Ok, which dst streamer/youtuber is responsible for such a widespread delusion?

[Szczuku]

I swear wherever on the internet I seek out dst lore related stuff there's always at least a couple of people who think that the Ancient Staffwielder/Torchbearer is called Cyclum and the the Ancient Fuelweaver is possesed by Metheus. Neither of which is correct as Cyclum was never mentioned anywhere, it's just a name for that puzzle from the beggining of New Reign and AF litterally says Metheus when he dies, as in, another person, not himself in third person

Who tf is resposible for this lore confusion? As far as I know, the wiki doesn't make such a connection, the guys over there are palying it safe with assumptions. So my only idea left is that some sort of influentioal dst content creator just confidentaly spread missinformation a while back and stained the general playerbase's lore knowledge

I swear, an average player that didn't go through a 'dst lore obsession'-phase has the same understanding of the lore as a random person you'd pull from the street and force to watch all the cinematics. The game is too big, too mainstream to not have the general, concreate parts of its lore spelled out in-game.

Like, just do a ruins update where we get separate statues/murals of the Torchbearer and Staffwielder with some ancient gibberish that only Maxwell is able to decipher, outright spelling their names. Just like you did with Alter

[Anis5240]

You mean everyone doesn't know that Metheus is the torch bearer? Wow. Y'know that puzzle that had been around since 2016. And it's about the Ancient King retelling how the downfall of his civilization happened, and focused on the Ancient Queen since she's the one stopping the corruption. So of course the puzzle ought to be named after her, it's HER influence in the story.

[mkemal23]

Here's your answer: It's James Bucket. Who could have guessed it, lol.

He not only created(or at least made it popular) the whole thing but also got the ancients names wrong, lol.

[Maxposting]

For me I don't know whether to think Metheus is meant to be the Torchbearer or if Metheus is the shadow entity.

The lore drops around the name are vague enough and the Torchbearer assumption tends to rely on the external Prometheus myth.

I'd like some confirmation around the names, especially for the Staffwielder because he is still unnamed (not counting the titles) and for the actual Shadow Entity/Mirror (if they're not supposed to be Metheus)

Cyclum shouldn't be used as a name for any of the characters though. I think it was simply used to signify that Maxwell is now a part of the survival cycle? (Or something like that, the point is, it's far too disconnected from anybody for it to be used as an ubiquitous name unlike Metheus - should it be the Torchbearer's name.)

[BiddoBams]

Throwing my hat in the ring: Originally I belived the whole Metheus was the cane bearer simply because I never drew the connection that the fuel-weaver was Metheus, since in the ancient mural, you can see them raising it themselves, which always made me assume the fuel-weaver was nothing more than a thrall, and them saying they were "doing it for Metheus" was them simply saying they were doing it for the person who originally rasied them , but now I know that's not the case.

A lot of the original confusion was probably simply: Cyclum puzzles gave torch, Metheus gave cane.

[Hi.]

This might be off topic but I did some "research" and IMO I think the torch wielder got killed and corrupted by the portal turning them into FW. During the fight FW summons unseen hands which kinda look like torches. Also the torch wielder sacrifices themself to protect Metheus  forming what appears to be some kind of shield just like how FW uses a shield to protect himself, but idk I could be wrong.

[Anis5240]

30 minutes ago, Hi. said:

Metheus

Metheus was confirmed to be female, lol. So the name is not referring to FW.

Also, yes while it sounds cheesy as hell, but "Metheus is here" can be formed from the initials of the Axiom Visus video's description. Meanwhile, we only see Charlie there and guess what she held in that video? The Tragic Torch. Which was the Ancient Queen's.

So problem solved, Metheus is the Ancient Queen.

[Hi.]

9 hours ago, Anis5240 said:

You mean everyone doesn't know that Metheus is the torch bearer

I thought Metheus was the person with the cane? I'm so confused lol

[Cheggf]

I have no idea about any lore stuff but I agree with you because you're blaming YouTubers for spreading misinformation. YouTubers love doing that, and I love blaming them for things, and you're blaming them for things, so I love you!

[Anis5240]

11 minutes ago, Hi. said:

thought Metheus was the person with the cane

No, it's not. We don't know what's the cane bearer's name. But it is speculated anyway that Fuelweaver was the Ancient King, considering he talked about his kingdom and such.

Cyclum means 'cycle' in Latin, and that comic talked about how Maxwell is now part of the Constant where he gotta do the grindy survival life, just like the others he had lured into the world.

[Maxposting]

57 minutes ago, Anis5240 said:

Meanwhile, we only see Charlie

Yes, however you could also make a point for the Shadow Entity, as They are part of Charlie.

