Yes, we do need to nerf Wendy's beefalo.

[WenericMember]

27 minutes ago, Bumber64 said:

A -0.18 difference isn't very significant here. 1.9 is still very high, despite being technically lower than Wolfgang.

If we go down to ~1.8, that seems like a reasonable number for beefalo, but it makes it 1.35 on foot. That's not worth the resources spent. The beefalo is clearly the thing that's upsetting the balance.

The beefalo needs to be nerfed specifically to preserve on foot damage.

That's my exact concern. Any problems with Wendy's DPS right now is exclusively to do with Beefalo. Nerfing cursed vexation because of that would be a horrific choice and just punish people who don't use Beef.

[Gashzer]

8 hours ago, WenericMember said:

That's my exact concern. Any problems with Wendy's DPS right now is exclusively to do with Beefalo. Nerfing cursed vexation because of that would be a horrific choice and just punish people who don't use Beef.

Yeah this is my entire logic behind this post.

Beefalo damage getting Wendy's unique vex bonus is putting klei in an awkward position for balancing the skilltree.

But keeping obsolete, non-thematically accurate interactions is more important for the old veterans.

[Grove]

On 1/31/2025 at 11:17 PM, Debruh said:

Honestly, yea.

Wendy finding strength in another friend/creature, that she has to actively seek out a bond with. Fits really well. It's healthy both for her and Abby. She gains a friend that she can seek protection in, another bond aside from Abby. While Abby can rest when she's tired (at lvl 1 for example), and rest easily knowing that her sister is safe and doesn't need her protection.

Abby still plays a big role. Her vex is the whole reason Beef are good with Wendy. And she's really helpful in beef taming. Distracting enemies from attacking it till Wendy can feed and mount it for example. It also does contribute to Abby's kind of character arc. Originally she was jealous of chester, a creature that helped Wendy. But now she's helping Wendy protect another creature that helps her. And she's also a friend to the other survivors, outgrowing her jealous ways.

Also, as a Wendy with a beef, your way of keeping both Abby and it, post rifts that is, is Cure-all for Abby, and the gloom bell for the beef.

One made out of the telltale heart, and the other made out of the possessed atrium, which is pretty much a heart. Both requiring a heart is kinda funny to me or smth

[CremeLover]

I'm still confused by all of this.

Been going through this and other threads, and I still don't understand.

Can anybody explain in a non-subjective way why Wendy doing more damage with beefalo is problematic?

[Grove]

5 minutes ago, CremeLover said:

I'm still confused by all of this.

Been going through this and other threads, and I still don't understand.

Can anybody explain in a non-subjective way why Wendy doing more damage with beefalo is problematic?

From what I have seen

1) Balance problems. Higher dps than Wolfgang? Something about damage being Wendy's weakness (even though a lot of characters excel at what their 'weakness' is)

2) it being a bug.

3)Apparently it's not thematic.

Honestly, all of these feel pretty subjective, but they have been the reasons floating around.

[Dr. Safety]

15 minutes ago, CremeLover said:

I'm still confused by all of this.

Been going through this and other threads, and I still don't understand.

Can anybody explain in a non-subjective way why Wendy doing more damage with beefalo is problematic?

People don't care if she just does more damage with a beefalo. Wendy has always been on the list of characters who greatly benefit from a beefalo and it was never a problem. They care that either

• A. The beefalo gets her personal damage buff from the elixir but not her personal damage nerf from hitting softer, making it objectively inconsistent
• B. She outperforms characters whose entire character perk is do deal more damage, despite the fact that her only downside is that she deals less damage

A is an objective inconsistency, and while B is subjective, it is a byproduct of A. I can't speak for everyone on my side of the argument (thinking the damage needs nerfed), but fixing the interaction between the beefalo and the elixir seems like it would satisfy a lot of people on my side, myself included.

[Gashzer]

3 minutes ago, CremeLover said:

I'm still confused by all of this.

Been going through this and other threads, and I still don't understand.

Can anybody explain in a non-subjective way why Wendy doing more damage with beefalo is problematic?

A beefalo is a damage source that isn't effected by her 0.75x damage multiplier therefore leading Wendy to hit her max damage potential when using an ornery beefalo.

This could be viewed as a coding oversight as a arguement could be made that her vex bonus is a high 1.4x to compensate for Wendy's 0.75x damage penalty. But klei forgot to take into account mounted beefalo damage. Back in the day beefalos couldn't go into caves and generally were less useful. 

