Why is progression just bosses and fetch quests now?

[Evelo]

43 minutes ago, xhyom said:

I really agree that having more bosses attacking you directly is simply worse for the game, at some point it becomes a chore. But I would also like some of them to influence our survival, not by making a le epic TEST OF SURVIVAL by launching attacks that we have to withstand, but by changing our world, which we use to survive in our own way, even if in a subtle way just to encourage us to go after these villains who are getting in our way in some way.

This is exactly what attacking means. Not literally going forth and smacking the player. Deerclops doesn't just attack the player, she wants to destroy structures. Bearger just wants food and will destroy stuff to get to it. Sure houndwaves and antlion can do damage directly to the player, but antlion causes those sinkholes that do more damage to traversal and the base than to the player themselves.

My off the cuff idea about toadstool creating miasma was more about preservation of foods. You can go into the caves and survive no problem if you put all your food into bundling wraps and find a safe space to eat. Maybe I just think it is better for the game and others thing it is worse for the game. We can have differing opinions. We just think each other is wrong. is what it is yknow.

[00petar00]

On 5/30/2025 at 2:03 AM, Evelo said:

Yes. Antlion is one of the best bosses added to date. I know many people will disagree with me but it is fundamentally a proper Don't Starve boss. Much like Bearger, OG Dfly, and Deerclops. Simply forcing players to deal with the struggle with them being alive (occasional pit traps with Antlion or falling boulders), or kill the creature to prevent it from continuing. At least for a little while.

I dislike antlion and the boss can be completely ignored. The players that suffer the most are the ones walking though the area that you were in that is now filled with sinkholes.

In caves boulders can be stopped with pillars but it can still be useful when you need rocks in the early game for dragonfly walls, catapults, statues and so on.

It is almost never worth to go out of your way to kill Antlion unless you are building lazy deserters for multiplayer experience.

17 hours ago, Evelo said:

Look, my point is that Klei is adding ONLY optional bosses.

There is only so much developers can do when the game already has a lot of content, players already have enough stuff to deal with and time is a resource that needs to be carefully managed or DST wouldn't be fun to play anymore.

17 hours ago, Evelo said:

The Greater Depths worm can be despawned easily but Antlion was the last overtly hostile boss that has to be dealt with in some way or another.

I don't see much difference between the two bosses except that Antlion is a little bit more annoying but both can easily be avoided and it is actually preferable to do so.

17 hours ago, Evelo said:

Just something to make the player actually seek out the boss fights because, at least to me, having every boss be optional is unfun. I want to feel like I am prey in this hostile world.

This could be a good but it needs to be very carefully implemented as the ideas you suggested would've been terrible If every optional boss comes to the player in some capacity.

Maybe something for FW and CC could be done to encourage players to go on a quest to defeat the bosses? Newer players won't know that these are the bosses that allow them to access late game rifts.

17 hours ago, Evelo said:

I want to feel like I am prey in this hostile world.

The issue with this is that new players feel like that and a DST has to allow players to overcome challenges and thrive, survival difficulty can't scale and be everpresent.

17 hours ago, Evelo said:

every 30-45 days a boss comes to terrorize you sounds a lot more interesting.

To a very small minority of the playerbase, it would ruin what DST and there would no longer be emergent gameplay but a battle arena like game.

 

[Uedo]

On 5/26/2025 at 8:36 PM, Mike23Ua said:

Bro I’m going to ignore everything you just said (I actually read it, I just choose to ignore it..) and just point out that there are 5 different difficulty settings for DST for players to choose from before launching a game world.. there should be more survival based content in a game mode labeled survival, and like-wise there should be significantly less survival content in a more Sandbox-y mode.

On top of that- Klei added an Island into DST that had its own mobs, resources and weather effect.

Unfortunately… they’ve yet to add any additional islands similar to it- which I’m not going to lie is them either being incredibly lazy (& only doing bosses) OR it’s their inexperience with other games that do “Islands” with Island specific mobs, weather and resources.

I can list a ton of examples but today I’ll focus on Atlas, The Survivalist, and coming as soon as next month: 7 Days to Die.

Those three games have Biome Specific weather & challenges.

you can not traverse the hot lands in survivalists without heat protective gear or foods that cool you down etc.

Its important that I stress Biome & Island specific weather effects though.

