Leaving the game for the best

[Mysterious box]

4 minutes ago, Catuna_ said:

you seem to be mistaking the terms casual and new, a casual player is not a young infant child playing DST on their nintendo DS with a broken display, it's still people that are aware of how the game works but aren't (or dont have the time to be) serious about optimization enough to want to learn more complicated strategies.
Skill trees aim to make characters stronger, in turn, characters require less and less complicated/input-heavy strategies in combat (and of course boss fights), think of a boss like Bee Queen, a boss that was previously notoriously difficult. With today's character roster, though, almost everyone has AoE and/or a way to make her incredibly easy to fight and the fight is... kind of a joke in comparison (Willow, Wolfgang, Wendy, Wickerbottom, Woodie, Maxwell, Wigfrid, Webber, Winona, Wortox, Wormwood, Wurt, Walter, Wanda all have a very good matchup against Bee Queen.)

This enables casual players who otherwise would struggle to at least squeeze through and get by in the fight without major complications, with not much input for a huge reward (think of Willow being able to kill all of Bee Queen's grumble bees with lunar flames or causing them to panic with combustion). The notion that this only benefits experienced players is absurd.

I kind of disagree at least personally outside of say Wurt I don't think skill trees currently give enough power that they'd suddenly make someone who currently is unable to beat bosses beat them. They definitely make general survival easier but if someone is say struggling on dragonfly I don't think Willow's skill tree is going to be the deal breaker.

 

6 minutes ago, Catuna_ said:

Casual players aren't necessarily unable to locate lunar, and the buff from lunar tree blossoms are quite literally geared towards casual players as experienced players never needed Abigail to become more resilient. It was Wendy's casual player base that claimed that she was incredibly weak and fragile in combat and against bosses.

I'm not saying they'll never locate it but finding the lunar island isn't that easy for most but by process of elimination you'll eventually find it. Whether Abigial needed a survivability buff however I feel is more debatable than just only casual players needed it.

[Tranoze]

1 minute ago, Mysterious box said:

they'd suddenly make someone who currently is unable to beat bosses beat them.

Which skill tree specificly?
If wendy, Abi did get tankier, but not to the point solo boss like the first beta. You still need to either good enough to dodge boss, or prepare enough to face tank bosses, just like before skill tree, just the resouces needed change a bit.

If winona, she got whole new rework along with skill tree, so add that into account.

If Willow, 

hmmm

yee seem like willow can let bernie solo bosses, but it still needed for her to actually join combat if she dont want the fight to last forever.

[Mysterious box]

6 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

I don't understand your logic, you want the game to be more difficult but at the same time would want to have your character be as strong as others, how does this make sense? Play Wilson or Wes and if you can't do that but still advocate to make the game more difficult maybe it is you that needs to reconsider what you enjoy about DST and you may not want game to be difficult for you but for everyone for some reason.

 

8 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

I don't understand your logic, you want the game to be more difficult but at the same time would want to have your character be as strong as others, how does this make sense? Play Wilson or Wes and if you can't do that but still advocate to make the game more difficult maybe it is you that needs to reconsider what you enjoy about DST and you may not want game to be difficult for you but for everyone for some reason.

Majority of the players like skill trees but there is a small minority that doesn't and even smaller minority advocates for their removal but the kicker is that they don't have to use them, no one is forcing your hand here. Like how you keep saying that devs should add godmode clientside or kill switch to mock players that want something to be easier, what is stopping you from not using specific items? Some people kill FW without weather pain, brightshade staff or lazy explorer. 

We currently have weak characters, some that are in the middle and powerful characters so everyone can have the experience they enjoy, DST has a ton of mods and world settings so that your game can be as difficult as you want it to be.

Game being easier from the start will actually retain players, I've had multiple IRL friends quit because they die too often, now with skill trees they can see some progression because there is no goal in DST and nothing else to guide you on what to do.

I don't want this but it's clear the community does if it were up to me I'd tone things down instead but if there becomes a big character imbalance again how would we be in a situation any different than when character refreshes ended? You'll just end up with the same situation I like to call back to the fact some of the earliest refreshes for the most part were well received until we got towards the end and there was a outcry for more buffs for the weaker characters so what do you think is going to happen at the end of these skill trees if there's a gap in design quality?

I feel like if the issue is too many people are having issues with the current design of the game maybe that's where the refreshes should occur fixing up the mainland, giving the player more guidance, rebalancing early game bosses, and other mechanics.

3 minutes ago, Tranoze said:

Which skill tree specificly?
If wendy, Abi did get tankier, but not to the point solo boss like the first beta. You still need to either good enough to dodge boss, or prepare enough to face tank bosses, just like before skill tree, just the resouces needed change a bit.