Can be seen as thematically wrong. Wigfrid thematically plays a viking warrior and the beefalo skills fall under her thematically as her battle mount. And here we have Wendy who has no thematic connection to beefalos, synergising better than wigfrid when using a beefalo as a battle mount as it gets around wendys downside at worst and allows her to reach extremely high dps at best.

Before anyone brings up Warly, he can feed chilli food to a beefalo to boost its damage, this is fine thematically and from a gameplay point of view makes sense. The volt goat jelly boost doesn't really make sense tbh.

I believe this counter question is more important, why should Wendy achieve uniquely higher dps than other characters when using a beefalo?

[Steorra]

6 minutes ago, Dr. Safety said:

A. The beefalo gets her personal damage buff from the elixir but not her personal damage nerf from hitting softer, making it objectively inconsistent

The potion gave enhance to the vex debuff, it's none of Beefalo's business.

8 minutes ago, Dr. Safety said:

B. She outperforms characters whose entire character perk is do deal more damage, despite the fact that her only downside is that she deals less damage

Already been proved is a selective fact, or, almost a lie. 

10 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

A beefalo is a damage source that isn't effected by her 0.75x damage multiplier

This is a basic mechanics of Beefalo from very beginning.

11 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Wigfrid thematically plays a viking warrior and the beefalo skills

This is the fault of Wigfrid's tree. None of Wendy's business.

12 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

why should Wendy achieve uniquely higher dps than other characters when using a beefalo?

Because Wendy could apply "take extra damage" debuff to target. The only thing should be highlighted here is that this debuff would gave an extra 1.4 multiplier when the damage source is from Wendy.

[Gashzer]

16 minutes ago, Steorra said:

Because Wendy could apply "take extra damage" debuff to target. The only thing should be highlighted here is that this debuff would gave an extra 1.4 multiplier when the damage source is from Wendy.

 

19 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

A beefalo is a damage source that isn't effected by her 0.75x damage multiplier

18 minutes ago, Steorra said:

This is a basic mechanics of Beefalo from very beginning.

As you said yourself. Beefalo is the source of damage not wendy 

Hence this entire thread complaining about beefalos getting the 1.4x vex buff when it's not actually Wendy attacking. And if it is Wendy attacking why doesnt the 0.75x multiplier kick into effect?

 

[Yaorin yon]

26 minutes ago, Dr. Safety said:

I can't speak for everyone on my side of the argument (thinking the damage needs nerfed), but fixing the interaction between the beefalo and the elixir seems like it would satisfy a lot of people on my side, myself included.

This is the least logical part of the entire discussion. This change reduces synergy and diminishes the gameplay options for players using Wendy. I can't see how a player who wants to make the game more enjoyable would find this idea satisfying. If there isn't a sufficiently logical reason for this, then everything built on this foundation is extremely unreasonable. I've only seen this kind of situation in one type of game: PvP. However, DST is not a PvP game. If anyone finds satisfaction in this, the only reason I can think of is that forum discussions are a "PvP game" for such people, rather than being about making the game more fun. I hope there is a sufficiently compelling reason to dispel this notion, because it's very disappointing, both for such people and for the forum allowing this to happen.

[Steorra]

24 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Beefalo is the source of damage not wendy 

Your logic is more like "the damage source is not Wolfgang but Shadow Sword" here tbh.

24 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

hy doesnt the 0.75x multiplier kick into effect?

 

Already explained above. It's the mechanic of Beefalo from the very beginning. Once the Beefalo being able to tame, that was how it's works.

[Yaorin yon]

12 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

 

As you said yourself. Beefalo is the source of damage not wendy

 

Showing off “cleverness” is boring. The Beefalo is a weapon that is not affected by a character's base damage multiplier but is influenced by buffs that directly affect the Beefalo's multiplier and non - base damage buffs applied to the character. Abigail is a final - stage damage multiplier that belongs to the category of non - base damage buffs applied to the character. If these fundamental issues are not understood, then such nonsensical discussions will fill every corner of the forum.

[Thieta]

51 minutes ago, CremeLover said:

I'm still confused by all of this.

Been going through this and other threads, and I still don't understand.

Can anybody explain in a non-subjective way why Wendy doing more damage with beefalo is problematic?

In a perfectly subjective way - It's not.

Wendy cannot achieve Wolfgang's level of damage so it will not make wendy the new #1 Dmg dealer.

It in no way breaks the game, Other characters can do more dmg than wendy with similar setup (Their theroetical damage scales higher as time goes on) like wurt getting a few merms... That she can recruit en mass from the start of the game.

