Should the gloomerang be nerfed?

[Mysterious box]

I'm wondering if the gloomerang was a step too far but what do you all think?

For added context for those who can't use the beta it's a fast, high damage, ranged weapon with a low resource cost.

[Wormboi]

Im just glad that ranged weapons are now actually viable, these days.

[Maxil20]

Voted for unsure, personally. If I really had to do a nerf, cutting it to 100 uses (from 150) would be what I would do.

I personally don’t mind ranged combat becoming more of an emphasis when it was Basically useless for ~10 years (you are not going to convince me someone realistically used items like blowdarts as a main weapon as someone who tried this). I like the idea of it having more of an emphasis compared to melee as it encourages different styles of play that can be potentially competitive, though with lower efficiency compared to melee weapons. 

[IAmAFurrz]

25 minutes ago, Wormboi said:

Im just glad that ranged weapons are now actually viable, these days.

only took until post rift

[Cruvimaster]

23 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

I'm wondering if the gloomerang was a step too far but what do you all think?

For added context for those who can't use the beta it's a fast, high damage, ranged weapon with a low resource cost.

The eventual nerf will only make players lose interest and become just one of many items that just take up space in the game.

Of all the items that Klei added, how many do people actually use and how often?

How many people ACTUALLY use these items (?): Brightshade Bomb, Brightshade Shoevel, Ice Crystaleyezer Kit, Howlitzer (without varg farming), Brightshade Armor, Void Robe, W.A.R.B.I.S. Armor and W.A.R.B.I.S. Head Gear.

And even though W.A.R.B.I.S. are very good, I think it's a minority that uses them. And that goes for all the items mentioned.

[IAmAFurrz]

1 minute ago, Maxil20 said:

it was Basically useless for ~10 years (you are not going to convince me someone realistically used items like blowdarts as a main weapon as someone who tried this)

one look at walter and you can see the '**** you' they did for his ENTIRE kit... it is beyond awful

[Cruvimaster]

Of all the items added, the ones I really see having a lot of use are: Polar Bearger Bin (best item), Brightshade Helm, Brightshade Sword, Brightshade Staff, Brightshade Smasher, Umbralla, Void Cowl, Shadow Reaper and Embalming Spritz.

And Beefalo's new saddle is much more broken than this boomerang, by the way.

[Maxil20]

2 minutes ago, IAmAFurrz said:

one look at walter and you can see the '**** you' they did for his ENTIRE kit... it is beyond awful

You can certainly tell they played it way too safe for Walter’s kit. I don’t mind the concept of the sling/rounds, but they are very undertuned. I imagine they did it out of worry of eclipsing melee weapons, but it really hurts the character in it’s entirety when one of his main gimmicks is the definition of extremely situational.

[Cruvimaster]

So 50% or more of the stuff Klei adds ends up being of little practical use to anyone. It remains to be seen whether Klei wants to make the gloomerang just another useless thing in the game.

But perhaps the better question is: should Klei nerf Gloomerang to the point where only Wolfgang players can use it?

[Maxil20]

2 minutes ago, Cruvimaster said:

So 50% or more of the stuff Klei adds ends up being of little practical use to anyone.

I don’t really think this is inherently an issue with the items. People just get comfy with the “meta” items and roll with them.

Personally in that list, the main items I actually think are truly underpowered are the brightshade husk (it’s secondary ability is very situational, especially compared to how helpful the void robe’s is), and the WARBIS gear (not inherently with it’s gimmick, just how the mechanics of said gimmick work…). The other items are niche, but do their job as you would expect and aren’t inherently bad at it.

 

[Ohan]

Its 2024 nobody on the forums is going to vote to nerf anything  maxwell refresh was the beginning of the end. 
 

everything has to be cheap, powerful with minimal to no drawbacks or its considered useless. 

[cybers2001]

20 minutes ago, Cruvimaster said:

The eventual nerf will only make players lose interest and become just one of many items that just take up space in the game.

Of all the items that Klei added, how many do people actually use and how often?

How many people ACTUALLY use these items (?): Brightshade Bomb, Brightshade Shoevel, Ice Crystaleyezer Kit, Howlitzer (without varg farming), Brightshade Armor, Void Robe, W.A.R.B.I.S. Armor and W.A.R.B.I.S. Head Gear.

