Banana Rework

[GimplyGoose]

On 11/17/2024 at 1:33 AM, arubaro said:

People asking for bananas to dont grow in winter arent expecting a challenge but logic and inmersion (atleast i hope is for that)

That should be changed too tbh, makes no sense as you pointed

Bananas don't grow on bushes in the real world or in caves without access to sunlight. Stuff works differently in the constant. Growing in winter is where the line is crossed?

[arubaro]

1 minute ago, GimplyGoose said:

Bananas don't grow on bushes in the real world or in caves without access to sunlight. Stuff works differently in the constant. Growing in winter is where the line is crossed?

But this magical plant comes from a portal opened to a tropical land

[SilverSpoon]

19 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

Meatballs is mediocre.

Aside from I'm againster any nerfs that are bad for player, that's the problem.

Meatballs are mediocre, but below them are a bunch of dishes that are harder to make and have worse stats.

[grm9]

all food sources already are inferior to cooked or raw normal or monster meat if not playing long term and if playing long term, even all food in the game getting deleted won't make you feel any challenge since you got enough resources for getting revived and swapping character for refilling hunger so i don't see any point in nerfing them considering that they already suck for some and them getting deleted wouldn't change any thing for others    

[GimplyGoose]

1 minute ago, grm9 said:

all food sources are already inferior to cooked and raw normal and monster meat if not playing long term and if playing long term, you won't feel any challenge even if they'll remove all food from the game since you'd just have enough resources to swap at portal for refilling your hunger, so i don't see any point in worsening an already pointless item just for that, considering that it'll do no thing    

If you are playing with a friend, 2 Wandas can revive each other with no limit using second chance watches without ever eating. You can dismantle your ageless watches too since you won't need those with this strategy.

[arubaro]

This topic is useful to see how hard is for some people to keep track of a discussion instead of trying to push their biased simplistic ideas lacking any sense of balance.

Nobody is talking about challenge neither i think anybody thinks that nerfing any food will bring it to the table, in fact people play by default which means food and other resources for arround 6 players (that makes it funny to see people complaining about the game not being fair for 1 player).

But here we are, reading people setting simplistic statements supporting flat and basic designs because is harder to discuss ideas that wanting to be right on internet

Raw bananas should restore 100 hunger and 100 sanity because food isnt a challenge neither time acquiring resources is important and designing a game were people want to use different pieces is important 

Gladly is klei who design the game and not the community,  gladly because of that the game isnt garbage

[Bumber64]

14 hours ago, Cruvimaster said:

Jelly Salad gives 50 sanity points, you don't need to sail to Moon Quay Island or go to the caves to defeat monkeys, it's an easy farm to make and a recipe that Wigfrid eats.

The only winter that would be a problem to get food is the first one. And it's only a problem for very beginner players.

You can't get lureplants until first spring without investing in WW's skill. And you'll be planting them on boats if you don't want to tear up a bunch of turf.

Lureplants don't grow food in any winter, even after you've got them. Jelly salad spoil time is 6 days compared to banana shake's 10. And Wurt can't eat it, because it's still considered meat rather than a goodie.

(Seriously, why does gelatin spoil faster than bananas? There's even honey in it.)

10 hours ago, Frosty_Mentos said:

I'm very sure blue caps regrow in bluecap forest in winters. It's not hard to check for which cave it can be if you check many of them or when traveling in caves looking for one. I never had food issues regardless. I'm very sure that bluecap forest is probably the easiest vegetable gathering area in the game as a whole.

Even if that's true, you'll have to head over there each time to harvest more. Banana trees also regrow in caves in winter. So why would anyone go through the hassle of obtaining and fertilizing banana bushes when the trees exist?

[Cheggf]

On 11/15/2024 at 1:08 PM, Maxil20 said:

I really don’t see the problem with this, though? They’re good, yes, but keep in mind things like meat have dominated the dish picks for over a decade. The optimal items to make dishes out of haven’t really changed since DS in Beta, being meat for hunger needs via meaty stew, veggies for pierogies for health, and honey for taffy for sanity.

That's not true. There is a ton of variety in the good dishes and the sources that you get them from, especially with how many they've added. Bacon & eggs, meaty stew, beefy greens, barnacle linguine, dragonpie, honey ham, stuffed fish heads, jelly salad, creamy potato puree, surf 'n' turf, veggie burger, banana shake, salsa fresca, taffy, vegetable stinger, banana pop, nigiri, melonsicle, pierogi, flower salad, daiquiri, trail mix, froggle bunwich, honey nuggets, unagi, fishsticks, etc. And that's not even getting into recipes that are good but less useful like fish tacos, things Warly would be eating, and food that's good without being in a crock pot.