Beefalo interaction supports a specific and entirely *optional*  playstyle, Not everyone is gonna bother with a beefalo and there's a lot of fights where using one isn't even worth it. 

There is actually, Factually, From a gameplay perspective nothing negative that is derived from wendy dealing her current damage on the beefalo. At most you will see a few new wendy player's tame one and try it out. Vast majority of which will fail, Have the beefalo die, or just not like it and decide to not use a beef. It doesn't hinder or ruin other characters, Nor does it ruin the gameplay experience while playing as Wendy (In comparison walter can slow bosses down and trivialize the fights to the point it counts as legit cheese imo, This ignores the difficulty and ruins player experience)

The only issue people have is that wendy is a weak girl who got a lot of attention for this skill tree and they are jealous/mad and feel that she NEEDS to be nerfed in some kind of way to feel good about themselves.

[Steorra]

11 minutes ago, Thieta said:

The only issue people have is that wendy is a weak girl who got a lot of attention for this skill tree and they are jealous/mad and feel that she NEEDS to be nerfed in some kind of way to feel good about themselves.

Thanks for speak out what we dare not to say.

[Yaorin yon]

14 minutes ago, Thieta said:

The only issue people have is that wendy is a weak girl who got a lot of attention for this skill tree and they are jealous/mad and feel that she NEEDS to be nerfed in some kind of way to feel good about themselves.

In a forum that is characterized by its management, such courageous speech is truly commendable. If the forum were genuinely so enthusiastic about civility and politeness, this topic would not be the subject of so much contention. However, the fact that such behavior is clearly condoned by the management is truly disappointing.

[Mr. Furman]

7 minutes ago, Thieta said:

The only issue people have is that wendy is a weak girl who got a lot of attention for this skill tree and they are jealous/mad and feel that she NEEDS to be nerfed in some kind of way to feel good about themselves.

telling us you're in an echo chamber without telling us you're in an echo chamber.

9 minutes ago, Thieta said:

It in no way breaks the game, Other characters can do more dmg than wendy with similar setup (Their theroetical damage scales higher as time goes on) like wurt getting a few merms... That she can recruit en mass from the start of the game.

Comparing Wendy to a minion summoner character like Wurt sounds less valid tbh, but if you're comparing her to someone like Willow it will probably make more sense. 

[Dr. Safety]

4 minutes ago, Yaorin yon said:

This is the least logical part of the entire discussion. This change reduces synergy and diminishes the gameplay options for players using Wendy. I can't see how a player who wants to make the game more enjoyable would find this idea satisfying. If there isn't a sufficiently logical reason for this, then everything built on this foundation is extremely unreasonable. I've only seen this kind of situation in one type of game: PvP. However, DST is not a PvP game. If anyone finds satisfaction in this, the only reason I can think of is that forum discussions are a "PvP game" for such people, rather than being about making the game more fun. I hope there is a sufficiently compelling reason to dispel this notion, because it's very disappointing, both for such people and for the forum allowing this to happen.

This logic is so flimsy that it can be applied to anything that is too powerful though. I could say "I want Maxwell to be able to fly around and that klei should give him a sniper rifle. Doing that would give Maxwell more synergy and boost his gameplay. I can't see how a player who wants to make this game more enjoyable would want to not let Maxwell have all that stuff". Do you think Maxwell should fly around with a sniper rifle?

19 minutes ago, Steorra said:

Your logic is more like "the damage source is not Wolfgang but Shadow Sword" here tbh.

Already explained above. It's the mechanic of Beefalo from the very beginning. Once the Beefalo could be tamed, that is how it's works.

Gonna respond to this one because Gashzer said what I was going to.

You are contradicting yourself here. The mechanic of the beefalo is that it doesn't deal 0.75x damage when Wendy is riding it. The beefalo is separate from Wendy and so it doesn't deal less damage. The elixir gives Wendy a 1.4x damage modifier, but as established, the beefalo isn't Wendy.

[Steorra]

6 minutes ago, Dr. Safety said:

Gonna respond to this one because Gashzer said what I was going to.

You are contradicting yourself here. The mechanic of the beefalo is that it doesn't deal 0.75x damage when Wendy is riding it. The beefalo is separate from Wendy and so it doesn't deal less damage. The elixir gives Wendy a 1.4x damage modifier, but as established, the beefalo isn't Wendy.

You seems simply ignored my word.

Repeat: the 1.4 multiplier is "target take extra damage" debuff when damage source is Wendy. It's never a buff applied on Wendy herself.

