Who do people think is the most evil wagstaff or Charlie

[Clopsy627]

I think wagstaff is more evil because Charlie has her humanity and nice personality deep down while wagstaff has always been a emotionless monster just trying to advance science at any cost.

[GenomeSquirrel]

should i hate the one who tries to tries to kill me more often yet halfheartedly, or the one who puts a lot of time into a few death machines?

does Wagstaff including me in the death machine manufacturing process make him lazy or considerate?

 

at the moment I'm conflicted

 

 

[Cheggf]

Did Deerclops write this post? 

[shaurun]

Wagstaff is not evil, he is not plotting on how to make your life worse. He just values his goals more than anything. He's ultrafocused mad scientist. 

And Charlie is a predator.

[Erathia]

We don’t know Wagstaff’s full backstory, we only start observing him from the point when he’s already an adult. We have no idea what he went through earlier or what might have shaped his character and decisions, which makes it harder to understand his motivations and behavior. In contrast, it’s easier to empathize with Charlie, she’s connected to Winona, and we know her story from her younger years, before she fully developed as a character. Because of that, her transformation feels more understandable and emotionally engaging.

That’s why I believe comparing these two characters at this stage doesn’t make much sense. It’s very likely that the way Wagstaff treats others, along with his obsession and apparent lack of morality, is heavily influenced by childhood experiences or other unknown events from his past.

[Mike23Ua]

Charlie was pulled in against her will, and then possessed.

Wagstaff on the other-hand was some bumbling bafoon a petty thief, fascinated with ending the world sooner.

[Owlrust]

I mean, Wagstaff just wants to bring the miracles from the Constant to revolutionize the real world, and Charlie doesn't really get a say in the goings-on but it kinda feels like she's trying to resist a little in her own way. I think the real evils are the TRUE background forces that pre-date everyone in the Constant, either celestial or shadow side.

[Echsrick]

6 hours ago, shaurun said:

he is not plotting on how to make your life worse.

....are you absolutly sure by that?

[Johnny_Waffles]

the most evil is pearl, she makes me do all that even though she can teleport just for a pearl which she only gives us to give to her ex to see if they can get back together. I can't wait to strand her home in the worst spot imaginable.

[Clopsy627]

13 hours ago, Owlrust said:

I mean, Wagstaff just wants to bring the miracles from the Constant to revolutionize the real world, and Charlie doesn't really get a say in the goings-on but it kinda feels like she's trying to resist a little in her own way. I think the real evils are the TRUE background forces that pre-date everyone in the Constant, either celestial or shadow side.

Good point but also im pretty sure he had a quote that mentioned military applications for nightmare fuel so his idea of revolutionary science would likely be the downfall of humanity

[Frosty_Mentos]

I feel like Charlie is the lesser of two evils as she basically throws in new activities and entertainment for survivors to have fun with while trying not to die. 

Wagstaff is basically the exploiter, making trash everywhere as well as trying to harness moon's power for himself.

Charlie feels or is influenced to owe a debt to shadows. Unsure if she's trying to repay Tenebreu or the entity that's fused with her to be working towards the goal of bringing in ruin to the world.

So... Technically there are no good sides in this world. Darkness and Enlightenment are two extremes that if either would prevail there would be total ruin.

[Dr. Safety]

Wagstaff is more of a general evil, while Charlie is more of an immediate evil. I can't think of a better way to explain it. We can all pretty much agree that Wagstaff does not have good intentions and is potentially the most dangerous character. He never tries to kill the survivors though. Charlie does.

My vote goes to Charlie being more evil

[Bumber64]

10 hours ago, Clopsy627 said:

Good point but also im pretty sure he had a quote that mentioned military applications for nightmare fuel so his idea of revolutionary science would likely be the downfall of humanity

Nuclear weapons also have the power to end humanity. It's a question of who wields them.

Wagstaff is an American* inventor from a time just after WWI. The US government is likely already interested in his work, even without knowing WWII is just decades away. (Granted Wagstaff has more in common with Cave Johnson than Oppenheimer. He's even likely to die of moon rock poisoning.)

*His factory was in Ohio. That figures, doesn't it? Can't even run a factory in Ohio.

Edited June 8, 2025 by Bumber64

[shaurun]

On 6/7/2025 at 7:54 AM, Echsrick said:

....are you absolutly sure by that?

Thinking of it, it's complecated. I love to sympathize those who is considered evil, probably. From one side, he found an entry to a magic parallel reality. He could achieve great success, become famous and rich, probably, but he doesn't want to share his discovery with people. Or he's afraid to lose this access, we don't know.

Anyway, he's crazy old man, he's sickly possessed by trash collecting, he's kinda egoistic - but still a human, and I can understand him, so I can't say he's the greatest evil of the Constant. And yes his actions don't seem to be truely evil. Trading a person's life for some artifact - ok, not all people have same morale compass as the majority. It's 1 life vs great experiment. Many doctors in past tortured their patients just to understand their sickness better (for the sake of the greater knowledge). So ofc he's not a person you can rely on, not a person you'd like to become friends with, and probably sometimes you'd like to beat the crap out of him. But it doesn't make him the truely evil in my eyes.

 

Edited June 8, 2025 by shaurun

[Bumber64]

Thomas Edison was also born in Ohio. Coincidence?

[Hi.]

On 6/6/2025 at 6:05 PM, shaurun said:

And Charlie is a predator

huh?

[shaurun]

22 minutes ago, Hi. said:

huh?

A monster who hunts you at night (well, half-monster, I don't see her human side as an evil being, but the monster side definetely is). 

[Hi.]

16 hours ago, shaurun said:

A monster who hunts you at night (well, half-monster, I don't see her human side as an evil being, but the monster side definetely is). 

Oh I thought you meant something else

[PunkShark]

I would say Charlie, just because of her plans will essentially bring Armageddon to our doorstep.
Wagstaff is not "evil", he has good intentions for the better of mankind, but the road to hell is paved with good intentions. He wants to revolutionize the world in all manner of ways. War-machines, solving world crisis' like hunger. He's not a good man, but he's not a bad man either. He doesn't care of the consequences that lead to his success.
But with such knowledge he possesses he is absolutely dangerous. But he is also way over his head with the power he thinks he can control. abusing godly powers for his path to innovation.

A great example of a grey-area scientist is Justus Von Liebig. A german scientist and chemist who revolutionized the world with the Haber Process, essentially saving half of the world's population with this technique related to mass produce of fertilizer during the crisis of world hunger. 
On the other hand, he is also infamously known as "the father of chemical warfare" for inventing chlorine gas during world war 1 which also resulted at least a thousand+ deaths in the Second Battle of Ypres

Wagstaff really is not too far off from this. in a sense, he's actually quite realistic regarding the morality of a person. Whether its war or solving a world crisis. The man's gonna find ways to basically become a grade-A innovator to solve problems or innovate to none the world has seen before. 

Still, despite all of that, as a person. he's not a good guy, he's a thief, a con-man, and a person who only cares about his own success, and nothing's gonna stop him from getting to his goals. We've all seen his acts and how he does it. But does this all make him inherently, evil? (rhetorical) 

Charlie is more or less yes, cause while she herself isn't all too normal compared to what she previously has been and is likely being controlled by forces beyond our own, with the likes of Metheus controlling her as well as Charlie being generally influenced by Them. Her plan is to set Them free. and as we've seen by the ancient's murals the outcome of that is not pretty. None of that bodes well, despite whatever the void masques wants you to believe. That what They're giving you is a gift to immortality if you become part of it.