Meat, farm crops (they made these not suck), bee boxes, fish (they made these not suck), barnacles (they added these), stone fruit (they added these), lureplants (they made these not suck), cacti (they added these), trees (they added these), frogs from a rain (they added this),  banana bushes (they added these), and figs (they added these) are all great food sources, and to pretend like they aren't with suboptimal foods like meaty stew is silly. The only thing that's stayed consistent throughout the years is that meat & bee boxes are good, but 12 of the 14 good food sources are either new or were heavily changed to basically be new. 

[Cats_On_Fire]

2 hours ago, Cheggf said:

That's not true. There is a ton of variety in the good dishes and the sources that you get them from, especially with how many they've added. Bacon & eggs, meaty stew, beefy greens, barnacle linguine, dragonpie, honey ham, stuffed fish heads, jelly salad, creamy potato puree, surf 'n' turf, veggie burger, banana shake, salsa fresca, taffy, vegetable stinger, banana pop, nigiri, melonsicle, pierogi, flower salad, daiquiri, trail mix, froggle bunwich, honey nuggets, unagi, fishsticks, etc. And that's not even getting into recipes that are good but less useful like fish tacos, things Warly would be eating, and food that's good without being in a crock pot.

Meat, farm crops (they made these not suck), bee boxes, fish (they made these not suck), barnacles (they added these), stone fruit (they added these), lureplants (they made these not suck), cacti (they added these), trees (they added these), frogs from a rain (they added this),  banana bushes (they added these), and figs (they added these) are all great food sources, and to pretend like they aren't with suboptimal foods like meaty stew is silly. The only thing that's stayed consistent throughout the years is that meat & bee boxes are good, but 12 of the 14 good food sources are either new or were heavily changed to basically be new. 

Good sir as a fellow warly main I ma be real they don't think that way

[Maxil20]

2 hours ago, Cheggf said:

The only thing that's stayed consistent throughout the years is that meat & bee boxes are good, but 12 of the 14 good food sources are either new or were heavily changed to basically be new. 

But that’s my point. DST has a lot of food variety now, but the Tried and True that originated in Vanilla and really only started to be different in the Return of Them arc (which does mean it would not be a decade in this case, but ~6-7 years is still pretty good…?) are still highly effective options and are still very good at recovering all of your stats. If your goal for food in this game is to keep your stats up and don’t mind anything about how you do it, you are going to find it on-par to newer options, can be worked on easily, and work on just about every character (and this isn’t accounting for things like pig farms giving secondary drops, as well)!

I’m not saying the new methods are bad and shouldn’t use them as someone who has tried a good chunk of the dishes made with ingredients you have mentioned (heck I made a ridiculous amount of figatoni as Wanda of all characters because I thought it was funny and I love pasta IRL). I’m saying that it’s silly to say things like the new banana dishes are “overpowered” when there are a myriad of good dishes now that offer good stars, and some of those still include dishes that have been in the game since vanilla. 

31 minutes ago, Cats_On_Fire said:

Good sir as a fellow warly main I ma be real they don't think that way

A. I’m not sure what me not playing Warly has to do with this?

B. Warly can still be played in a boring way with simple methods with some creativity; alternate between eating a high hunger dish (like a meaty stew) and any other dish in the game (which can just include a second stew) to offset the hunger stat and use the most optimal/“easiest” dishes for health/sanity or use alternative methods like poultice/clothing to recoup the lost stats.

He still can be played pretty comfortably as others (especially once you snag the bin), the main difference is you bring ~1-2 extra foods to recover health and sanity stats to avoid the “higher” 4+ dish repetition penalties (and heck, once you reach the endgame you can drop most of the non-buff foods altogether since you most likely aren’t getting hit by things as often and you would have a crown at that point for sanity needs, main one you would need to cover would just be hunger oriented).

Apologizes for a bit of a ramble. Warly isn’t my preferred character choice, even if I do think his novelty as a chef is unique and his exclusive dishes are nice (even the stat dishes have some neat merits).

[Cruvimaster]

10 hours ago, Bumber64 said:

You can't get lureplants until first spring without investing in WW's skill. And you'll be planting them on boats if you don't want to tear up a bunch of turf.

Lureplants don't grow food in any winter, even after you've got them. Jelly salad spoil time is 6 days compared to banana shake's 10. And Wurt can't eat it, because it's still considered meat rather than a goodie.

(Seriously, why does gelatin spoil faster than bananas? There's even honey in it.)

Even if that's true, you'll have to head over there each time to harvest more. Banana trees also regrow in caves in winter. So why would anyone go through the hassle of obtaining and fertilizing banana bushes when the trees exist?

