Characters downsides I think could be more impactful

[Johnny_Waffles]

(This is my opinion and will DEFINITLEY be different from person to person so please no toxicity i just wanna show my opinion and see what others think about the topic)

They're are a couple charaters downsides i personally think are almost non existent and i wish they could possibly be more impactful. Those characters being

-Willow: her downside of being slightly more affected by Winter is barely effectful since with a thermal stone and any source of fire (which is super accessible with Willow) its not dangerous at all.

-WX-78: Their downside of being damaged by water barely does anything since the damage is super low unless you're above 50 wetness and other than that it only removes his upside (which imo doesn't count as a downside if all it does is remove an upside).

-Woodie: His only downside is that you sometimes transform into his upside (and with perks it doesn't even do that). 

-Winona: Her only downside is below 50 hunger you craft slower (which she crafts faster above it so ???)

-Wurt: this one many people will probaly disagree with and could have great points against it, but imo wurts downside of being a vegitarian is pretty much nonexistent once you go to lunar island and get stone fruit and kelp. Plus she gains extra hunger from them.

They're are a few more charaters but those ones could have many points against them (Wolf, Wanda, wicker etc.) but the ones above are the main ones imo. So if anyone agrees or disagrees pls respond with your opinions. Once again THIS IS MY OPINION AND WILL MOST DEFINITLEY BE DIFFERENT WITH OTHER PEOPLE. so please don't make this a Post filled with pointless arguments.

If anyone have any good ideas for more impactful downsides write your ideas below

[Cheggf]

Most character's downsides are negligible. Some characters like Willow have downsides so small most people genuinely don't even know what they are. Some characters like Wigfrid have very easily worked around downsides. Really it's just Wormwood, Warly, Wes, Wolfgang, and maybe Walter who have substantial downsides, but even they're not that hard. I don't think Klei's ever wanted characters to have big downsides, even though I think downsides tend to usually be just as fun if not more fun than upsides.

[Maxil20]

25 minutes ago, Johnny_Waffles said:

and other than that it only removes his upside (which imo doesn't count as a downside if all it does is remove an upside).

I would say it is a pretty harsh downside, since losing your circuits turns you into a strictly worse Wilson statwise while still constantly taking DoT from the wetness, which is activated at a pretty low point of 15. Its even more detrimental if some of the said circuits are keeping you alive. I would say its pretty decent, all things considered.

25 minutes ago, Johnny_Waffles said:

Winona: Her only downside is below 50 hunger you craft slower (which she crafts faster above it so ???)

Winona also possesses the innate downside of losing 5 hunger if you haven’t crafted anything in the last minute or within a close proximity of where you last crafted at. It’s not huge, but the extra hunger drops here and there do progressively add up. Her slow crafting also applies to dismantling machines and the like, which most Winona players are likely going to be using quite heavily.

I will disclaim don’t think every character needs to have downsides that need planning to go around, and I think most of these characters are fine having “lighter” downsides compared to significant ones like Wormwood’s. They still have things that are detrimental, but can usually be maintained without too much trouble, and I think that’s alright.

[FillerText]

Most people dismiss Wolfgang's sanity penalty, but I do honestly think it roughly balances things out because people in my opinion overvalue damage multipliers in comparison to other things.

I'd come as far as to say it's a lot easier to do ruins rushes as Wormwood compared to Wolfgang because of: Ability to control sanity, and AoE destroying splumonkeys. Muddy Biome providing you with more than enough lightbulbs to use for light and compost wraps. His efficiency at farming spiders for Salves, and such during prep. Easy Living logs. Then just being generally faster at walking. Few of these are benefits most chars can use, and a lot of it was something he had even in singleplayer. Wolfgang just hits hard, and it's pretty much it. He's kinda fine as is.

[WilsonHiggs]

8 minutes ago, FillerText said:

Most people dismiss Wolfgang's sanity penalty, but I do honestly think it roughly balances things out because people in my opinion overvalue damage multipliers in comparison to other things.

...but you kill shadows super fast 

9 minutes ago, FillerText said:

I'd come as far as to say it's a lot easier to do ruins rushes as Wormwood compared to Wolfgang because of: Ability to control sanity, and AoE destroying splumonkeys. Muddy Biome providing you with more than enough lightbulbs to use for light and compost wraps. His efficiency at farming spiders for Salves, and such during prep

Wolfg can one shot all of that with fresh hambat and heal with blue caps

[Evelo]

Downsides make the game SO much more fun for me. Wicker spawning additional shadow creatures when she reads books while at low sanity is a great downside and I like it a lot. Not that she had any other downside. But it is something.

[hyoton123]

Willow: her disadvantage (also advantage) is her sanity fluctuations and low max sanity.