Spoiler

It is slightly more convoluted, but I just don't follow the whole "Torchbearer is a part of Charlie" thing because it requires the Torchbearer to be an entirely passive "non-character" for the rest of time for Charlie to keep functioning as a Shadow Queen, unless it is going to be a plot in the future, where she has to shatter and expunge the Torchbearer (who ends up betraying her and the entity) from herself. I very much doubt that this plot is actually planned out, and if it is, bravo Klei. 

(The Torchbearer back then was clearly against Shadows, it doesn't make sense for them to now just be "ok" and complacent with the shadow rifts, unless they are just completely pacified into just a shadow of themselves, aka, once again, a non-character)

I do agree it's baseless to call the Staffwielder Metheus though, because I think it's safe to assume he is the Fuelweaver, and for him to refer to himself is very unnatural and there's the fact they have different genders.

[Well-met]

DST's mysteries have been taking so many years to unfold that I must tip my hat off to anyone who still tries to care today. I don't remember anything from this.

[DegenerateFurry]

It's pretty clear that Metheus is the torchbearer. Not only is there an etymological connection there (Metheus <- Prometheus, Tragic Torch = fire), but the murals pretty clearly depict the cane-wielder summoning the spooky skeleton, and the fact that Fuelweaver talks about Metheus in the third person (as others have pointed out) would make it weird if Fuelweaver was Metheus. Also, Fuelweaver's got a general vibe of "I will not let you repeat my mistakes" to his dialogue, which'd be weird for the one who fought against the darkness, but would make total sense for the dude who used it and kept the portal open only to end up causing the downfall of his people and regretting his actions.

What isn't clear is why Metheus is Charlie's shadow now. That's definitely a curveball. My theory's that after They (Tenebrau?) rejected Charlie in that Terrors Below short where she restored the portal, she may be following her own agenda that's more in line with what Metheus wants. 

[Reiko24]

53 minutes ago, DegenerateFurry said:

It's pretty clear that Metheus is the torchbearer. Not only is there an etymological connection there (Metheus <- Prometheus, Tragic Torch = fire), but the murals pretty clearly depict the cane-wielder summoning the spooky skeleton, and the fact that Fuelweaver talks about Metheus in the third person (as others have pointed out) would make it weird if Fuelweaver was Metheus. Also, Fuelweaver's got a general vibe of "I will not let you repeat my mistakes" to his dialogue, which'd be weird for the one who fought against the darkness, but would make total sense for the dude who used it and kept the portal open only to end up causing the downfall of his people and regretting his actions.

What isn't clear is why Metheus is Charlie's shadow now. That's definitely a curveball. My theory's that after They (Tenebrau?) rejected Charlie in that Terrors Below short where she restored the portal, she may be following her own agenda that's more in line with what Metheus wants. 

u think Tenebrau rejected her? Wasn't it more like her plan failed and they didn't regain their full power like they wanted?

Then she contacted Maxwell because they need the residual power within him and the Codex Umbra I guess?

[Anis5240]

54 minutes ago, Reiko24 said:

Then she contacted Maxwell because they need the residual power within him and the Codex Umbra I guess?

To be honest, we still don't know what's Klei planning to go with the lore. But yeah, this whole Metheus debacle should've been settled by now.

[DegenerateFurry]

2 hours ago, Reiko24 said:

u think Tenebrau rejected her? Wasn't it more like her plan failed and they didn't regain their full power like they wanted?

Then she contacted Maxwell because they need the residual power within him and the Codex Umbra I guess?

In this short, the eye (which people are speculating is called Tenebrau, and it definitely represents Them at least) appears in the portal. Charlie is initially thrilled, but after it looks at her, it vanishes and she scowls, and the portal powers down. I see that as her being rejected by it for some reason. Then she goes off to scheme with Maxwell about something.

[Anis5240]

10 minutes ago, DegenerateFurry said:

Charlie is initially thrilled, but after it looks at her, it vanishes and she scowls, and the portal powers down. I see that as her being rejected by it for some reason.

I think her efforts probably weren't enough as opposed of the portal rejecting her. The look at the eye kinda shakes a bit. Charlie probably now wants Maxwell because of the Codex Umbra, seeing that the book also contained its powers. I suppose the book would be important to empower the eye more.

[DegenerateFurry]

14 minutes ago, Anis5240 said:

I think her efforts probably weren't enough as opposed of the portal rejecting her. The look at the eye kinda shakes a bit. Charlie probably now wants Maxwell because of the Codex Umbra, seeing that the book also contained its powers. I suppose the book would be important to empower the eye more.

I feel like either interpretation could work, we'll have to wait and see.

[Bumber64]

Tenebrau: Tenebro or Tenebruh?

