Wendy is the same but a little stronger

[YouKnowWho142]

I understand being disappointed by the skill tree. However, Wendy was one of the most popular and arguably one of the stronger characters already (especially for beginners), but people are treating her as a horrible character now because they are dissatisfied with the skill tree. They did not touch or nerf her basekit at all, so she's basically the same character as before but better. Even if the skill tree is not up to people's standards, what is the issue here? Why is she suddenly unplayable when she's only gotten stronger? People will still like her for the same reasons, only that she will be better at them. It is not a reason to drop Wendy, and I'm genuinely confused where this idea is coming from

[Yaorin yon]

Because many of the skill trees are designed very well, but Wendy’s skill tree is designed very carelessly. If you have experienced other skill trees (as long as it’s not Wilson or Wigford), you can easily feel how unreasonable Wendy’s skill tree is. These issues have been politely suggested hundreds of times in the past, but the developers ignored them and insisted on going in the opposite direction. So, in the end, the result is that people are no longer making polite suggestions. It’s as simple as that.

[Debruh]

They're overreacting out of entitlement. Thinking that whatever made up skill tree they thought was gonna happen is owed for some reason.

Just now, Yaorin yon said:

Because many of the skill trees are designed very well, but Wendy’s skill tree is designed very carelessly. If you have experienced other skill trees (as long as it’s not Wilson or Wigford), you can easily feel how unreasonable Wendy’s skill tree is. These issues have been politely suggested hundreds of times in the past, but the developers ignored them and insisted on going in the opposite direction. So, in the end, the result is that people are no longer making polite suggestions. It’s as simple as that.

'People don't like the skill tree, so they're starting to insult the devs and threaten them. It is perfectly reasonable' is basically what this is saying

Broski what??

[YouKnowWho142]

1 minute ago, Yaorin yon said:

Because many of the skill trees are designed very well, but Wendy’s skill tree is designed very carelessly. If you have experienced other skill trees (as long as it’s not Wilson or Wigford), you can easily feel how unreasonable Wendy’s skill tree is. These issues have been politely suggested hundreds of times in the past, but the developers ignored them and insisted on going in the opposite direction. So, in the end, the result is that people are no longer making polite suggestions. It’s as simple as that.

you're frankly ridiculous man, and that isn't my point. Regardless of how you feel about the skill tree Wendy was always one of the most popular characters, and the skill tree doesn't make any negative changes to her character. You can play her the exact same, and if you choose to interact with her skill tree she just becomes better. The fact that she has a skill tree or just the fact that it's not perceived to be as good as other skill trees doesn't change the fact that it's a straight buff that in no way hurts Wendy as a character.

[Bumber64]

She's always been a weak character, like Wes. The BS III skill lowers Abi's healing when active, so now she just dies to normal mobs post-skill tree.

Now her hope for ever becoming a strong character has been stolen by your empty words and your lies! What don't you get?

[Yaorin yon]

5 minutes ago, YouKnowWho142 said:

you're frankly ridiculous man, and that isn't my point. Regardless of how you feel about the skill tree Wendy was always one of the most popular characters, and the skill tree doesn't make any negative changes to her character. You can play her the exact same, and if you choose to interact with her skill tree she just becomes better. The fact that she has a skill tree or just the fact that it's not perceived to be as good as other skill trees doesn't change the fact that it's a straight buff that in no way hurts Wendy as a character.

When others have evolved from 1 to 2, or even to 3, 4, or 5, Wendy has only moved from 1 to 1.1. If you don't understand this, you won't be able to recognize the source of their dissatisfaction. Many people just wanted Wendy to go from 1 to 2, but the result was only 1.1.

[SilverSpoon]

1 minute ago, YouKnowWho142 said:

you're frankly ridiculous man, and that isn't my point. Regardless of how you feel about the skill tree Wendy was always one of the most popular characters, and the skill tree doesn't make any negative changes to her character. You can play her the exact same, and if you choose to interact with her skill tree she just becomes better. The fact that she has a skill tree or just the fact that it's not perceived to be as good as other skill trees doesn't change the fact that it's a straight buff that in no way hurts Wendy as a character.