 

wx: bad base stats, takes a while to get going (i’m calling wx specifically out here)…and no one wants to be wet, but they especially suffer for it

 

woodie: has to jump through hoops to eat monster meat, treeguard spawning (which can be a perk but is a little disruptive). probably could have more impactful flaws but i dont think he needs it

 

winona; trading hunger for faster crafting can be a double edged sword. slower crafting is pretty annoying.

 

wurt: it isnt just hunger, she loses out on a lot of meat utility. Not killer, but it’s an inconvenience.

 

i think most of these flaws strike a good balance between flavor and playability. 

[Radicaljoe]

2 hours ago, Johnny_Waffles said:

-78: Their downside of being damaged by water barely does anything since the damage is super low

I will say, drowning as WX is nearly a guaranteed death, your circuits all go out so quickly and you take so much damage, but I'd say the main downside is the downside of choice. All of your stats are pretty mediocre as WX and you have the option to change them obviously, but then you're just Wilson with big stats.

I think that the main downside of playing a character is that you aren't playing a different character. Like, while playing Wormwood you have tons of food, but you won't benefit from the food as much as other characters would. 

It's the same thing that makes pre tree Winona and current Warly pretty bad. You could have all of their character perks and skip all of their downsides by playing as a different character.

[Wawchik]

Wortox kinda just doesn't have a downside now because soul jars give you more than enough hunger and healing than you will ever need

Old wortox sucked for me because you couldn't really use souls to teleport if you wanted to not eat mortal food at all, but now he's pretty much immortal if you set up a soul farm or base near bees 

[Mike23Ua]

1 hour ago, Evelo said:

Downsides make the game SO much more fun for me. Wicker spawning additional shadow creatures when she reads books while at low sanity is a great downside and I like it a lot. Not that she had any other downside. But it is something.

Yeah I’m gonna uhh, I’m gonna play devils advocate on this one. Sure the Downside would be pretty cool IF and ONLY IF DST were a Single Player Game, The reason I say this is most the time (in my experience with multiplayer in the game anyway) players who are not insane and have no reason to ever be chased by shadow creatures will want to “help” so now THEY even though they’re not insane, are now being chased and tormented by your personal shadow creatures.

After that: I can understand why Klei adds a bunch of silly extremely gimmicky ways to restore sanity, such as for example: Walter just wearing funny pinetree hat and standing near 3-4 pine trees, and if that’s not enough annoying campfire stories (really wish I could mute his voice for this Klei!) 

But I do wish characters like Wendy retained their single player DS downsides of Abigail being on “cooldown”

[Cheggf]

1 hour ago, Radicaljoe said:

It's the same thing that makes pre tree Winona and current Warly pretty bad. You could have all of their character perks and skip all of their downsides by playing as a different character.

This is true of literally every single character in the entire game. You guys are always complaining about the Celestial Portal while pretending like you're complaining about characters.

[GenomeSquirrel]

The problem with downsides being a problem is that, like brushing your teeth, you get so comfortable solving problems before they occur, that the downside may never actually manifest, and from darkness, to rain, to hounds, and deerclops the game trains us to prepare in advance.
 

 

[Balter]

Walter’s downside isn’t critical enough, Klei should double the sanity drain from receiving damage when he isn’t wearing the Pinehat. This will make the Pinehat a crucial crutch and only then can I be happy when playing him.

[Evelo]

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

Yeah I’m gonna uhh, I’m gonna play devils advocate on this one. Sure the Downside would be pretty cool IF and ONLY IF DST were a Single Player Game, The reason I say this is most the time (in my experience with multiplayer in the game anyway) players who are not insane and have no reason to ever be chased by shadow creatures will want to “help” so now THEY even though they’re not insane, are now being chased and tormented by your personal shadow creatures.

Yeah... that's true. I wish it wasn't because I play this game Singleplayer 99% of the time. Blegh...

[Radicaljoe]

30 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

This is true of literally every single character in the entire game. You guys are always complaining about the Celestial Portal while pretending like you're complaining about characters.

Literally not a portal issue it's a character issue. Example, Wilson was turned into a swap character because he was given useful crafts but nothing really new in terms of play style. 

Willow can craft Bernie's for other players, but no one can use them as good as Willow. Wigfrid can make helmets and lightning spears, don't see anybody swapping for those items. Wormwood can craft bramblehusks for everyone which are useful for cactus and stuff like bq, I see a lot of wormwood players even after making a couple husks.

Winona can still be considered a swap character, but now she has personal items and more interesting gameplay like the ones listed above which softly pulled her out of swap character status. 

