Yes, we do need to nerf Wendy's beefalo.

[Gashzer]

Beefalo is a follower and should only get the 10% damage bonus not 40% that Wendy gets from Abigails vex no matter if Wendy is riding the beefalo or not.

This shouldn't have been a thing anyway because a beefalo is already a way around Wendy's 0.75x damage multiplier and doesn't need this extra damage on top of that.

Makes zero sense why wendys 0.75x damage multiplier doesn't effect beefalo damage but abigail special vex bonus which is meant to be unique to Wendy does.

Either both effect the beefalo or neither does.

Clearly a coding oversight by Klei, please patch.

[Catuna_]

I feel like making these posts in response to other posts can come out as rude, you should probably just reply to the OG post instead, for the sake of avoiding cluttering the forum as well

[Dingle]

It is really strange that she is the Beefalo powerhouse character. It always seemed like a bug.

[Cassielu]

I'm disappointed that people think about the problem of damage calculation only in this case/ for this purpose.

[Picklesaurus]

1 minute ago, Cassielu said:

I'm disappointed that people think about the problem of damage calculation only in this case/ for this purpose.

I wish for Vex potion to allow her to deal more damage against planar enemies, reduce vex potion pre rift damage a bit and give it more planar damage/allow it to also increase planar damage against planar enemies!

[Steorra]

I wonder if this is off topic or not, since this is just an old mechanic which existed from where the refresh of Wendy finished.

And if you think this is a bug, I personally recommend you to post this thing in Bug Tracker.

Here it is:

https://forums.kleientertainment.com/klei-bug-tracker/dont-starve-together-beta-branch/

[Gashzer]

1 hour ago, Catuna_ said:

I feel like making these posts in response to other posts can come out as rude, you should probably just reply to the OG post instead, for the sake of avoiding cluttering the forum as well

I mean the original post title was a bit rude to start with.

This is an important issue with wendy because it effects how players approach playing wendy. So i think we need more topics discussing this problem.

Right now you are shoehorned into getting an ornery beefalo to not only remove her downside but to maximise wendys damage potential. I believe this is fundamentally wrong. Wendy isn't some sort of beefalo beast tamer character that she should do her most damage while riding a beefalo. 

Its thematically wrong for abigail to boost beefalo damage to these levels. And is 100% affecting the balance of her skilltree.

 

[Echsrick]

thinkin about it, it alsol makes no sense, the one that is attackin IS the beefalo, not wendy even if wendy is the rider, the beef still is the one that does the contact onto the foe, so  it realy sould not make wendys beefalo get the full power

[DVGMedia]

9 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

This is an important issue with wendy because it effects how players approach playing wendy. So i think we need more topics discussing this problem.

Right now you are shoehorned into getting an ornery beefalo to not only remove her downside but to maximise wendys damage potential. I believe this is fundamentally wrong. Wendy isn't some sort of beefalo beast tamer character that she should do her most damage while riding a beefalo. 

Its thematically wrong for abigail to boost beefalo damage to these levels. And is 100% affecting the balance of her skilltree.

 

The thing is A beefalo is not the best choice for every situation in the game.  A beefalo has its downsides.  Its fast but its not good at tanking it only gains a slight buff untill later with the nmsaddle.  But a beefalo is built for everyday basic fights and fights that the player can kite as just tanking and healing a beefalo is much slower than the player.

There is strategic advantage to using a beefalo vs not using. Which is why its not just a core of the character.

Some people who want to maximize it will. But its not entirely needed for the character. So why should a nerf be applied?

It would harm more people than it would satisfy others.

Plus saddle balance. War saddle is a beefalos worst saddle.  default and gloss provide much more utility in everyday.

[DaDa_waw]

13 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

I mean the original post title was a bit rude to start with.

This is an important issue with wendy because it effects how players approach playing wendy. So i think we need more topics discussing this problem.

Right now you are shoehorned into getting an ornery beefalo to not only remove her downside but to maximise wendys damage potential. I believe this is fundamentally wrong. Wendy isn't some sort of beefalo beast tamer character that she should do her most damage while riding a beefalo.

Its thematically wrong for abigail to boost beefalo damage to these levels. And is 100% affecting the balance of her skilltree.

 

Your logic makes people feel very strange. In your words, the presence of killer bees and spiders is too strong, making Wortox and Willow's skill tree too strong. The shadow creatures that automatically appear when your san is too low are too strong, making Maxwell's abilities too strong. Boulder, who only gave stones, was too strong, making it easier for Winona to create a catapult. There are too many types of spiders, Weber will definitely become too strong.

Do you think your logical derivatives are reasonable? It is only natural for some characters' characteristics to receive additional benefits through universal resources in the game. I don't understand the significance of this "repair". Apart from satisfying some people's "meddling" mentality, what other benefits does it have for the game? Is it not allowed for your character to experience more synergy?