No. If Walter didn't receive the 2/7 update and Wortox get without any improve and this beta end, it will be very hard for Walter and Wortox mains to continue be main in the future. The same is true for Wendy Main.

We all know by now that the entire game is built around the premise of enough powerful skill trees.

[SilverSpoon]

4 minutes ago, Yaorin yon said:

When others have evolved from 1 to 2, or even to 3, 4, or 5, Wendy has only moved from 1 to 1.1. If you don't understand this, you won't be able to recognize the source of their dissatisfaction. Many people just wanted Wendy to go from 1 to 2, but the result was only 1.1.

Well... "1.1" is too far. I think Wendy's skill tree complete up to 1.7, but even 1.7 isn't enough.

[Koomin]

Her skill tree is equally or more powerful that the majority of those released, regardless of her starting power.  This whole perception of 1->1.1 or whatever is not accurate at all.  She has a powerful and well developed skill tree, and actual play testing has found that.

[CremeLover]

As other characters get their skilltree, they become more interesting and more fun to play; their kit gets expanded, and players old and new get new abilities that open new possibilities.

From my point of view, Wendy does fall into this category, but barely.

My dislike for the skilltree overall can be summarized in mostly these 2 points:

1) Tedium: A non insignificant amount of the new skills require constant maintenance and are inconvenient to use on a regular basis, see Sisturn III, Shadow Abigail, Wraith's Wreath...
One of her skills, butterfly revival, offsets the tedium from her skilltree to the tedium of her basekit, and the pipspook quest skills just reduces the tedium from her basekit, instead of removing it.

2) Tradeoffs and lack of effectiveness: Half the skills in her base skilltree are dedicated to farm more mourning glory, the rest is either tedious to get use out of, or has a tradeoff somewhere, or is a bit lackluster in execution(ej, Meat Effigy reskin). Only exception to this are the team spirit skills, which are universally agreed by everyone to be the best ones out of her skilltree.

 

Wendy is still great, but she has fallen behind substancially in terms of utility and fun for me. I was mostly playing Wanda as of late, and I had hopes the update would give me a reason to go back to Wendy, but all it did was give me reasons to pick Walter instead. And that's because her skilltree is one of the most lackluster of those released, and the non-lackluster skills are hidden behind constant tedium.

Wendy is fine after her skilltree, and she's plays just the same as it did before. I just don't think the skilltree is a particularly good one.

[YouKnowWho142]

3 minutes ago, CremeLover said:

Wendy is fine after her skilltree, and she's plays just the same as it did before. I just don't think the skilltree is a particularly good one.

And that's a fair opinion to have. At worst it's the same character but a little stronger, she's as popular as she is for a reason and the skill tree does nothing to encroach on that

[CremeLover]

1 minute ago, YouKnowWho142 said:

she's as popular as she is for a reason and the skill tree does nothing to encroach on that

Yes it does, I now perceive the character as more tedious than before, and when I make a new world and pick a character, I think of all the tedious chores I will have to do every single time I want to use her, and it detracts from me wanting to play her, specially with the new shinnies coming from other characters.
But then again, is a matter of perception.

[Yaorin yon]

7 minutes ago, YouKnowWho142 said:

And that's a fair opinion to have. At worst it's the same character but a little stronger, she's as popular as she is for a reason and the skill tree does nothing to encroach on that

If a skill tree barely makes her more fun to play with, then why should people be satisfied with that? I think this standard of expectation is too low. There are many people, including myself, who even believe that the skill tree doesn't need to give Wendy any extra attack power. It would be enough if it just improved her quality of life in a better way. But the reality is that everything is built on the premise of making Wendy's experience worse. Every feature is extremely perfunctory and inefficient. If you think that as long as there is a skill tree, it's good, then I think that's exactly why you can't understand other people's dissatisfaction.