You may notice a trend about the characters that share their items. 1 they use it better themselves. 2 they HAVE interesting gameplay outside of those items. Pre tree Winona had nothing except faster crafting or annoyingly slow crafting before the tree after you built 1-2 catapult areas, Post tree Wilson has his gem refines and rift material crafts but nothing new except the bears storage and torch toss(too op pls nerd), and Warly still has nothing personal after the player obtains a bundle wrap blueprint except a large stomach.

There's an argument to be made that some people will play them for their personality, which is fair, I like Warly for his personality. But his gameplay is so bland it doesn't feel worthwhile playing him just to hear his cool voice or see quotes.

But, like I said at the beginning, not an issue of the portal, it lets us view the flaws of a character without forcing players to learn the hard way that the character they chose is not their style of play and now they're stuck as that character forever until the next world they start.

[Swiyss]

5 hours ago, Johnny_Waffles said:

Willow: her downside of being slightly more affected by Winter is barely effectful since with a thermal stone and any source of fire (which is super accessible with Willow) its not dangerous at all.

Willow should definitely get some downside when wet, like not being able to cast spells if she's above 30 wetness or 50.

5 hours ago, Johnny_Waffles said:

WX-78: Their downside of being damaged by water barely does anything since the damage is super low unless you're above 50 wetness and other than that it only removes his upside (which imo doesn't count as a downside if all it does is remove an upside).

I disagree completely. As a wx player, I have to say that his downsides are pretty great. If he gets frozen he loses energy, if wetness is above 15 he takes a LOT of damage (it's not low like you said it).

However, if I could add another downside to him, it would be to make it so he gets more naughty points since he's soulless, like Krampus is seeing that he's more evil than normal. 

Another downside idea is to make it so certain mobs passive positive auras are less effective on him.

5 hours ago, Johnny_Waffles said:

Winona: Her only downside is below 50 hunger you craft slower (which she crafts faster above it so ???)

this downside is pretty heavy actually. If you're being chased and forgot to eat and try to craft like a torch or a weapon, it snowballs pretty hard.

5 hours ago, Johnny_Waffles said:

Wurt: this one many people will probaly disagree with and could have great points against it, but imo wurts downside of being a vegitarian is pretty much nonexistent once you go to lunar island and get stone fruit and kelp. Plus she gains extra hunger from them.

The extra hunger is one of her coolest perks, so maybe they should add so that carrying meat lowers her sanity by a lot.

[Johnny_Waffles]

5 hours ago, Maxil20 said:

I would say it is a pretty harsh downside, since losing your circuits turns you into a strictly worse Wilson statwise while still constantly taking DoT from the wetness, which is activated at a pretty low point of 15. Its even more detrimental if some of the said circuits are keeping you alive. I would say its pretty decent, all things considered.

Yea I agree the reading some other posts the water DMG is pretty dangerous in certain situations but the circuit downside, whilst making sense and Is good for the character, I personally don't like characters downside being no more upside. Not saying get rid of it, just maybe a lil more like a slight slow down after a certain amount of wetness or even it being a lil harder to dry off.

Edit: Or like @astareus said, more naughtiness and less sanity gain from passive mobs so their downside isn't just wetness

[Cheggf]

8 minutes ago, Radicaljoe said:

Willow can craft Bernie's for other players, but no one can use them as good as Willow.

And there's "no reason to play as her at all" because other characters do everything she does better.

8 minutes ago, Radicaljoe said:

Wigfrid can make helmets and lightning spears, don't see anybody swapping for those items.

You don't see anybody swapping for anything. This is purely a theoretical thing you guys are upset about.

8 minutes ago, Radicaljoe said:

But, like I said at the beginning, not an issue of the portal

It literally is. You're upset that you get to reap the benefits characters offer without needing to play as that character. If the portal weren't in the game you wouldn't be able to do that. But because the portal is in the game literally every single character, according to your weird theoretical mindset, is either a swap character, a useless character that you should never play as because it isn't super tryhardy, or one of 3 characters who you'd stick with. Using the line of thought of "I only want to get the maximum benefits of every character and I don't care that I'm putting in way more time & effort constantly abusing the portal to feel like I'm benefitting" Maxwell, Wortox, and maybe Wurt are the only characters in the entire game that "make sense" to stick as. 

