Characters downsides I think could be more impactful

[Radicaljoe]

4 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

Is your issue that you don't like when there's teamwork in a multiplayer game, or is your issue that you think certain characters are boring and you keep randomly talking about how they're swap characters instead of how they're boring to try to confuse people?

No I love teamwork, but the issue still arises in a team setting. 

If you like to play Warly and don't feel like you become obsolete after giving everyone your kit via bundles then this wouldn't apply to you because you're having fun, which is good. Fun is the objective.

However I imagine a lot of people would see Warlys food and go "that would be used better by X character, I'd like a Warly to make me one of those and I be that X character"

Warly objectively has little to nothing outside of his dishes in terms of character progression. It's the same issue people have with Maxwell reading Wicker books where once you have enough books, you don't need Wicker anymore and can play a character that uses her kit far better than she ever could hope to. Warly gets stronger using his foods, but everyone else can use it way better than he ever could (minor exceptions like Wilson or Wes)

[Keller Max]

Reading all of this made me realize how hard Warly fell, compared to other characters, especially those who got a skill tree...

[Cheggf]

56 minutes ago, Radicaljoe said:

No I love teamwork, but the issue still arises in a team setting. 

If you like to play Warly and don't feel like you become obsolete after giving everyone your kit via bundles then this wouldn't apply to you because you're having fun, which is good. Fun is the objective.

However I imagine a lot of people would see Warlys food and go "that would be used better by X character, I'd like a Warly to make me one of those and I be that X character"

Warly objectively has little to nothing outside of his dishes in terms of character progression. It's the same issue people have with Maxwell reading Wicker books where once you have enough books, you don't need Wicker anymore and can play a character that uses her kit far better than she ever could hope to. Warly gets stronger using his foods, but everyone else can use it way better than he ever could (minor exceptions like Wilson or Wes)

Literally every character is like this. I have no idea how anyone could go "Man I could be doing so much more damage if I spent a few seasons farming and making goat traps so that I could switch to Warly and create some delectable dishes and then waited for it to start raining" but not go "Man I could be doing so much more damage if I went Wolfgang and that's it". Every character has little to nothing outside of one or two things they excel at, unless they excel at nothing and are just decent at a lot of things. 

[Radicaljoe]

4 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

Literally every character is like this. I have no idea how anyone could go "Man I could be doing so much more damage if I spent a few seasons farming and making goat traps so that I could switch to Warly and create some delectable dishes and then waited for it to start raining" but not go "Man I could be doing so much more damage if I went Wolfgang and that's it". Every character has little to nothing outside of one or two things they excel at, unless they excel at nothing and are just decent at a lot of things. 

But that's the catch, they HAVE those 1-2 things they excel at or are generally well-rounded.

And at the same time, other characters can't be Wolfgang. Wolfgang has that 2x damage as his excel thing. No one else can borrow his mighty meter or dumbells. Every character can be Warly with 1 bundle wrap because he has nothing outside of the dishes he makes. 

The thing is everyone else is better at using Warly's upsides than Warly himself, even collecting the items for the dishes can be easier as other characters. 
Warly is no different than Wilson eating the dishes, he has no special syndergies with them. But other characters do.

[Cheggf]

10 minutes ago, Radicaljoe said:

But that's the catch, they HAVE those 1-2 things they excel at or are generally well-rounded.

And at the same time, other characters can't be Wolfgang. Wolfgang has that 2x damage as his excel thing. No one else can borrow his mighty meter or dumbells. Every character can be Warly with 1 bundle wrap because he has nothing outside of the dishes he makes. 

The thing is everyone else is better at using Warly's upsides than Warly himself, even collecting the items for the dishes can be easier as other characters. 
Warly is no different than Wilson eating the dishes, he has no special syndergies with them. But other characters do.

There is no difference between swapping to Warly, making a dish, then swapping off Warly or swapping to Wolfgang, fighting a boss, then swapping off Wolfgang. Other than, of course, swapping to Wolfgang is something that actually makes sense for you to do and is done 100,000x more often than swapping to Warly is done.

Why are you fine with swapping to someone for 5 minutes to fight a boss but not fine with swapping to someone for 5 minutes to cook a bunch of dishes? It's the same thing. You aren't actually playing as that character, you're just briefly becoming them to benefit from their strength. 

[Radicaljoe]

9 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

There is no difference between swapping to Warly, making a dish, then swapping off Warly or swapping to Wolfgang, fighting a boss, then swapping off Wolfgang. Other than, of course, swapping to Wolfgang is something that actually makes sense for you to do and is done 100,000x more often than swapping to Warly is done.

