Should the gloomerang be nerfed?

[Mysterious box]

4 minutes ago, Frosty_Mentos said:

Cheaper, lategame, less effort and more practical. As so as gloomerang supposed to be, but it's weaker in comparison due to components used and damage output given.

It's only cheaper if you ignore the costs which any player no playing on creative mode cannot this is the reason I made the blowdart comparison as hound teeth are harder to get than repair kits. I feel like they need to either rebalance the weapon or rebalance how enemies interact with ranged combat being late game shouldn't mean there should be little to no risks or costs.

[ImDaMisterL]

Hey everyone, remember to follow our Community Guidelines and to not make things personal. Take the high road when posting, and keep your messages respectful and constructive. Thank you for understanding.

[00petar00]

45 minutes ago, Frosty_Mentos said:

Remain miserable and beg more I guess.

It is funny that some people want activating rifts to be a trap for players without any benefits and only punishment. Surface rifts is still debatable If they are worth activating but at least they have howlitzer, beargear bin, cheap armor/weapon to repair while caves had nothing. Now we finally have a reason to activate  cave rifts and they want it nerfed, for anyone not taming a beefalo gloomerang is going to decide whether they activate rifts or not.

45 minutes ago, Frosty_Mentos said:

Cheaper, lategame, less effort and more practical. As so as gloomerang supposed to be, but it's weaker in comparison due to components used and damage output given.

I know that klei wants to make bosses before rift keep their difficulty but this has been a fail since brightshade sword and howlitzer were added. Brightshade sword is cheap to repair while howlitzer requires grinding but makes almost every boss easy to kill. This makes me question planar damage and defense when they could've just increased damage for these new items without making it too complicated. A lot of players like seeing progress and them melting bosses before rift would be a reason to activate rifts which are not very worthwhile currently.
 

The biggest reason for activating rifts is running out of stuff to do in the game which isn't good.

[Mysterious box]

10 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

The biggest reason for activating rifts is running out of stuff to do in the game which isn't good.

Personally I see the reason being fun new content I really freaking love the mimic for example and kind of wish it was in the early game.

[00petar00]

5 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Personally I see the reason being fun new content I really freaking love the mimic for example and kind of wish it was in the early game.

I understand that but a lot of us megabasers or endless players put deep thought into it but still give in to other endless players that want to experience the content and you can't blame other players that want to activate the rifts, the bigger issue is that we can't turn them off at all.

I also want to experience new content and not miss out on years worth of updates but I would not activate surface rifts If it was up to me as brightshades are such a big chore that I don't believe it is worth still worth doing. Cave rifts after this update with maul,bloomerang and beefalo stuff are finally worth activating but before this beta I have been having discussions with players to change their mind with activating cave rifts too soon and we would wait for a while before doing so.

[Mysterious box]

5 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

I understand that but a lot of us megabasers or endless players put deep thought into it but still give in to other endless players that want to experience the content and you can't blame other players that want to activate the rifts, the bigger issue is that we can't turn them off at all.

I also want to experience new content and not miss out on years worth of updates but I would not activate surface rifts If it was up to me as brightshades are such a big chore that I don't believe it is worth still worth doing. Cave rifts after this update with maul,bloomerang and beefalo stuff are finally worth activating but before this beta I have been having discussions with players to change their mind with activating cave rifts too soon and we would wait for a while before doing so.

I know this is gonna be annoying since again as you mentioned we already talked at great length on the whole settings debate but I think the best solution would still be for klei to add a additional setting that can be activated that makes player made structures indestructible by non players you've said your part of a big community and I imagine that people willing to join a endless server probably wouldn't mind activating that setting as it likely wouldn't meaningfully restrict how they experience content on those servers.

[Gashzer]

52 minutes ago, ImDaMisterL said:

Hey everyone, remember to follow our Community Guidelines and to not make things personal. Take the high road when posting, and keep your messages respectful and constructive. Thank you for understanding.