Wilson is a "swap character" because he makes that gem. Willow is a "nothing character" because she doesn't do anything the best. Wolfgang is a "swap character" because he's only helpful when you're fighting. Wendy is a "swap character" because she's only helpful when you're fighting groups of enemies. WX is a "nothing character" because he doesn't do anything the best. Wickerbottom is a "swap character" because all her books offer their benefits without needing to be constantly read. Woodie is a "nothing character" because he doesn't do anything the best. Wes is a "nothing character" because he doesn't do anything the best. Wigfrid is a "swap character" because she can make a bunch of gear, and the rest of her kit is only useful while you're fighting. Webber is a "nothing character" because he doesn't do anything the best. Winona is a "swap character" because she makes things that don't require her to be there. Warly is a "swap character" because he makes things that don't require him to be there. Wormwood is a "swap character" because he makes things that don't require him to be there. Walter is a "nothing character" because he doesn't do anything the best. Wanda is a "nothing character" because she doesn't do anything the best.

[Swiyss]

1 minute ago, Cheggf said:

And there's "no reason to play as her at all" because other characters do everything she does better

She's number 2 in ruins rush, only behind wx. She's the best AoE in the game and also have such an easy time on afw fight because bernie takes care of nightmares completely. Not only that but bernie will aggro literally everything in the game except bosses.

[Cheggf]

1 minute ago, astareus said:

She's number 2 in ruins rush, only behind wx. She's the best AoE in the game and also have such an easy time on afw fight because bernie takes care of nightmares completely. Not only that but bernie will aggro literally everything in the game except bosses.

So swap her & Wendy where she's the AoE character and Wendy is the nothing character. It changes nothing of what I said. 

[Johnny_Waffles]

12 minutes ago, astareus said:

The extra hunger is one of her coolest perks, so maybe they should add so that carrying meat lowers her sanity by a lot.

I agree it is a very cool upside, it's just with how easy kelp is to get it really just makes food for wurt stupid easy to get. Maybe make it so for crockpot foods, it also buffs the other stats so your not just using kelp 24/7

[Swiyss]

3 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

So swap her & Wendy where she's the AoE character and Wendy is the nothing character. It changes nothing of what I said. 

you said willow does nothing better.

Bernie has more health and defense then abigail and even heals. Lunar flare does more dps, has a larger area and has planar in it without needing to sacrifice butterflies for it, it's a day 1 thing.

She's better than wendy in everything, you just gotta know how to play her.

Also, Wendy's sanity buff against scary things is equally negligible compared to Willow's 1.1x multipliers.  

@Cheggf I'm not talking about the portal. 

Yes she is a "nothing character" and other players can't benefit that much from the lighter or bernie, but that's not what I tried to say. I'm saying that she is stronger than you might think on her own that she doesn't need to swap ever, maybe only for Warly dishes since they're super good.

[Johnny_Waffles]

5 hours ago, Maxil20 said:

Winona also possesses the innate downside of losing 5 hunger if you haven’t crafted anything in the last minute or within a close proximity of where you last crafted at. It’s not huge, but the extra hunger drops here and there do progressively add up. Her slow crafting also applies to dismantling machines and the like, which most Winona players are likely going to be using quite heavily.

Also reading a couple other posts this is a pretty annoying downside when it happens. I just don't like the whole reason of it being there is because she crafts faster and loses hunger so she must craft slower once she loses enough hunger.

Woodie does need a downside (him being one of my mains) he has never really had a downside post rework since his downside of no hunger after untransforming is tied to his upside and is only not chosen once a full moon happens. And now after his skilltree they don't really affect him at all if you choose them. (I do love his skilltree though I not trashing on it or anything). Now his only downside now is a 1% more likely chance to spawn tree guards which isn't really a downside and if you don't want them plant the sapling or use beaver to not summon them at all.

[Radicaljoe]

33 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

And there's "no reason to play as her at all" because other characters do everything she does better.

Nope, because she can do special things others can't, didn't you read it?

33 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

You don't see anybody swapping for anything

As I said, Warly and pre tree Winona, and Wilson post rift 

33 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

It literally is. You're upset that you get to reap the benefits characters offer without needing to play as that character

I'm upset the benefits of a character are all a character has but those benefits are entirely shareable and said character doesn't use the item better. (This specifically applies to Wilson and Warly as of now, everyone else is fine)

I feel like you are being intentional obtuse about character perks by labeling all of them as swap or nothing because of 1 aspect. Instead of the character as a whole.

[Cheggf]

17 minutes ago, Radicaljoe said:

Nope, because she can do special things others can't, didn't you read it?

As I said, Warly and pre tree Winona, and Wilson post rift 

I'm upset the benefits of a character are all a character has but those benefits are entirely shareable and said character doesn't use the item better. (This specifically applies to Wilson and Warly as of now, everyone else is fine)

I feel like you are being intentional obtuse about character perks by labeling all of them as swap or nothing because of 1 aspect. Instead of the character as a whole.

Is your issue that you don't like when there's teamwork in a multiplayer game, or is your issue that you think certain characters are boring and you keep randomly talking about how they're swap characters instead of how they're boring to try to confuse people?