Why are you fine with swapping to someone for 5 minutes to fight a boss but not fine with swapping to someone for 5 minutes to cook a bunch of dishes? It's the same thing. You aren't actually playing as that character, you're just briefly becoming them to benefit from their strength. 

Okay let me try to simplify this

Wolfgang-> character perks isolated to Wolfgang, Wendy can't be Wolfgang and Wendy at same time

Warly-> character perks not isolated, Wendy can be Wendy and Warly at same time

Doing it your way you need to swap to Wolfgang every boss fight. Warly you only need to swap once or twice depending on how much food you cooked.

[00petar00]

Have you ever thought that maybe players don't like downsides?

9 hours ago, Johnny_Waffles said:

-WX-78: Their downside of being damaged by water barely does anything since the damage is super low unless you're above 50 wetness and other than that it only removes his upside (which imo doesn't count as a downside if all it does is remove an upside).

-Woodie: His only downside is that you sometimes transform into his upside (and with perks it doesn't even do that). 

-Winona: Her only downside is below 50 hunger you craft slower (which she crafts faster above it so ???)

-Wurt: this one many people will probaly disagree with and could have great points against it, but imo wurts downside of being a vegitarian is pretty much nonexistent once you go to lunar island and get stone fruit and kelp. Plus she gains extra hunger from them.

The main ones I want to talk about are in the quote.

WX-78, Most characters don't have downsides that impact their specific abilities so this is a very impactful downside compared to most of the cast.

Woodie, I don't play this character but you don't always want to transform and storms are a negative to you while every other character would prefer to have storms on compared to taking damage in the dark.

Winona, players aren't that experienced and a lot of them don't benefit from this so it is a downside as you need to eat more food.

Wurt, If you have to do something to counter a downside does it not exist? I can play another character that can eat meat and I don't have to go to focus on lunar island when I spawn in.

[Cheggf]

48 minutes ago, Radicaljoe said:

Okay let me try to simplify this

Wolfgang-> character perks isolated to Wolfgang, Wendy can't be Wolfgang and Wendy at same time

Warly-> character perks not isolated, Wendy can be Wendy and Warly at same time

Doing it your way you need to swap to Wolfgang every boss fight. Warly you only need to swap once or twice depending on how much food you cooked.

You fundamentally do not understand what I'm saying, this conversation is pointless.

[Radicaljoe]

4 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

You fundamentally do not understand what I'm saying, this conversation is pointless.

And you don't understand what I am saying, at least we can agree we do not understand each other.

[Swiyss]

1 hour ago, Cheggf said:

You fundamentally do not understand what I'm saying, this conversation is pointless.

1 hour ago, Radicaljoe said:

And you don't understand what I am saying, at least we can agree we do not understand each other.

that's what a 190 IQ conversation looks like

[WilsonHiggs]

2 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

Have you ever thought that maybe players don't like downsides?

Maybe they are playing the wrong game then

Is much more interesting to have downsides which can change how players approach certain scenarios than having a bunch of "Wilson but with [...]" That only means that you can play the same as other characters but you might take advantage of a pero to make a short cut

Even a weak downside as wx's already makes decide how to i approach spring fights and ocean content making some unused items like rain coat more interesting 

How warly's food downside makes you prepare different sanity foods and consider other healing sources than blue caps and pierogies

Another example is how interesting would be Wanda's downside if wasn't because her upsides ruins them

Etcetera etcetera 

[BattleOzze]

So, now Klei should rework every character to make their downsides more "exciting"? I thought people were done with char updates, but hey, apparently we want more...

[00petar00]

1 hour ago, WilsonHiggs said:

Maybe they are playing the wrong game then

Is much more interesting to have downsides which can change how players approach certain scenarios than having a bunch of "Wilson but with [...]" That only means that you can play the same as other characters but you might take advantage of a pero to make a short cut

Even a weak downside as wx's already makes decide how to i approach spring fights and ocean content making some unused items like rain coat more interesting 

How warly's food downside makes you prepare different sanity foods and consider other healing sources than blue caps and pierogies

Another example is how interesting would be Wanda's downside if wasn't because her upsides ruins them

Etcetera etcetera 

Maybe you are playing the wrong game since DST has been going in casual direction for a while now.

I don't like downsides because they turn me away from even wanting to play a character If they can't be countered.

Warly's downside is terrible and it never becomes counterable besides doing math with meaty stew to avoid it and that's what downsides in general are, something players want to avoid so they use items that let them negate it like playing WX and carrying eyebrella/umbralla all the time or Wormwood using jelly beans to heal and farming BQ as often as you need to supply yourself with healing.