The low road is so much more fun tho 

[Well-met]

would need a video of the weapon in action

[Arcwell]

5 hours ago, Well-met said:

would need a video of the weapon in action

Here's some examples

Bee Queen:

Spoiler

Celestial Champion (by far its best matchup):

Spoiler

Dragonfly:

Spoiler

[Wormboi]

32 minutes ago, Arcwell said:

Here's some examples

Bee Queen:

  Hide contents

 

Celestial Champion (by far its best matchup):

  Hide contents

 

Dragonfly:

  Reveal hidden contents

Side note: I feel like the gloomerang should have a sound effect when thrown it feels weird having it be silent.

[cropo]

Given that it is the Don't Starve equivalent to a machine gun I actually don't want it to have a sound effect blurting out all the time.

[Cruvimaster]

20 hours ago, Arcwell said:

Here's some examples

From the examples shown, I'm clearly sure that this item isn't as good as people are saying. It doesn't make any sense to talk about a nerf.

The combat time wasn't that good in any of the fights.

Dragonfly was a joke with so many flutes.

Bee Queen is defeated much more easily and safely with Armored Bearger, Wickerbottom (tentacles), Maxwell (Shadow Prison), Wolfgang (few flutes and hambat), Winona (catapults) and Wendy.

Celestial Champion is currently synonymous with always using Winona for farming. There's nothing more broken than her.

[cropo]

The gloomerang is not just helpful against bosses, it is helpful against anything ine game.  There isn't a single enemy in the game who can really deal with this weapon besides a clockwork bishop who will probably get to retaliate at least once before it dies.

It also indirectly buffs MAxwell even further, as now he has an item to fall on with shadow prison. It isn't about killtime, it's about the ease-of-access to a safe combat style that requires no risk or effort on the player's part. 

[Cruvimaster]

13 minutes ago, cropo said:

It isn't about killtime, it's about the ease-of-access to a safe combat style that requires no risk or effort on the player's part. 

I even thought you were talking about Wolfgang, special with Warly's recipe. Then I read it again and saw that it wasn't that.

[cropo]

3 minutes ago, Cruvimaster said:

I even thought you were talking about Wolfgang, special with Warly's recipe. Then I read it again and saw that it wasn't that.

You still have to put yourself in harms way to use Wolfgang? 

It's true that you can achieve a higher damage total(actually, possibly not.) with other combinations and characters. What the Gloomerang does is offer a totally safe way to do very reasonable damage. Unless you're a speedrunner, the loss in damage is barely even impactful at all, and you could argue that you have MORE chances to do damage because you don't have to spend nearly as much time dodging and dealing with a bosses mechanics.

Or again, any enemy in the game besides maybe a clockwork bishop and one or two others I can't think of. This weapon is just too good.

[Cruvimaster]

But Klei could include a new material to make Gloomerang: Shadow Thurible. So it would be an item that can only be obtained by defeating AFW.

1 minute ago, cropo said:

Or again, any enemy in the game besides maybe a clockwork bishop and one or two others I can't think of. This weapon is just too good.

Ok. Let's see if the developers agree with you in the next update and make the weapon unusable for all characters except Wolfgang.

We will probably have the answer this Thursday.

4 minutes ago, cropo said:

You still have to put yourself in harms way to use Wolfgang? 

I just think it's a huge inconsistency for the forum to talk about balance with Winona, Wolfgang and Maxwell. Do they pretend they don't exist?

[Arcwell]

4 hours ago, cropo said:

What the Gloomerang does is offer a totally safe way to do very reasonable damage.

If you watched the clips I posted earlier you'd know it's not totally safe. The least amount of damage I took in any of those fights was 54. The most was 94.

4 hours ago, cropo said:

The gloomerang is not just helpful against bosses, it is helpful against anything ine game.  There isn't a single enemy in the game who can really deal with this weapon besides a clockwork bishop who will probably get to retaliate at least once before it dies.