A “Biome” weather effect would be like if Acid rain only drops down into the Lunar Grotto and nowhere else in caves.

an “Island” weather effect can span every biome that is on that island (Lunar Island or the entire Hamlet DLC.)

I think Klei actually CAN add new survival challenges that aren’t these huge scripted boss fights. They just don’t want to.. (maybe it’s too much work compared to slapping a new boss into the game every 4 months) 

Yeah but Mike, it comes back to the same thing again. The most likely option is that they don't want to. With the greatest of respect, you don't know how disappointing it is (perhaps not on a personal level, but on a resource/time level) to just pack-up what you're doing, move onto another element of dev and take it in a direction you didn't really want to because of one person's opinion. 

I'm currently making a game, mainly because of posts like yours and me telling you to learn how to do it yourself - I've just had to go back and re-draw more sprites and edit my tile palettes because of repeated suggestions for me to, it's really frustrating because where i'm at is the developing of the narrative and trialling a new dialogue system. I'm not doing what I want to be doing which takes my focus from something i'd rather be working on and something that is arguably more important in the grand scheme of things, but because i'm a human being and biased I have to take into account the feedback, cause clearly that's something that stands out, so it must be important.

It's just not that simple, as always, Mike. If we had unlimited time, money, resources and will power you could do whatever you liked, whenever you liked, but nobody does so they can't. It's really easy to think of a thing, it's harder to implement it - you definitely know this.

FYI 'Slapping a new boss into the game every 4 months' - With a small team, that's a quick turn-around. Your point is insane. Make one boss, in whatever engine you want, with real time combat and collision and registering the values and i'll be very very impressed with you. Don't be lazy.

[Evelo]

16 minutes ago, Wraif said:

I agree, even though you could've gone harsher; no shame in not sugar-coating things.

Ah yes, because being rude is acceptable.

[Milordo]

The thing is, the idea of Evelo is just an idea as he said, not something he advocates 100% step by step, and a possible base for something more. I hate if those effects would come at me every time for ever but if they could been implemented that once you kill just for once their corresponding bosses and never come back, than I would be down for it and it would be more balanced. New players would discover it blind, have all the time to defend themselves and prepare for taking down Toadstool, Crab king, Ancient Guardian, ecc.... while more advanced players could strategically prepare themselves in advance since day 1 who take down first and then rest.

[00petar00]

1 hour ago, Wraif said:

I agree, even though you could've gone harsher; no shame in not sugar-coating things.

I don't think that I sugar coated anything, Evelo just gave a suggestion or he put his thoughts out to see how others feel about it. I would go as far to say that it has merit when it comes to CC and FW.

It is possible to be much more aggressive without being rude but what is the reason to do it? I usually try to match the energy and I've never seen Evelo do that. This wouldn't change anyone's mind and it would actually put people against you.

[Mike23Ua]

7 hours ago, Uedo said:

Yeah but Mike, it comes back to the same thing again. The most likely option is that they don't want to. With the greatest of respect, you don't know how disappointing it is (perhaps not on a personal level, but on a resource/time level) to just pack-up what you're doing, move onto another element of dev and take it in a direction you didn't really want to because of one person's opinion. 

I'm currently making a game, mainly because of posts like yours and me telling you to learn how to do it yourself - I've just had to go back and re-draw more sprites and edit my tile palettes because of repeated suggestions for me to, it's really frustrating because where i'm at is the developing of the narrative and trialling a new dialogue system. I'm not doing what I want to be doing which takes my focus from something i'd rather be working on and something that is arguably more important in the grand scheme of things, but because i'm a human being and biased I have to take into account the feedback, cause clearly that's something that stands out, so it must be important.

It's just not that simple, as always, Mike. If we had unlimited time, money, resources and will power you could do whatever you liked, whenever you liked, but nobody does so they can't. It's really easy to think of a thing, it's harder to implement it - you definitely know this.

FYI 'Slapping a new boss into the game every 4 months' - With a small team, that's a quick turn-around. Your point is insane. Make one boss, in whatever engine you want, with real time combat and collision and registering the values and i'll be very very impressed with you. Don't be lazy.