If winona, she got whole new rework along with skill tree, so add that into account.

If Willow, 

hmmm

yee seem like willow can let bernie solo bosses, but it still needed for her to actually join combat if she dont want the fight to last forever.

I think you missed part of what you quoted.

8 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

I don't think skill trees currently give enough power that they'd suddenly make someone who currently is unable to beat bosses beat them.

What I'm saying is I don't think skill trees are the deal breaker that will suddenly make those who struggle the most with bosses suddenly make them beat them if it's such a large issue I think it needs to be addressed outside of specific characters especially if Wilson is supposed to offer the baseline experience. To be clear this isn't me saying people are too dumb to learn or something ridiculous like that I'm saying if a large amount of people are struggling with boss content in most cases giving them a bigger gun probably doesn't solve the issue. 

[Gytre]

10 hours ago, Lardee said:

Now we have Walter who's gameplay is just "hold F and walk away when the enemy gets near".

 Isn't this what every character does?

10 hours ago, Lardee said:

Even regular Wilson gameplay feels cheap considering the Reaper completely outclasses all the previous top tier melee options in both power and cost effectiveness.

Rift weapons are the rewards for killing the hardest bosses and activating hard mode (which isn't finished yet) so they should be better than dark sword and they are. I still don't understand why everyone on forum hates when we get new meta weapons?

10 hours ago, Lardee said:

I think Klei probably doesn't want people getting too invested in their game because it's not profitable. They want people to get hooked on quick success power through the game's content then move on to one of their other games like Rotwood or Oxygen and to be honest that makes a lot more sense financially.

What? This doesn't make any sense, please explain.

[Anis5240]

17 minutes ago, Gytre said:

11 hours ago, Lardee said:

I think Klei probably doesn't want people getting too invested in their game because it's not profitable. They want people to get hooked on quick success power through the game's content then move on to one of their other games like Rotwood or Oxygen and to be honest that makes a lot more sense financially.

Expand  

What? This doesn't make any sense, please explain.

They legit forgot DST IS Klei's most profitable game.

[Tranoze]

1 hour ago, Mysterious box said:

giving them a bigger gun probably doesn't solve the issue. 

handicap them doesn't help either.

[Lardee]

3 hours ago, Gytre said:

 Isn't this what every character does?

Every character has to constantly be in enemy melee range to deal damage. This forces them to understand the specific enemy kiting pattern and bring armor/healing in case they mess up.

None of this applies to Walter. He just slows them down and never gets into their range.

3 hours ago, Gytre said:

Rift weapons are the rewards for killing the hardest bosses and activating hard mode (which isn't finished yet) so they should be better than dark sword and they are. I still don't understand why everyone on forum hates when we get new meta weapons?

They should be stronger than dark swords. The problem is how cheap they are. Before Terrors below, you had to think about which weapon you were going to use because because the stronger options were resource intense. This meant that even in late game, it wouldn't be surprising if dark swords, thul clubs, glass cutters, morning star and hambat all saw use.  

Once you get the shadow reaper, you can pretty much forget that any other weapon exists due them having 200 uses and a single repair kit restoring the weapon to full.

3 hours ago, Gytre said:

What? This doesn't make any sense, please explain.

Klei doesn't want people spending so much time on their game. They want you to get invested in DST, finish the game and move on to their other titles.  Klei doesn't make any money if you can buy everything with spools after playing for thousands of hours.

[Anis5240]

1 minute ago, Lardee said:

finish the game

By that logic, they clearly should have focused on the storyline only after Wilson's skill tree was released (y'know, the goddamn supposed last rework. Yet the man himself didn't even receive one). No one ever expected them to make another round of character reworks.

[Paxtonnnn]

9 minutes ago, Anis5240 said:

By that logic, they clearly should have focused on the storyline only after Wilson's skill tree was released (y'know, the goddamn supposed last rework. Yet the man himself didn't even receive one). No one ever expected them to make another round of character reworks.

[Anis5240]

7 minutes ago, Paxtonnnn said:

Jealous? Get real and get off the lawn.

[Tarnishedmax]

28 minutes ago, Lardee said:

Every character has to constantly be in enemy melee range to deal damage. This forces them to understand the specific enemy kiting pattern and bring armor/healing in case they mess up.

None of this applies to Walter. He just slows them down and never gets into their range.