[Crimson Hollow]

Wigfrid is the one with beefalo taming perks, so theoretically she should probably be the one with damage boosts and healing perks as well... 

I didn't see wendys relation with that, but I can see both sides so idk

[Lardee]

This is another one that never made any sense to me.

Has anyone ever explained how removing Wendy's special interaction with Beefalo would make Wendy a more fun, interesting or unique character?  

[Steorra]

5 minutes ago, Crimson Hollow said:

Wigfrid is the one with beefalo taming perks, so theoretically she should probably be the one with damage boosts and healing perks as well... 

I didn't see wendys relation with that, but I can see both sides so idk

Yes, this is quite illogical. I was AFKing during the beta of Wirfrid tree. Or I would shouted aloud for buffing her branch of Beefalo. (Or for a completely rework)

[SilverSpoon]

6 minutes ago, Crimson Hollow said:

Wigfrid is the one with beefalo taming perks, so theoretically she should probably be the one with damage boosts and healing perks as well... 

I didn't see wendys relation with that, but I can see both sides so idk

That should be the case. It would salvation her Beefalo skills a lot.

[Szczuku]

2 hours ago, Catuna_ said:

I feel like making these posts in response to other posts can come out as rude, you should probably just reply to the OG post instead, for the sake of avoiding cluttering the forum as well

Nah, keep making posts like that. It's very entertaining from an outsider perspective, seeing y'all bicker like that

[aidankocherhans]

41 minutes ago, Echsrick said:

thinkin about it, it alsol makes no sense, the one that is attackin IS the beefalo, not wendy even if wendy is the rider, the beef still is the one that does the contact onto the foe, so  it realy sould not make wendys beefalo get the full power

 

36 minutes ago, DVGMedia said:

The thing is A beefalo is not the best choice for every situation in the game.  A beefalo has its downsides.  Its fast but its not good at tanking it only gains a slight buff untill later with the nmsaddle.  But a beefalo is built for everyday basic fights and fights that the player can kite as just tanking and healing a beefalo is much slower than the player.

There is strategic advantage to using a beefalo vs not using. Which is why its not just a core of the character.

Some people who want to maximize it will. But its not entirely needed for the character. So why should a nerf be applied?

It would harm more people than it would satisfy others.

Plus saddle balance. War saddle is a beefalos worst saddle.  default and gloss provide much more utility in everyday.

Honestly, I think these kinds of arguments are kinda irrelevant. The one question that really should be asked is: Is there a gameplay reason why Wendy should deal significantly more damage on a beefalo than without, beyond just ignoring her lower damage modifier?

[Lardee]

14 minutes ago, aidankocherhans said:

 

Honestly, I think these kinds of arguments are kinda irrelevant. The one question that really should be asked is: Is there a gameplay reason why Wendy should deal significantly more damage on a beefalo than without, beyond just ignoring her lower damage modifier?

Yes, because it makes Wendy a more unique and interesting character.

Almost every character is incentivized to tame a Rider Beefalo and do all fighting on foot since Riders are faster and the player can greatly outdamage Ornery Beefalo with melee. Not to mention the fact that it's generally a lot safer to fight bosses or post-rift mobs with traditional armor + healing.

Making Wendy access her highest DPS while using a Beefalo incentivizes Wendy players to approach the game differently than the typical character's decisions in regards to combat and Beefalo resulting in a more unique and interesting game experience.  

Removing the incentives to use Beefalo for combat would make Wendy gameplay look a lot more like Wilson gameplay.

[Dingle]

1 hour ago, DVGMedia said:

The thing is A beefalo is not the best choice for every situation in the game.  A beefalo has its downsides.  Its fast but its not good at tanking it only gains a slight buff untill later with the nmsaddle.  But a beefalo is built for everyday basic fights and fights that the player can kite as just tanking and healing a beefalo is much slower than the player.

There is strategic advantage to using a beefalo vs not using. Which is why its not just a core of the character.

Some people who want to maximize it will. But its not entirely needed for the character. So why should a nerf be applied?

It would harm more people than it would satisfy others.

Plus saddle balance. War saddle is a beefalos worst saddle.  default and gloss provide much more utility in everyday.

You can just swap saddles.

You don't even need a saddlehorn.

[Gashzer]

46 minutes ago, Lardee said:

This is another one that never made any sense to me.

Has anyone ever explained how removing Wendy's special interaction with Beefalo would make Wendy a more fun, interesting or unique character?  

Its not a special interaction, its an oversight.

And how does it make Wendy more interesting? It's just a damage buff? There's no extra special interaction or new mechanic. The arguement of saying Wolfgang is boring because he's just simple number buffs also applies here.