[Hungry French]

14 hours ago, Johnny_Waffles said:

(Это моё мнение, и оно определённо будет отличаться от мнения других людей, поэтому, пожалуйста, не обижайтесь, я просто хочу высказать своё мнение и узнать, что другие думают по этому поводу)

Есть пара недостатков персонажей, которые, на мой взгляд, почти не влияют на игру, и я бы хотел, чтобы они были более значимыми. Эти персонажи

- Уиллоу: её недостаток в том, что она чуть сильнее страдает от Зимы, но это едва ли заметно, поскольку с тепловым камнем и любым источником огня (который очень доступен для Уиллоу) это совсем не опасно.

-WX-78: Их недостаток, заключающийся в том, что они повреждаются водой, почти ничего не значит, так как урон очень низкий, если только вы не находитесь в воде больше 50 секунд, а в остальном это только лишает их преимущества (которое, на мой взгляд, не считается недостатком, если всё, что оно делает, — это лишает вас преимущества).

- Вуди: единственный недостаток этого персонажа в том, что вы иногда превращаетесь в его достоинство (а с бонусами это происходит ещё чаще).

- Вайнона: её единственный недостаток в том, что при уровне голода ниже 50 она крафтит медленнее (а при уровне выше 50 она крафтит быстрее, так что ???)

-Вурт: с этим многие люди, вероятно, не согласятся и могут привести веские аргументы против, но, по-моему, недостатков вегетарианства у Вурта практически не существует, если вы отправитесь на лунный остров и будете есть косточковые фрукты и ламинарию. К тому же она получает от них дополнительный голод.

Это еще несколько персонажей, но у них может быть много очков против них (Wolf, Wanda, wicker и т.д.), Но те, что выше, являются основными, imo. Поэтому, если кто-то согласен или не согласен, пожалуйста, выскажите свое мнение. Еще раз повторяю, ЭТО МОЕ МНЕНИЕ, И У ДРУГИХ ЛЮДЕЙ ОНО ОПРЕДЕЛЕННО БУДЕТ ИНЫМ. поэтому, пожалуйста, не делайте этот пост наполненным бессмысленными аргументами.

Если у кого-то есть хорошие идеи для более серьёзных недостатков, напишите свои идеи ниже

The characters need to weaken their advantages. Because no matter how much you enhance the flaws, it can't compare to how much their objects and features give the characters. Half of the problems are in the skill tree and the rest in the rework

[Edible Coal]

15 hours ago, Johnny_Waffles said:

 

-Willow: her downside of being slightly more affected by Winter is barely effectful since with a thermal stone and any source of fire (which is super accessible with Willow) its not dangerous at all.

 

i got one

Willow now start freezing when below 15 degree

15 hours ago, Johnny_Waffles said:

 

-Woodie: His only downside is that you sometimes transform into his upside (and with perks it doesn't even do that). 

 

eveytime he uses idiol makes him 30 hunger, which is a pretty big downside imo

[cropo]

11 hours ago, astareus said:

Willow should definitely get some downside when wet, like not being able to cast spells if she's above 30 wetness or 50.

Willow does have a downside when wet, but Thermal Stones completely trivialize the temperature system. This isn't a Willow problem, it's a thermal stone problem, the same way Wigfrid keeps being given exceptions to her meat-based diet through certain items.

If you're caught unaware in the rain with Willow, with cold building up in the caves, you're going to die in a manner of seconds and your sanity is going to shoot straight to rock-bottom which is going to spawn a terror beak which is going to occupy Bernie and you're going to have to wear an umbrella of some sort to stop refreezing if you leave a heatsource which makes you have to put some armor on in case the nightmares have a pathing oopsie and try to attack Willow which sometimes happens even while Bernie taunts.

If you want to give Willow a true disadvantage, make Thermal Stones unable to work on her and people will learn how quickly her insulation penalty can end up causing a big chunk of health and sanity damage if you forget about it for even a second. Thermal Stones have ruined the temperature mechanic in this game, anyone clamoring for "more survival mechanics" should not be defending thermal stones.

[Keller Max]

4 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

Maybe you are playing the wrong game since DST has been going in casual direction for a while now.

I don't like downsides because they turn me away from even wanting to play a character If they can't be countered.

Warly's downside is terrible and it never becomes counterable besides doing math with meaty stew to avoid it and that's what downsides in general are, something players want to avoid so they use items that let them negate it like playing WX and carrying eyebrella/umbralla all the time or Wormwood using jelly beans to heal and farming BQ as often as you need to supply yourself with healing.

Klei wanted to make Warly's downside an interesting mechanic, but it flopped hard. Why should I bother cooking 20 different average hunger dishes if I can just spam Meaty Stews? They should rework his hunger where it will be more rewarding to cook variety of dishes rather than the biggest dishes. I want to benefit from Wet Goop!

