными стражами в одиночку за тех, кто слишком боится встретиться с ними один на один, так что дополнительные единицы здоровья врагов не появлялись бы в большинстве ситуаций с боссами, которые могут атаковать игрока без предупреждения.

Я не вижу проблемы, поэтому не совсем понимаю, что именно вы имеете в виду под «этим». В этом комментарии вы затронули несколько моментов, поэтому трудно понять, о чём именно вы говорите.

Увеличение здоровья босса (или уменьшение урона, получаемого боссом) из-за того, что вы играете с друзьями, по умолчанию наказывает игроков за игру с друзьями. Вам не нужно говорить об этом напрямую, механика делает это сама.

Вот почему я сказал, что это должно быть необязательно и по умолчанию отключено, потому что это механика, усложняющая игру для игроков, а это то, что вы не хотите видеть по умолчанию.

Масштабирование HP для многопользовательских игр — это осознанное дизайнерское решение, которое разработчики могут реализовать, а могут и не реализовать.

Я думаю, что в некоторых играх серии Monster Hunter это тоже есть, и в этом нет ничего плохого.

С другой стороны, я не думаю, что в Time Crisis 4 или 30XX есть какая-то механика масштабирования здоровья для нескольких игроков... Игры просто становятся проще, если с вами играют друзья, вот и всё... И это нормально. Оба дизайнерских решения допустимы, и разработчики сами решают, какое из них лучше подходит для того опыта, который они хотят предоставить.

Any design decisions may be acceptable, but not all of them are correct.

[Milordo]

On 6/10/2025 at 6:08 AM, AliceShiki said:

--snip--

Ookay then. I'll trust you on the custom settings. 

By the way, I never meant "it's hard to coordinate with the team". You're now forced to do bosses together that's it. You can't split tasks.

On 6/10/2025 at 6:08 AM, AliceShiki said:

Increasing boss HP (or reducing boss' damage taken) because you're playing with friends is punishing players for playing with friends by default. You don't need to say it explicitly, the mechanic does this by itself.

The games just become easier if you have friends playing with you and that is that... And that's fine. .

No. It makes the game more fun and less boring and anti-fun. It also still incentives them, because you still take bosses better and faster in groups than alone. I wrote it clear as water. This problem it's absolutely not fine, and whenever it's custom settings or a procedural mechanic the solution, it should be solved and addressed it. It detracts and ruins the game for many people. I've seen it ad nauseam, where they need to nerf themselves otherwise the boss fight part of the game doesn't exist. 

[AliceShiki]

3 hours ago, Milordo said:

No. It makes the game more fun and less boring and anti-fun.

It doesn't matter what you think about how it makes things fun. If you are making enemies stronger because you're fighting with multiple players, you are punishing the players for playing co-op.

This isn't a subjective statement, it's an objective one. It's game design 101. Fun is subjective and what you find fun is something that will frustrate other people that are bad at the game and need friends to beat the boss... And for this specific part of the discussion, it's irrelevant, because I was not talking about fun. I'm talking about something very objective. Things getting harder because you're on co-op means you're punished for playing co-op. There is no arguing against that.

[Milordo]

54 minutes ago, AliceShiki said:

It doesn't matter what you think about how it makes things fun. If you are making enemies stronger because you're fighting with multiple players, you are punishing the players for playing co-op.

This isn't a subjective statement, it's an objective one. It's game design 101. Fun is subjective and what you find fun is something that will frustrate other people that are bad at the game and need friends to beat the boss... And for this specific part of the discussion, it's irrelevant, because I was not talking about fun. I'm talking about something very objective. Things getting harder because you're on co-op means you're punished for playing co-op. There is no arguing against that.

Then it's also subjective your statement because you get punished for playing together with people because you don't get to learn or experience the boss and he die instantly. I really don't understand at all your comment and what you wrote, how it is 101 objectivly bad to make things balanced for all players (something that a lot and good videogames do, but it is even human logic), since I'm assuming your using "punishing" as denigrating. It only makes me think you wrote this just to be right. 

[AliceShiki]

5 hours ago, Milordo said:

how it is 101 objectivly bad to make things balanced for all players

I never said that. I specifically said that HP scaling based on multiplayer is a conscious design decision that some devs may or may not choose to do, You're putting words in my mouth.

Here, I'll just quote myself

On 6/10/2025 at 1:08 AM, AliceShiki said:

HP Scaling for multiplayer games is a conscious design decision that devs may or may not implement.

I think some Monster Hunter games have it too, and there is nothing wrong with it.

OTOH, I don't think Time Crisis 4 or 30XX have any HP scaling mechanics for multiple players... The games just become easier if you have friends playing with you and that is that... And that's fine. Both design decisions are valid, and it's up to the devs to choose which one they found to be better for the experience they want to deliver.

With this out of the way...

5 hours ago, Milordo said:

since I'm assuming your using "punishing" as denigrating

Wrong assumption. I said it because it is what it objectively is.

Just like dying in Souls games making you lose your Souls is a way of punishing the player for death. Or in Don't Starve, losing max health when you die is a way of punishing the player for death.

It just is what it is. Some mechanics are meant to punish players, others are not. There is nothing denigrating about objectively assessing the purpose of a mechanic. I'm just stating what it is as a matter of fact. Multiplayer health scaling punishes the player for playing with friends... Which is a valid design decision, but doesn't change the fact it is punishing the player for playing with friends anyways.

5 hours ago, Milordo said:

because you get punished for playing together with people because you don't get to learn or experience the boss and he die instantly.

Not learning something you don't need to learn is not punishing game design, what are you talking about? If you're always playing with 6 Wolfgangs, you don't need to learn any boss pattern.

And if you are playing with 2~3 Wilsons, you will learn the boss' patterns anyways, or you'll do it by looking a youtube video or by playing alone and using rollbacks to learn the boss... Usual stuff, really.

You say I'm saying something "just to be right", but we both know this argument of yours was written in bad faith, so this is plain ridiculous.

[Edible Coal]

they could just add a boss health mult, the easiest way to slove this problem.

although i doubt any server would ever bother adjusting this setting

[Milordo]

7 hours ago, AliceShiki said:

--snip--

Well, it was all in bad faith with how you wrote things or I read things. So it's all a misunderstanding and you just wanted to point out basic things. Bruh.

Edited June 12, 2025 by Milordo

[Milordo]

Just checking in for the results and I'm very disappointed from the community that half don't want a form of scaling boss difficulty. How it is such a divisive point genuinely baffles me, and I can only suspect it's due to them not having experience from both ends and because it's not proposed by Klei. If Klei finally tomorrow decides to put some form of autobalanced boss fight everyone would be happy.

Edited June 14, 2025 by Milordo

[Edible Coal]

45 minutes ago, Milordo said:

Just checking in for the results and I'm very disappointed from the community that half don't want a form of scaling boss difficulty. How it is such a divisive point genuinely baffles me, and I can only suspect it's due to them not having experience from both ends and because it's not proposed by Klei. If Klei finally tomorrow decides to put some form of autobalanced boss fight everyone would be happy.

people dont like artificial challenge unless given a reason ( more loot )