[Walrusst]

Sure, part of your skill tree is a 6x improvement on your potion economy and that's not the most interesting thing in the world, but you did get a really core issue of the character of fine control of your ghost being finicky partially addressed because she was already brutally strong once you could learn to control passive Abigail, now you have buttons to cancel your mistakes when Abigail takes aggro she can't handle.

You have got the power to take your ghost and phase it out of enemy attacks when it does something ill advised, frighten hordes of enemies, and another source of inexpensive infinite revives. + Well. You have one of the highest peak dps's on record with cursed vex and the thulecite club breaking over 400 (As one of the people who complained that the wendy nerfs were unjustified in another thread casually mentioned.)

Sisturn 3 is the one area where I'm ??? what it is trying to do, but even with the levels of ??? that gives the whole tree gives out a lot of sustainability and power for free. (Well, that and the common issue of lunar path skills being weird or too specific that like half the cast suffers from.)
If sisturn gave like, a little morning glory from abagail when petals fully rotted in the sisturn (With a cooldown when too much is generated at once, but a bonus for using prettier/rarer flowers) instead of trying combat buff a really strong fighter I'm sure people would be thrilled just because they could use silk to cut down on farming pipspooks.

[kikia]

6 hours ago, Walrusst said:

If sisturn gave like, a little morning glory from abagail when petals fully rotted in the sisturn (With a cooldown when too much is generated at once, but a bonus for using prettier/rarer flowers) instead of trying combat buff a really strong fighter I'm sure people would be thrilled just because they could use silk to cut down on farming pipspooks.

No, we don't. Pipspook skillset already ensures ample Mourning Glories, especially with Elixirs IV further reducing consumption. Giving Sisturn III other functions is simply smarter.

[Veklad]

I think the problem with Wendy's Skill tree is that it doesn't feel like a new change where the devs have really invested dedication and love into the character, it feels more like a QoL update.

Can you now control Abigail better? Excellent, a quality of life improvement

Can you now get more mourning glories in a short time? Excellent, less time we'll have to spend on a tedious task, QoL update

We have a container for potions and mourning glories, excellent, quality of life improvement

All of these additions are excellent, but not for making up a skill tree, they are things that one would expect to be added to the character over time in a natural way

Now, finally we have the really tedious new features like the whole thing about capturing and killing butterflies, I think that is one of the biggest failures of the whole tree, not because it is useless or weak, just because it is boring and tedious.

In summary I think Wendy is still a good character, easy to use for newbies and difficult to master with great potential if you get all the necessary gear (Beefalo + War Saddle). Her only disadvantage, as I mentioned, is that there are many tedious and boring tasks incorporated into her core that make her a character that can only perform to her full potential after a long investment, investment that you will have to repeat if you want that performance several times in the game.

[XenRadon]

Maybe I'm wrong. I think Klei drop Wendy first.

Klei doesn't care about Wendy's skill tree, he’s just phoning it in. 

I'm not Wendy main, so Klei drop, I drop.

 

[Cheggf]

Nothing more than disingenuous liars who think exaggeratory language will convince Klei to make it so that all of her perks look like "+95% resistance to damage & also +50% movement speed & also +200% damage dealt".

[Guille6785]

8 hours ago, Yaorin yon said:

When others have evolved from 1 to 2, or even to 3, 4, or 5, Wendy has only moved from 1 to 1.1. If you don't understand this, you won't be able to recognize the source of their dissatisfaction. Many people just wanted Wendy to go from 1 to 2, but the result was only 1.1.

and this imaginary power is being judged by the metric of:

[Mike23Ua]

8 hours ago, Koomin said:

Her skill tree is equally or more powerful that the majority of those released, regardless of her starting power.  This whole perception of 1->1.1 or whatever is not accurate at all.  She has a powerful and well developed skill tree, and actual play testing has found that.

Out of curiosity did you play test using an Xbox Controller? Cause I’m just gonna come right out and say it: I actually dread the release of the upcoming content update because Klei has changed the easy and comfortable controller input functions to now take even longer to access by tying functions that should be accessible as fast and as conveniently as possible (like mounting & dismounting Woby, or Basic moment to moment Abigail commands) onto a command wheel which will result in taking longer.