I’m one person, Klei is a team of ‘multiple’ people, they create a boss that cooks as an idea for 4 months, they release a beta for said boss that remains in beta for what’s it been now? 2 weeks maybe more?? We did not get ANY beta changes on the usual Thursday we get changes, so they will likely wait till next Thursday for a huge beta update or something.

YOU are One person, and if your trying to create a game completely by yourself, it’s not impossible.. but you won’t have the same benefits of having a “Klei sized” group to work together with either.

It definitely should not take 4 months to release one new boss.. especially from a team that use to release updates once per month.

During those 4 months before the current new boss beta they could’ve done literally anything, heck man just changing Dragonfly so the player needs to drop a Gem or an Egg into one of her Magma ponds to spawn her rather than her just sitting out in the open to be the #1 new player killing trap that she currently is when most other bosses require some obscure method of spawning.. would be nice.

Edited May 31, 2025 by Mike23Ua

[Maxil20]

50 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

they release a beta for said boss that remains in beta for what’s it been now? 2 weeks maybe more??

It has been just over 1 week.

50 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

It definitely should not take 4 months to release one new boss..

If you omit all the QOL improvements they have also done, which include controller improvements, something you have been asking for on a myriad of occasions, and also including things like new boons/lunar hail effects/shock effects, then it can just be summed up to one new boss.

[Uedo]

5 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

I’m one person, Klei is a team of ‘multiple’ people, they create a boss that cooks as an idea for 4 months, they release a beta for said boss that remains in beta for what’s it been now? 2 weeks maybe more?? We did not get ANY beta changes on the usual Thursday we get changes, so they will likely wait till next Thursday for a huge beta update or something.

YOU are One person, and if your trying to create a game completely by yourself, it’s not impossible.. but you won’t have the same benefits of having a “Klei sized” group to work together with either.

It definitely should not take 4 months to release one new boss.. especially from a team that use to release updates once per month.

During those 4 months before the current new boss beta they could’ve done literally anything, heck man just changing Dragonfly so the player needs to drop a Gem or an Egg into one of her Magma ponds to spawn her rather than her just sitting out in the open to be the #1 new player killing trap that she currently is when most other bosses require some obscure method of spawning.. would be nice.

You sound so ungrateful.

[Echsrick]

ok, what COULD be made for progressing the "story"? besides bosse? that i wont like anyways...more annoyance put onto the world? more grind rocks? or just actualy destroying every single ocean rock just so wagstaff has room for his own self made trash yard isle?

[Evelo]

21 minutes ago, Echsrick said:

ok, what COULD be made for progressing the "story"? besides bosse? that i wont like anyways...more annoyance put onto the world? more grind rocks? or just actualy destroying every single ocean rock just so wagstaff has room for his own self made trash yard isle?

non-in game stuffs like shorts, or ARGs that we had in the past. Most of the lore came from that after all.

[Waywarbler]

2 hours ago, Evelo said:

non-in game stuffs like shorts, or ARGs that we had in the past. Most of the lore came from that after all.

This is like, the climactic finale to the lunar arc though. It makes sense for the climax to be a big, in-game fight.

[Echsrick]

18 hours ago, Waywarbler said:

This is like, the climactic finale to the lunar arc though. It makes sense for the climax to be a big, in-game fight.

but when all the other things were just big fights then is it realy feeling special?

[Milordo]

On 6/1/2025 at 5:19 AM, Echsrick said:

ok, what COULD be made for progressing the "story"? besides bosse? that i wont like anyways...more annoyance put onto the world? more grind rocks? or just actualy destroying every single ocean rock just so wagstaff has room for his own self made trash yard isle?

Count the stars in the sky. That's how big the human immagination is.

Klei can be creative in a lot of ways, never settle in mediocrity or laziness. They could do more mini-games/puzzles/enigmas like the lunar archives. They could work in more "mental skill" which is non-existant but have been introduced through reap what you sow and it would be very cool to see it expanded in this game. They could put a very limited tough survival challenge and you need to survive tot days to surpass it, since you know....it's goddamm don't starve, it's why we are here and why Adventure mode in Ds was *master chef kiss*. Just to say a few.

[WhackE]

On 5/26/2025 at 3:01 PM, 00petar00 said:

I don't understand, when was this the entire focus for DST? You could make an argument for DS release it was the focus but that was a long time ago and DS in its current state is more sandbox focused. 