[PunkShark]

Fuelweaver as far as we know does not have have a name or haven't been given a name. But he was the ancient king who put the downfall on their civilization by breaking the balance of the gateway between the 2 powers of shadow and light, overusing the fuel to create whatever he wanted for his people after his superiority complex and thus unleashing "Tenebrau" upon themseves. His partner Metheus, the people and the city would be in utter ruins while the king remained. He finds himself 100% guilty because of it and wants to stop anyone from meddling with the gateway for not giving them the same fate as he once did to his people and his partner. How do we know he survived? Well someone had to write those murals of the aftermath since they're all dead or converted. But not the king, He's in sorrow on his throne in the last mural. He would use the skeletal host that he once found/created to preserve himself as a guardian for the gateway not to protect it but to protect others.

Regarding the name "Metheus" wether or not being the shadow eye. It's the ancient torchbearer. it's gotta be. Every hint and clue in the past and the recent bits of lore with this hallowed nights make too much sense.

First, the mirror. The mirror in the stageplay was first thought to be Them. But looking at it. It makes much more sense for it to be Metheus, the torchbearer.
One thing that was always confusing about the stageplay is that Charlie never once acknowledged her 2nd half. The conclusion was faulty memory or throwing us off for the sake of her arguement. But looking at the mirror as the torch-bearer. things start to make a little more sense. The mirror resurrects the doll and it can "feel what it feels". the king kept the mirror hidden, and apparently the king didn't honor his part of the agreement. Which makes me think Maxwell actually got his magician powers from Metheus, and he made a deal with Metheus in favor of a vessel. Charlie's name is scrawled out in his secret room and something is trying to get out of his mind in that scene. "Let me in" could be in reference to Metheus plaguing Maxwell and wanting to be let out to take over Charlie. This could potentially also mean the umbra *was* Metheus or at least had a connection to Metheus hence the M and that's why he could get in contact with her.

The mirror as a concept is in itself a reflection of Charlie. Or more of a shadow, as we saw in the latest short and comic. Which gives even more proof that the mirror is Metheus.
Metheus was also confirmed to be female by Klei. Want more? The concept art for the costumes didn't have a mirror, but another entity titled as "Shadow/Meth" which could've just been an early draft of the mirror. Axium visus short has hidden text of "Metheus is here"  which again, makes a lot more sense than the shadow eye in this case.

[Szczuku]

37 minutes ago, PunkShark said:

(snip)

Agree with most but I don't think the Ancient Staffwielder became the shadow atrium on purpose.

Aside from them dropping it, there's no connection but I've always assumed that the shadow pieces were sort of the 'voices in the head' or secret advisors of the Ancient King, having entered through the gateway when nightmare fuel was being used more and more. I'd explain why the clockworks are shaped like them (yes, even though damaged clockwork bishop is apparently non-canon) and it'd work as a nice bit of narrative. Lvl 1 shadow pieces, relatively non-hostile looking, are being nice to the staffwielder and convience him to make the city fuel-relient only to in the end reveal their true, lvl3 forms and roles as the Tenebrau's servents and banish the king into the shadow atrium.

As for the skeleton which becomes AF's vessel: I really think it's just a gameplay limitation. I see no reason other than 'We're not making 2000+ sprites for ressurected skeleton" why other skeleton forms and other vessel-like thingies can't be used to summon AF

[Cassielu]

Before someone here is responsible for another widespread delusion. I'd like to point out that tenebrau/tenebrous is basically dark/darkness in Latin, and that it doesn't use an initial capitalization to indicate that it's a name.

"tenebrous provider" might be a term for some character, but not necessarily that shadow eye.

[PunkShark]

22 minutes ago, Cassielu said:

Before someone here is responsible for another widespread delusion. I'd like to point out that tenebrau/tenebrous is basically dark/darkness in Latin, and that it doesn't use an initial capitalization to indicate that it's a name.

"tenebrous provider" might be a term for some character, but not necessarily that shadow eye...

Yes and no. While Tenebrous which is latin for darkness yes is not capitalized. "Tenebrau" is not an adjective however. Which begs the question if it's considered to be a name in this case. There's Tenebrous/tenebrae which is, yes, darkness. But Tene*brau* is not. I agree it is isn't enough proof to be considered a name. Although when shadow aligned the masks will be named "Herald of Tenebrau" capitalized but that could just be because it has to be as everything else is in the game. But this is given to us for a reason i'd like to believe. A herald is a signal or a forecoming of smth happening. In this case, they're a signal coming from Tenebrau. It is smth to think about. It is possible Tenebrau is a mixture of the 2 words in 1. Thus giving us Tenebrau

[Anis5240]

47 minutes ago, Cassielu said:

it doesn't use an initial capitalization to indicate that it's a name.

Ahem, I see that no one reads Wilson's quote for the new playbill.

"Brought to you by the Heralds of Tenebrau."

[Cassielu]

1 hour ago, Anis5240 said:

"Brought to you by the Heralds of Tenebrau."

it's capitalized only in "Heralds of Tenebrau"