I don’t have to guess at this, I’ve seen it happen far too many times in the past with other companies and game franchises…. My one and only hope, is that once it releases to consoles enough people return to flood these forums with how uncomfortable it feels compared to before the new update.

Because myself: Personally? I’m extremely worried the new update will Ruin both Wendy & Walter for me.

[Koomin]

6 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Out of curiosity did you play test using an Xbox Controller? Cause I’m just gonna come right out and say it: I actually dread the release of the upcoming content update because Klei has changed the easy and comfortable controller input functions to now take even longer to access by tying functions that should be accessible as fast and as conveniently as possible (like mounting & dismounting Woby, or Basic moment to moment Abigail commands) onto a command wheel which will result in taking longer.

I don’t have to guess at this, I’ve seen it happen far too many times in the past with other companies and game franchises…. My one and only hope, is that once it releases to consoles enough people return to flood these forums with how uncomfortable it feels compared to before the new update.

Because myself: Personally? I’m extremely worried the new update will Ruin both Wendy & Walter for me.

No I did not.  I have no idea what goes on with controllers, my condolences if it turns out to be sad.

[Maxil20]

8 hours ago, CremeLover said:

Yes it does, I now perceive the character as more tedious than before, and when I make a new world and pick a character, I think of all the tedious chores I will have to do every single time I want to use her

I’m not sure how that would be possible, though. I get the mourning glory/potion skills are not the funnest thing ever, but the skills specifically reduce the tedium of getting glory and crafting more potions, the main thing you are making as Wendy, without making her collection rates worse than before the tree. Pre and post skilltree without taking any skills, there should be an identical amount of tedium, and there should be less if you take the skills. If factoring in the skills, the basket is also of some assistance to organize the glories/potions you will inevitably want to carry with you anyway, either for Abigail or to make use of the wreath.

 

[Walrusst]

1 hour ago, kikia said:

No, we don't. Pipspook skillset already ensures ample Mourning Glories, especially with Elixirs IV further reducing consumption. Giving Sisturn III other functions is simply smarter.

I saw like six threads of people swearing they just want a way to escape pipspooks entirely because the extreme efficiency you could get with mourning glory with the other skills wasn't good enough for a loud vocal group wendy mains apparently. 

At the very least instead of getting combat perk number 6 that gets cut because it wasn't a sustainable idea people who want to roleplay as a pipspook hating jerk can bypass what they dislike while reaching a tiny fraction of the power of what people with a sane response to the current pipspook quests very large payout.

[Steorra]

"Walter should has the best and stop your Wendy & Wortox's crying" lol.

54 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

disingenuous liars

Feel free to take everything of Wendy's matter into personally things. It's Wendy. To criticise or to insult Wendy players is a political correctness of this beta branch. So you will be fine.

[kikia]

1 hour ago, Walrusst said:

I saw like six threads of people swearing they just want a way to escape pipspooks entirely because the extreme efficiency you could get with mourning glory with the other skills wasn't good enough for a loud vocal group wendy mains apparently. 

At the very least instead of getting combat perk number 6 that gets cut because it wasn't a sustainable idea people who want to roleplay as a pipspook hating jerk can bypass what they dislike while reaching a tiny fraction of the power of what people with a sane response to the current pipspook quests very large payout.

I welcome integrating this design into Sisturn I rather than replacing Sisturn III. Having three capstone skills revolve solely around expanding/conserving mourning glories feels stale. some people don't like pipspooks because quests are tedious—a sentiment I share. If possible, I’d prefer Klei to make helping pipspooks more engaging as a interesting way, not just a grind.

 

and some grievances:

Wendy’s entire skill tree suffers from this flaw—not fun, lacks depth, feeling more like a patch, a belated after-service. During her first character refresh, the most popular change was: “Finally, I can summon Abby freely without her dying to swamp tentacles.” Now, this update’s bittersweet victory lies in granting the sisters the bond they deserved—— arriving over 4,000 days after their debut in DS.