And even though W.A.R.B.I.S. are very good, I think it's a minority that uses them. And that goes for all the items mentioned.

Warbis armor is my default armor for several characters. I've used Void robes when clearing ruins if I want to be Wolfgang with an enlightened crown.

Howlitzer is also nice for Winona to aggro mobs for her catapults, or for aggroing goats/koalaphants/Mctusk.

[Wormboi]

8 minutes ago, Ohan said:

everything has to be cheap, powerful with minimal to no drawbacks or its considered useless. 

I guess the drawback is to these things is that there endgame items so you have play 100+ hours to get them or just turn on the rifts from the start.

(pretty much anything that is powerful these days is gated behind endgame content)

[Cruvimaster]

1 minute ago, cybers2001 said:

I actually use void robes and Warbis armor frequently. Howlitzer is also nice for Winona to aggro mobs for her catapults, or for aggroing goats/koalaphants/Mctusk.

The Ice Staff and Brightshade Staff perform this function for the Howlitzer. I know that of all the items there will always be some player who uses them, but the point is that they are a minority. That is the point of the item list.

[cybers2001]

5 minutes ago, Cruvimaster said:

The Ice Staff and Brightshade Staff perform this function for the Howlitzer. I know that of all the items there will always be some player who uses them, but the point is that they are a minority. That is the point of the item list.

Another use for Howlitzer is an easy way to trigger the stun on the lunar varg and armored bearger, which requires planar damage. Brightshade staff tends to be too slow to hit the window.

Just because you don't use them, anyone who does is automatically in the minority? I know plenty of people that like the new armors for their repairability.

[Mike23Ua]

1 minute ago, cybers2001 said:

Another use for Howlitzer is an easy way to trigger the stun on the lunar varg and armored bearger, which requires planar damage. Brightshade staff tends to be too slow to hit the window.

Yeah, but like I said in another post, the entire point of Lunar Rifts & Shadow Rifts and being able to alliance with one side was so the player would have weapons, tools, armors etc that made dealing with the opposite side easier.

So for Lunar Rift mobs to be weak against their own Lunar Rift weapons and armors doesn’t make any sense.. like at all…

The newly added Gloomerang should be Superior at fighting Lunar Rift Stuff than the Brightshade Staff, MEANWHILE, the Brightshade Staff should help with Shadow Rift stuff.

And if Klei wants a few ideas…

Lunar Armor should give off the Spikey Brightshade AoE attack (which should help with dealing with the new giant worm found only in caves) 

Brightshade staff should be able to bounce between a bounce of tools & Items to locate hiding “Mimics”

I mean the foundation to make choosing a Side actually MATTER is staring them right in the face…

[Cruvimaster]

9 minutes ago, cybers2001 said:

Another use for Howlitzer is an easy way to trigger the stun on the lunar varg and armored bearger, which requires planar damage. Brightshade staff tends to be too slow to hit the window.

Just because you don't use them, anyone who does is automatically in the minority? I know plenty of people that like the new armors for their repairability.

I brought a bunch of items and you focused on 3. Very good overview.

[Mysterious box]

39 minutes ago, Cruvimaster said:

The eventual nerf will only make players lose interest and become just one of many items that just take up space in the game.

Of all the items that Klei added, how many do people actually use and how often?

How many people ACTUALLY use these items (?): Brightshade Bomb, Brightshade Shoevel, Ice Crystaleyezer Kit, Howlitzer (without varg farming), Brightshade Armor, Void Robe, W.A.R.B.I.S. Armor and W.A.R.B.I.S. Head Gear.

And even though W.A.R.B.I.S. are very good, I think it's a minority that uses them. And that goes for all the items mentioned.

I don't disagree it's why I also voted unsure but at the same time I still think it's currently perhaps over correcting a bit to much for that aspect. I think it can be usable without being just straight up better than melee combat even if I don't know how to strike that balance personally.

As it stands we're just racing to the bottom with how powerful everything is becoming.

[chirsg]

If a nerf were applied, you have to think what would be taken away, and still have the gloomerang remain a good weapon to have. 