 

Jelly Salad is pretty broken.

Much easier to farm lureplant than banana.

Considering that Jelly Salad restores 50 sanity points (the most in the entire game), you should compare it to Ice Cream, since that's the recipe it replaced.

If we're going to talk about nerfing recipes that increase sanity, this should definitely be the first one to be nerfed, since it's infinitely easier than Ice Cream.

Of course I'm against the nerf.

 

Creamy Potato Purée, Salsa Fresca and Vegetable Stinger are much easier to produce in large quantities in a single station than Banana Shake.

This just goes to show that this persecution against Bananas is pointless.

[arubaro]

@Cruvimaster

How do you farm lureplants without waiting hundreds of days or switching to WW? Bananas are easy to farm for any moderate player

Without considering the many downsides of leafy meat like spoiling time in their recipes, not growing in winter, not giving fresh meat or needing some specific set ups so eye balls dont bother you... 

Is funny to name a food source with many downsides to defend not giving downsides to another superior food source.  Usual logic in the forum to prevent klei making a balanced game

[Cruvimaster]

19 minutes ago, arubaro said:

How do you farm lureplants without waiting hundreds of days or switch to WW? Bananas are easy to farm for any moderate player

First of all, farming Creamy Potato Purée is more efficient than lureplant and banana (considering that the latter is mainly farmed with Banana Bush) and winter is not an issue.

All 3 recipes (Creamy Potato Purée x Banana Shake x Jelly Salad) require time for a CONSISTENT base project and sailing to Moon Quay is the worst way to go.

If you want quick sanity stuff, go for Cooked Cactus Flesh or Cooked Green Cap.

Dude, I can just get SANITY and health efficiently and cheaply through Meaty Stew + tent.

Anyone complaining about +33 sanity from a banana recipe either doesn't know the game or is acting in bad faith because they don't like that item. Probably a frustrated Wigfrid main.

[arubaro]

41 minutes ago, Cruvimaster said:

First of all, farming Creamy Potato Purée is more efficient than lureplant and banana (considering that the latter is mainly farmed with Banana Bush) and winter is not an issue.

All 3 recipes (Creamy Potato Purée x Banana Shake x Jelly Salad) require time for a CONSISTENT base project and sailing to Moon Quay is the worst way to go.

If you want quick sanity stuff, go for Cooked Cactus Flesh or Cooked Green Cap.

Dude, I can just get SANITY and health efficiently and cheaply through Meaty Stew + tent.

Anyone complaining about +33 sanity from a banana recipe either doesn't know the game or is acting in bad faith because they don't like that item. Probably a frustrated Wigfrid main.

All what you mentioned only works in the short run. The longer the world the more time expend on that methods

Bananas gives access to quick ways of restore sanity. That is the problem, how it overshadows the rest of methods in the long run

No one is saying they are good in a rush or a short run, nobody is that dumb

[Frosty_Mentos]

13 hours ago, Bumber64 said:

Even if that's true, you'll have to head over there each time to harvest more. Banana trees also regrow in caves in winter. So why would anyone go through the hassle of obtaining and fertilizing banana bushes when the trees exist?

I dunno what gave you the idea that banana trees are worth the time when monkeys are guaranteed to give a banana per kill. If I'd want efficient way to get food I would head down to ruins monkey biome and shred monkeys themselves. They respawn fast, give lots of meat and fruit. If I need veggies I can dig blue mushroom forest as it's overly abundant in mushrooms that we can dig up.

Banana bushes are kinda lategame pretty commodity. I think they are trash honestly just because I have better more convenient methods of farming lots of food.

Farm plots are only more for farming food when you wanna feel fancy. They're decent but kinda garbo imo cause many veggies lack more recipes to be useful or feel unique.

[SilverSpoon]

2 hours ago, arubaro said:

@Cruvimaster

When he doesn't get a response because everyone knows he's just a reaction beggar, he goes so far as to beg for reactions through mentions...

[arubaro]

1 hour ago, SilverSpoon said:

When he doesn't get a response because everyone knows he's just a reaction beggar, he goes so far as to beg for reactions through mentions...

?? I mentioned him because im answering their post

Too much time expend of me, im glad you care so much about me (L) 

[grm9]

17 hours ago, arubaro said:

Raw bananas should restore 100 hunger and 100 sanity because food isnt a challenge neither time acquiring resources is important

if time matters for you you won't go for current state bananas, if it doesn't you could've lived even with out any food, maybe that buff would make getting them worthwhile if it'd only affect the bananas from moon quay bushes   

[cybers2001]

On 11/15/2024 at 11:45 AM, Jakepeng99 said:

I disagree.