[SilverSpoon]

1 hour ago, CremeLover said:

I'm still confused by all of this.

Been going through this and other threads, and I still don't understand.

Can anybody explain in a non-subjective way why Wendy doing more damage with beefalo is problematic?

So let me turn the other way and tell you why you shouldn't fix it.

• IF IT AIN'T BROKE DON'T FIX IT. Wendy dealing more damage with Beefalo doesn't break any game balance numerically and is still in the character balance, and fixing doesn't make the game any more fun. so there's no reason to fix it.

• Humanity is furious when a treat once given is later taken away. Judging from the Wiki, this "specification" has been in place for five years since 2020. During this time, Players has mastered the technique of increasing DPS through interaction with Beefalo. To take it away now would require a really strong backfire, and there is less reward to be gained from it. If an update makes it impossible to do something wish not enough reason, it's not an update, it's a deterioration.
• I think that taking care of both Abigail and Beefalo during fight is worthy of being called as "Skill" or "Effort" or "Challenge" or "Balanced" or "fun".
• I think it will be those who are happy about it, there are much more people who are sad that the interaction between Wendy and Beefalo that they have enjoyed up until now will be taken away.

---

I think the best landing point for both parties is: pinpoint Nerf the synergy between Cursed Vexation and Beefalo, and "reduce" the DPS increase that comes with it, not "eliminate" it.

[Dr. Safety]

1 minute ago, Steorra said:

You seems simply ignored my word.

Repeat: the 1.4 multiplier is "target take extra damage" debuff when damage source is Wendy. It's never a buff applied on Wendy herself.

You ignored my words.

The source is the beefalo, not Wendy. Otherwise the 0.75x multiplier would be applied too, which isn't how beefalos work as we've established

[Steorra]

9 minutes ago, Dr. Safety said:

You ignored my words.

The source is the beefalo, not Wendy. Otherwise the 0.75x multiplier would be applied too, which isn't how beefalos work as we've established

There's a simple way to verify what is the damage source when Wendy attack while riding a Beefalo - PvP on, use Wendy with a beefalo to kill another player, check the system message for who killed that player. Could you help me to do this?

If it's Beefalo, then you're right.

 

Damage source is not "damage dealt by what"

[Dr. Safety]

Just now, Steorra said:

There's a simple way to verify what is the damage source when Wendy attack while riding a Beefalo - PvP on, use Wendy with a beefalo to kill another player, check the system message for who killed that player. Could you help me to do this?

I'm at work right now but I imagine it would say Wendy. In that case, the 0.75x damage should actually be applied to the beefalo, and I applaud your courage and bravery in bringing this to the communities attention. Truly saying what others won't 

[Steorra]

6 minutes ago, Dr. Safety said:

In that case, the 0.75x damage should actually be applied to the beefalo,

This was never happened from when the beefalo being able to tame. Go blame Klei.

[Yaorin yon]

16 minutes ago, Dr. Safety said:

This logic is so flimsy that it can be applied to anything that is too powerful though. I could say "I want Maxwell to be able to fly around and that klei should give him a sniper rifle. Doing that would give Maxwell more synergy and boost his gameplay. I can't see how a player who wants to make this game more enjoyable would want to not let Maxwell have all that stuff". Do you think Maxwell should fly around with a sniper rifle?

I am seeking your rationale to correct any misunderstandings between us. If you choose to evade the issue and instead steer the conversation towards a topic that allows me to fully assess your behavior, that would be truly pitiful.

Firstly, Abigail’s curse effect is a reasonable and long-standing aspect of the game. Your abrupt imposition of a sniper rifle on Maxwell is as unreasonable as your unwarranted interference with Beefalo during the beta testing.

Secondly, Beefalo is a side element in the game, something that is not necessary in a normal gameplay process. The only synergy you mentioned in your expression reveals the hysterical outcome when your sense of superiority is exposed and challenged in this forum.

[Dr. Safety]

1 minute ago, Steorra said:

This was never happened from when the beefalo being able to tame. Go blame Klei.

Then we can start making topics asking Klei to fix this together. Come friend, let's bask in the one agreement we came to.

 

9 minutes ago, Thieta said:

You're either doing the most strawman argument or you're just kinda dumb... Not worth my time to explain you're wrong, So I'll just say... You are wrong.

Just let it go lil bro... You're wrong.

Please explain to dumb lil bro. He needs the explanation. Everyone else tries to but it keeps sounding like they want the upsides of the beefalo interaction and not the downsides. Help me understand how that isn't the case. Dumb lil bro would be very appreciative