[WilsonHiggs]

4 minutes ago, Keller Max said:

Klei wanted to make Warly's downside an interesting mechanic, but it flopped hard. Why should I bother cooking 20 different average hunger dishes if I can just spam Meaty Stews? They should rework his hunger where it will be more rewarding to cook variety of dishes rather than the biggest dishes. I want to benefit from Wet Goop!

It only works bad with hunger but I like how it works for sanity and healing but i wish it was more impactful because you don't notice a big difference between eating 1 pierogi or 3

[Johnny_Waffles]

On 4/22/2025 at 10:13 AM, Keller Max said:

Klei wanted to make Warly's downside an interesting mechanic, but it flopped hard. Why should I bother cooking 20 different average hunger dishes if I can just spam Meaty Stews? They should rework his hunger where it will be more rewarding to cook variety of dishes rather than the biggest dishes. I want to benefit from Wet Goop!

Warly should gain bonus stats the first time he eats a dish then has to wait the 2 day cooldown for that dish to benefit from it again. They could also make it so the lower the stats the dish has the greater the bonus (but that might be to confusing because how many dishes there are)

[Bumber64]

13 hours ago, Cheggf said:

I have no idea how anyone could go "Man I could be doing so much more damage if I spent a few seasons farming and making goat traps so that I could switch to Warly and create some delectable dishes and then waited for it to start raining" but not go "Man I could be doing so much more damage if I went Wolfgang and that's it".

Except they stack on top of Wolfgang's mult. (Plus Wolfgang gets a bunch of passive strength related abilities.) And work with Wanda, Wigfrid, Wendy, Wilson, et al., for what they offer.

Warly's kit consists only of foods that everyone else can use, and uses most of them worse due to 2 of his 3 downsides. It's like if Wormwood's only upside was farming, but he still lost health from durians and other bad food. (No, he still can't recover health from food. Gotta have a downside besides tree chopping and flammability, you know.)

4 hours ago, cropo said:

If you want to give Willow a true disadvantage, make Thermal Stones unable to work on her and people will learn how quickly her insulation penalty can end up causing a big chunk of health and sanity damage if you forget about it for even a second.

Lighter? Fireball? If you're not using a thermal, you'd be wearing clothes.

[Keller Max]

5 minutes ago, Johnny_Waffles said:

Warly should gain bonus stats the first time he eats a dish then has to wait the 2 day cooldown for that dish to benefit from it again. They could also make it so the lower the stats the fish has the greater the bonus (but that might be toi confusing because how many dishes there are)

There is my not so old hunger rework Idea for Warly 

 

[FillerText]

45 minutes ago, Johnny_Waffles said:

Warly should gain bonus stats the first time he eats a dish then has to wait the 2 day cooldown for that dish to benefit from it again. They could also make it so the lower the stats the fish has the greater the bonus (but that might be toi confusing because how many dishes there are)

That's how he worked in Don't Starve Shipwrecked. 

[Johnny_Waffles]

3 minutes ago, FillerText said:

That's how he worked in Don't Starve Shipwrecked. 

Oh i didn't know that since I never play him in solo DS. Then there's no reason they shouldn't add it. (if they do add it they'll hopefully add it to his base kit when his skilltree comes out like they did for Walter)

[Wawchik]

9 hours ago, Edible Coal said:

eveytime he uses idiol makes him 30 hunger, which is a pretty big downside imo

Not really, it's only a bit annoying very early game, I'd say sanity loss during transformations is a bigger downside 

[cropo]

10 hours ago, Bumber64 said:

Lighter? Fireball? If you're not using a thermal, you'd be wearing clothes.

A stationary heatsource and one that requires the destruction of nearby environment and the second you leave its range you're back to where you started. And yes, you'd be wearing clothes. You would be required to make more choices on what you wear to survive in the environment, instead of having it safely in an inventory slot. A character only has limited equip slots compared to inventory slots, so if Willow needed to stay warm she would have to sacrifice her body or headslot to get warmth which means less armor, less rain protection and rain protection is mandatory on Willow because her already short warmth time is cut to an abysmally low time such that you can't really leave a heat source for more than a couple of seconds without immediately going back down to freezing.


Try playing Willow around an Ice Crystaleyezer, just do a challenge run and cheat one into your base and try to literally do stuff around your base without the protection of a thermal stone. 

If thermal stones didn't exist, the survival elements of the game would be more pronounced and Willow would actually suffer from a serious disadvantage. Wilson would actually be a really good starter character without thermal stones because his beard would be given far more value for being a equip-free source of insulation.