 

Also tons of meat isnt passively grown in your garden.

I get Uber Eats deliveries of monster meat at my front door every couple days. I still mostly eat honey hams and bacon and eggs in this game.

Though I will say, banana shakes and jelly salads do trivialize my sanity needs.

[Bumber64]

13 hours ago, Cruvimaster said:

Jelly Salad is pretty broken.

Much easier to farm lureplant than banana.

Considering that Jelly Salad restores 50 sanity points (the most in the entire game), you should compare it to Ice Cream, since that's the recipe it replaced.

If we're going to talk about nerfing recipes that increase sanity, this should definitely be the first one to be nerfed, since it's infinitely easier than Ice Cream.

Of course I'm against the nerf.

 

Creamy Potato Purée, Salsa Fresca and Vegetable Stinger are much easier to produce in large quantities in a single station than Banana Shake.

This just goes to show that this persecution against Bananas is pointless.

Kind of, but not as much as bananas.

Not in winter, they aren't. You also need honey (which keeps well, but spring bee issues) instead of just twigs.

No it didn't. Ice cream was always a joke. Any number of +33 recipes were already better than a +50 requiring butter or milk (RoG). Any +33 you can acquire 2x as easily is +66, and it wasn't even close.

I already brought up the boat/turf issue. Faster spoil time than banana, which is available fresh in winter to begin with. Crops would be the replacement for jelly in winter, but for the banana.

Maybe jelly salad would be deserving of a nerf if it had a higher spoil time, grew in winter, and was available earlier. It could restore +33 (or +20) if it were available in winter, but it isn't.

No they aren't. You growing ice in your base somehow pre-rifts? Got a non-ocean water source nearby? Steady supply of hoes (and the will to use them)? Hammers for giant crops? Planning to stick around and tend?

It's not. Bananas are by far the most convenient sanity source to date. Gathering the bushes is comparable to obtaining the right crop seeds. (Those spoil, BTW.) Do I need to mention how lureplants are obtained? Lots of old stuff needs a buff. Adding even more ways to ignore those was the opposite.

[cropo]

Kind of funny to hear people asking for Bannana nerfs. I've never really used bananas, no matter how easy people claim it is to get I still think you have to go out of your way far more than any other food in order to mass-produce them. Just cook a green mushroom, why is that so hard? Or pick some cactus. Going to the monkey island and waiting, and waiting, and WAITING for banana bushes to spawn is obnoxious.


I'd rather just make Jelly Salad's and wrap them up for the occasional burst of sanity restoration, or just use RWYS farming to get mass-quantities of whatever I want. The setup fee for having a Banana empire is just too much of an ask unless you're Wormwood, so go ahead and nerf them lol would make me even less interested in getting them.

[Ginosaji]

Considering that Grass Gators exist and they drop 7! leafy meat, respawn 2 mins after they got clapped and are as easily hunted as Koalefants, it's laughable how some people discard the jelly salad argument simply coz they only rely on Lureplants to get the meat and have to have like 3 ingame years under their belt for a "decent" farm.

You can easily kill 4 Gators in a water logged biome and get out of there with 28 leafy meat. Pick clean either of the deserts and you got yourself about 10 beefy greens and with 3 bee boxes you have 9 jelly salads.

The only challenge really only is the spoilage timer on those dishes.

[arubaro]

1 hour ago, Ginosaji said:

Considering that Grass Gators exist and they drop 7! leafy meat, respawn 2 mins after they got clapped and are as easily hunted as Koalefants, it's laughable how some people discard the jelly salad argument simply coz they only rely on Lureplants to get the meat and have to have like 3 ingame years under their belt for a "decent" farm.

You can easily kill 4 Gators in a water logged biome and get out of there with 28 leafy meat. Pick clean either of the deserts and you got yourself about 10 beefy greens and with 3 bee boxes you have 9 jelly salads.

The only challenge really only is the spoilage timer on those dishes.

Right but still takes more time than simply right clicking on banana bushes instead of sailing to the closest waterlogged biome and kill them and just for such small ammout of salad... every winter i cook 40 shakes from 1 plantation

[grm9]

29 minutes ago, arubaro said:

Right but still takes more time than simply right clicking on banana bushes instead of sailing to the closest waterlogged biome and kill them and just for such small ammout of salad...

why not taking the time that was spent on getting to moon quay and getting the bushes and replanting and fertilizing them into account

[SilverSpoon]

2 hours ago, Ginosaji said:

Considering that Grass Gators exist and they drop 7! leafy meat, respawn 2 mins after they got clapped

...What!?

Next I'll try Waterlogged Base...