Eyebrella literally counters two seasons, star caller/moon caller staff have so many uses that you can literally never have issues with temperatures, trees can be burned to heat thermal stone in winter and you can spend long nights traveling, summer can be avoided by spending the time in caves, deerclops and bearger are never an issue and can easily be killed with any weapon, hound waves are a bit annoying but there's no difficulty there.

I don't need to go over every survival mechanic here but they are very easy to counter and they are designed that way.

How fun is it that you need to get X item to counter X survival mechanic on repeat every so often?

The real "difficulty" is when multiple issues pop up at once and it is true that it can ruin some plans If you aren't prepared but even worst case scenario is usually just going to cost you a life giving amulet that is very cheap to replace, what risk is there? 

Problem with adding survival mechanics that come to player is that there will be too much at some point and we have pretty close to reaching that limit for a survival sandbox game.

DST has been taking this direction for many years now and I don't believe they are about to change course now towards survival focused updates because most players will always be casual and companies exist to make money. It just so happens that I prefer this direction too with a more boss oriented experience because it requires player input as these bosses aren't coming to the player.

yo ho ho... I'm a little late to respond but I wanted to clarify somethings, Maxils post here above you, explained some things pretty well that I whole heartedly agree on.

so to start DST is built off of DS, DST might not be going in a survival direction anymore, but all of the new updates are being made on top of the old system, with all of it's perceived negatives and positives. I know for many years now DST has gone in a different direction, there are things I personally do not like with this direction, I think some of the better things like adding more late game content, side objectives, and seasonal events. is fine, it doesn't really remove anything from surviving. But also Klei has actively been ruining the survival experience and the games original philosophy with a lot of the recent updates, and that is why there are people like me who want more survival content or some return to form.

you're also 100% right about adding too many survival mechanics that come to the player, at some point it would be too much, and I can understand from how I talked about the Great depths worm you maybe thought that was all I wanted, and while I do like that addition, There are more way than periodic threats that come to the player to add more survival content.

Edited June 12, 2025 by WhackE

[EatenCheetos]

I really hope Klei sees this, because they are actively taking the game into a worse direction. A return to form would be great. The game currently stops adding survival threats past day 100, Klei can start there by adding new (fun) things to deal with for years 2-3.  

Uncompromising mode had some good ideas with heavy snow, tornadoes, rat raids, smog, etc. Klei should be adding stuff like that, not the current, completely optional, lazy boss rush attempt that the 99% of players won’t ever do / care about.

[maroonamanita]

I have not read the whole thread, but the last survival challenges they have added have been complained about ever since they were added, the ocean is complained about, the actual newest stuff like the rift hazards are complained about. Klei has been adding new challenges that are survival based, but they are met with um poor results. On the surface the oceans have been criticized to hell and back, but the newest stuff with the rifts either keeps getting nerfed to where its not even an issue or was just not that fun and is hated. 

Lunar rifts add hail (not even a problem just causes lag)  bright shades(annoying), and mutated monsters(not an issue) most notably the glass frog rain. I would also count the lunar storm thing that you have to survive in to kill champion a survival challenge. 
Shadow rifts have the more real threats by virtue of just having a cycle and not using the same ones every time. Big earthquakes, (now we have pillars that keep it from being an issue) acid rain (small equipment change), the ricktus (kinda annoying but I like it, needs some way to pull it out of the shadows easier tho) ickers (the best one) mimi creeps, and the rest are just mobs that dont really follow you like hounds. I will also add great depth worms here and they are hated. 

but more challenges have been added and they are liked a lot less for some reason so bosses are easier

[cybers2001]

I'm sure Klei is very familiar with the challenges of adding non-boss survival progression into existing worlds. We never had DLCs that expanded RoG, SW, or Hamlet, most likely for this reason. Any new addition was instead done as an entirely new world you could later link up to a previous world.

Like in DST, if Klei chose to add a moon world you can survive in, that would be cool. But how would that work in a multiplayer setting? Would everyone just start on the moon? Would you travel to the moon at some point, but find yourself trapped there until you complete the challenges and build a portal to take you back? How would that resolve seasonal changes that occur while you're offline and your friends are still back on the surface playing? How do you prevent some characters (ie. Wanda) from just shard-hopping their way out of the challenge back to the surface?