I genuinely think this is a you problem at this point, you are making the game unfun to yourself by obsessing over exclusively using the slingshot + Woby for some reason instead of mix matching your entire arsenal, Walter quite literally has 0 penalties when it comes to melee combat, but the way people talk about him makes it seem like he is allergic to that, sure you lose sanity when you get hit but you could also like, not get hit, and even if you get hit you need to get hit like 8 times with armor before you ACTUALLY go insane, and at that point its not even Walter’s fault you are kinda just getting your ass kicked anyways, btw Walter can free kill nightmare creatures by pressing F, exactly like Wanda, meaning that even when you do go insane its so insignificant, and even in the middle of boss fights you can keep nightmare creatures at bay. The point im trying to get across is that exclusively using your slingshot is not only boring, wasteful and slower but also kinda like just really unnecessary? its not like the slingshot has a cooldown, and since now the handles make the slingshot shooting stupidly fast you can get free hits and take advantage of every single pause a boss or enemy makes, you are not really using Walter at his max potential but rather just playing it safe, and every character can just play it safe, every character can just craft gunpowder or darts or use a gloomerang.

Walter has been one of the most fun characters yet for me, he can handle every single situation if you are not afraid to get your hands dirty for a sec, i will agree that he needs more unique rounds and perks though, but i feel like acting like his only weapon of choice is the slingshot is just really disingenuous.

[gaymime]

51 minutes ago, Lardee said:

Klei doesn't want people spending so much time on their game. They want you to get invested in DST, finish the game and move on to their other titles.  Klei doesn't make any money if you can buy everything with spools after playing for thousands of hours.

this runs counter to all the actions klei has taken. they offer spools but not enough to get "every" item, i personally am missing like a hundred and i am about to hit 3k hours and that is WITH having outright bought 1/5th of all the purchasable items with money. they also would not continue to update the game without charging and they would not bring old watch items into circulation through pointdrops or make new items that you get from interacting with the twitch community and they certainly would not be regularly be doing bug-fixes

also you know, this is a sandbox, there is no actual "finishing" it

[Lardee]

4 minutes ago, Tarnishedmax said:

I genuinely think this is a you problem at this point, you are making the game unfun to yourself by obsessing over exclusively using the slingshot + Woby for some reason instead of mix matching your entire arsenal, Walter quite literally has 0 penalties when it comes to melee combat, but the way people talk about him makes it seem like he is allergic to that, sure you lose sanity when you get hit but you could also like, not get hit, and even if you get hit you need to get hit like 8 times with armor before you ACTUALLY go insane, and at that point its not even Walter’s fault you are kinda just getting your ass kicked anyways, btw Walter can free kill nightmare creatures by pressing F, exactly like Wanda, meaning that even when you do go insane its so insignificant, and even in the middle of boss fights you can keep nightmare creatures at bay. The point im trying to get across is that exclusively using your slingshot is not only boring, wasteful and slower but also kinda like just really unnecessary? its not like the slingshot has a cooldown, and since now the handles make the slingshot shooting stupidly fast you can get free hits and take advantage of every single pause a boss or enemy makes, you are not really using Walter at his max potential but rather just playing it safe, and every character can just play it safe, every character can just craft gunpowder or darts or use a gloomerang.

Walter has been one of the most fun characters yet for me, he can handle every single situation if you are not afraid to get your hands dirty for a sec, i will agree that he needs more unique rounds and perks though, but i feel like acting like his only weapon of choice is the slingshot is just really disingenuous.

This completely misunderstands my position on Walter.

I'm not talking about the way I want to play Walter. I'm talking about the way Klei has designed Walter to be played. 

They want you to slow the enemy down and hold F at range. They want his only weapon of choice to be the slingshot.

[Mike23Ua]

2 hours ago, Lardee said:

This completely misunderstands my position on Walter.

I'm not talking about the way I want to play Walter. I'm talking about the way Klei has designed Walter to be played. 

They want you to slow the enemy down and hold F at range. They want his only weapon of choice to be the slingshot.

Then remove his ability to use melee weapons and add a quote to him like “I didn’t spend years practicing how to become an expert at slingshots to start swinging sticks.”

While we’re at it let’s remove his ability to tame Beefalo too.. “My bond with Woby is too strong, I don’t want her getting jealous.”

Problem Solved.

[Well-met]

2 hours ago, Anis5240 said:

Jealous? Get real and get off the lawn.

The more you post, the more you are insufferably being repetitive, one-dimensional and selfish.

It's time to take a pause.

[Mysterious box]

10 hours ago, Tranoze said:

handicap them doesn't help either.

Your right the problem is skill trees are a handicap they're not fixing the issue for the majority if that's the intended goal which is my point sheesh.