I haven't been playing the beta for a while because it just stresses me out, but I've come close to concluding that it's better all round over the brightshade staff. 

even if you gave the gloomerang 50 uses, it would still be so good that you'd argue which would be better, gloom or staff. 

 

I think that as a baseline, a pretty safe bet is to compare how brightshade staff and gloomerang perform side by side. I'd test it myself, but the beta is giving me hives. 
It takes about 1.1- 1.5 brightshade staves to exterminate brightshades. having something a similar sort of limit for the gloomerang would be sensible. 

 

Failing that, if it must remain 150 uses, just lock it behind a "Corrupted" spark ark.

[Mysterious box]

44 minutes ago, IAmAFurrz said:

one look at walter and you can see the '**** you' they did for his ENTIRE kit... it is beyond awful

See like the issue is his kit isn't awful it's just balanced some of the stuff he offers is actually really good but it's overshadowed by power creep. Willow is actually the perfect example of this when her refresh came out most people thought it was really good and powerful some even complaining that she was stepping on Wendy's toes a bit too much. However as time past and power creep ramped up like crazy she became a "bad" character with a "bad" refresh only to become "good" after she got a bunch of overpowered abilities that bypassed some of what used to be end game loot.

[Cruvimaster]

6 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

I don't disagree it's why I also voted unsure but at the same time I still think it's currently perhaps over correcting a bit to much for that aspect. I think it can be usable without being just straight up better than melee combat even if I don't know how to strike that balance personally.

The most powerful weapon in the game is the hambat. Celestial and AFW fall short of it. Klei's biggest challenge was getting players interested in other weapons. Then came the planar system and weapons that can be repaired. I don't see the nerf discouraging Wolfgang, but only the other characters. Maybe I'm wrong. Let it happen...

[Ohan]

53 minutes ago, Cruvimaster said:

How many people ACTUALLY use these items (?): Brightshade Bomb, Brightshade Shoevel, Ice Crystaleyezer Kit, Howlitzer (without varg farming), Brightshade Armor, Void Robe, W.A.R.B.I.S. Armor and W.A.R.B.I.S. Head Gear.

I always bring a stack of BS bombs into caves because 5 of them can clear an entire worm wave in seconds. I also use it against mutant Varg to one-shot grouped up hounds. 

Idk why you wouldnt switch to the BS shoevel in the late game if ur farming? Dig up weeds and continue hoeing the soil with 1 tool. Dont need to bother with gold or twigs. 

I have 3 ice crystaleyezers covering my base and i live in it with a sunfish on me in the summers. If u have the fish its great imo. Even just for decor value, not watching all ur plants wilt and turn ugly is really nice. + ofcourse ice, no wildfires, moist farms etc. 

BS armor is for when u need extra protection vs lunar enemies, combined with the helmet. Like when i was new to the zombie bosses. 

Void robe lets u use enlightened crown vs everything. (And shadow defense) I dont use it though because i think its ugly 

 

Warbis armor is my prefered armor combined with enlightened crown when im not playing wormwood. 

Warbis helmet ive never really used because i love enlightened crown. But i imagine its great for people who do not want to maintain sanity for the crown and are fighting toad or dfly for example. 
 

——

the tracking/buff duration of warbis stuff could be improved though 

[Mysterious box]

2 minutes ago, Cruvimaster said:

The most powerful weapon in the game is the hambat. Celestial and AFW fall short of it. Klei's biggest challenge was getting players interested in other weapons. Then came the planar system and weapons that can be repaired. I don't see the nerf discouraging Wolfgang, but only the other characters. Maybe I'm wrong. Let it happen...

I haven't even decided on how they should nerf it how are we so certain only Wolfgang would be effected

[Cruvimaster]

4 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

I haven't even decided on how they should nerf it how are we so certain only Wolfgang would be effected

My thoughts are if someone asks for a 1x nerf and the developers give it 3x. I wouldn't like the nerf, but if it comes that's ok.

[IAmAFurrz]

54 minutes ago, Maxil20 said:

I imagine they did it out of worry of eclipsing melee weapons, but it really hurts the character in it’s entirety when one of his main gimmicks is the definition of extremely situational.

and now they just goin ham lmao