If klei removes this then they don't have to feel guilty giving Wendy more powerful skills in her skilltree. 

Dont you see it affects how klei is approaching designing her skilltree.

 

[DVGMedia]

2 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Its not a special interaction, its an oversight.

And how does it make Wendy more interesting? It's just a damage buff? There's no extra special interaction or new mechanic. The arguement of saying Wolfgang is boring because he's just simple number buffs also applies here.

If klei removes this then they don't have to feel guilty giving Wendy more powerful skills in her skilltree. 

Dont you see it affects how klei is approaching designing her skilltree.

 

Beefalos are not good in all scenearios

[Gashzer]

1 hour ago, DaDa_waw said:

Your logic makes people feel very strange. In your words, the presence of killer bees and spiders is too strong, making Wortox and Willow's skill tree too strong. The shadow creatures that automatically appear when your san is too low are too strong, making Maxwell's abilities too strong. Boulder, who only gave stones, was too strong, making it easier for Winona to create a catapult. There are too many types of spiders, Weber will definitely become too strong.

These are all thematically fitting examples. Unlike abigail boosting a follower more than abigail can boost Wendy herself. Which is madness.

The whole point of Wendy's character is for Wendy and abigail to work together to be the strongest they can be. Needing a third person in the relationship, a follower in the form of a beefalo as this thematically awkward third wheel is not fun, not interesting and is limiting klei from a creative standpoint.

[SilverSpoon]

2 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

And how does it make Wendy more interesting? It's just a damage buff? There's no extra special interaction or new mechanic. The arguement of saying Wolfgang is boring because he's just simple number buffs also applies here.

I said before that "I think that taking care of both Abigail and Beefalo during fight is worthy of being called as "Skill" or "Effort" or "Challenge" or "Balanced". I'll also add "fun".

3 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

If klei removes this then they don't have to feel guilty giving Wendy more powerful skills in her skilltree. 

I think there are more people who will be sad that what was previously effective is no longer effective than there are people who will be happy that Wendy has been further improved. And I can't think of any new fun that wouldn't be possible unless Beefalo was Nerfed, and Klei has been developing and balancing the game with Beefalo in mind for 3 month, it would be too much of a burden to make Klei start developing and balancing the game from scratch again.

[Gashzer]

7 minutes ago, DVGMedia said:

Beefalos are not good in all scenearios

They really are, they act like a 200hp character with an unbreakable 80% football helmet that slowly regens health, ornery has a permanent tentacle spike, has the speed to kite while holding light sources like lantern and wearing weather insulation gear in head slots without compromising combat survival.

And for Wendy it removes her combat downside meaning players can play Wendy like Wilson with no damage penality for boss fights instead of being forced to learn how to use abigail for bosses to get around Wendy's damage penalty. Yenoo the actual intended mechanic for Wendy, Wendy and abigail working together... 

Bosses with knockback are far less likely to hit you to start with due to beefalos kiting speed and zero walking cane/weapon switching shenanigans.

[Lardee]

27 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Its not a special interaction, its an oversight.

And how does it make Wendy more interesting? It's just a damage buff? There's no extra special interaction or new mechanic. The arguement of saying Wolfgang is boring because he's just simple number buffs also applies here.

If klei removes this then they don't have to feel guilty giving Wendy more powerful skills in her skilltree. 

Dont you see it affects how klei is approaching designing her skilltree.

 

You don't know if it's an oversight or not. But we do know it is a special interaction in that no other character besides Warly has this.

Wolfgang isn't boring because he's simply a numbers buff. Wolfgang is boring because he is incentivized to play the game nearly identical to the way Wilson does.

Wendy's special interaction with Beefalo incentivizes her to approach both combat and beefalo taming differently than Wilson, Wolfgang and nearly every other character. Nearly every character out damages Beefalo making beefalo combat inferior. Beefalo combat is generally less safe against bosses and post-rift mobs making beefalo combat inferior. Therefore the typical approach to combat and beefalo is to tame a rider and fight on foot because that's what's where the incentives are.

Wendy's special interaction with Beefalo incentivizes her to approach combat and beefalo taming differently by making Beefalo combat superior (at least DPS-wise) to combat on foot. Instead of doing what every other character does: rider + fight on foot, there's a legitimate reason for her to tame an ornery and contend with the differences between beefalo and default melee. 

It has nothing to do with Wendy being powerful. It would be just as bad if Klei buffed Wendy's melee damage to match or even exceed what she can do with a Beefalo, because that would also remove all the incentives for Wendy to approach beefalo and combat differently than Wilson, Wolfgang, Willow ....

[Echsrick]

alsol the one that SOULD do more damage with a beefalo sould be wigfrid, why else have her spesificaly have beefalo related skills? wendy does not have that so why sould she even be better then the character that has skills designed to use beefalos?