In a similar sense it is not totally safe against mobs either.

• You can still get ganged up on by hounds / splumonkeys / nightmares
• Enemies can still attack you by surprise if they're in the darkness and you don't see them
• Pirate raids can still steal from you
• Terrorbeaks can still troll you by teleporting on top of you
• Rooks can still charge at you
• Spiders can still jump at you
• Spitters, Shattered spiders, Ewecus and Mactusk can still shoot you
• Sentrypede can still roll at you

Just because it makes avoiding damage easier does not mean it is so broken that you cannot take damage at all.

[arubaro]

5 hours ago, Cruvimaster said:

I even thought you were talking about Wolfgang, special with Warly's recipe. Then I read it again and saw that it wasn't that.

So because klei made a mistake adding imba stuff now is okey to add weapons that make enemies incapable of hitting you?

[cropo]

2 hours ago, Arcwell said:

• You can still get ganged up on by hounds / splumonkeys / nightmares
• Enemies can still attack you by surprise if they're in the darkness and you don't see them
• Pirate raids can still steal from you
• Terrorbeaks can still troll you by teleporting on top of you
• Rooks can still charge at you
• Spiders can still jump at you
• Spitters, Shattered spiders, Ewecus and Mactusk can still shoot you
• Sentrypede can still roll at you

All of these are either wrong, or something a player at rifts-level content would never fall victim to.

Like, surprise you by attacking you in the darkness if you don't see them? Huh? So like if you have literally no light at all and Charlie is about you kill you, you could be attacked by a monster? Is that what that means? 
How can you get ganged up on by hounds and monkeys? You just kite them at an extended distance, in fact you don't have to deal with the awkward sequence-breaking barks the hounds do which makes melee kiting monumentally difficult and take more time.  We already have the howitzer to demonstrate how possible this is, having to do it for slightly longer with a free option instead barely makes a difference.
Pirates can steal from you, but you'd pretty much be able to kill them before they could run with your loot. I guess technically, if you're stranded on a tiny boat the gloomerang isn't king, one of the least played sections of the game makes the gloomerangs perfromance less than ideal, sure.

Mac Tusk can be attacked whenever he does his aggro animation to stunlock him to death, that's how I always kill them with pre-rift gear. Doing it from range will just keep you safe from a hound attack or two.
Sentrypedes are a mob that you're not intended to fight, it's more of an obstacle than a genuine enemy. They break kiting rules and summoning them is a fail-condition of the Archives. Although the Gloomerang would make dealing with them quite trivial, since you wouldn't need to wait for a good time to actually do damage and can just lay on the pressure 24/7/


Even in these (EXTREMELY fringe) situations where the Gloomerang might not be the best weapon, it still completely dominates the competition on almost any metric besides bosses you can face-tank, which are getting rarer and rarer with each new release and rework.

 

[Mr Giggio]

On 8/25/2024 at 3:12 PM, Cruvimaster said:

The eventual nerf will only make players lose interest and become just one of many items that just take up space in the game.

 

And we have a gigaton of those already. Making it be part of the popular ones needs it to have a reason why. The boomerang is just fine, u end up landing way more damage in a lot other ways, even in the way it is right now the use will be niche. Agreed.

 

On 8/25/2024 at 3:16 PM, Cruvimaster said:

And Beefalo's new saddle is much more broken than this boomerang, by the way.

Also true. big sanity chars can stun dfly with the new saddle + celestial crown [Wx one sanity circuit, Wicker] without eating anything to recover. Boof way more bulky to fight bosses now, u can tank without concerning as much. 

12 hours ago, Cruvimaster said:

Bee Queen is defeated much more easily and safely with Armored Bearger, Wickerbottom (tentacles), Maxwell (Shadow Prison), Wolfgang (few flutes and hambat), Winona (catapults) and Wendy

Willow, Webber crowd, Wurt crowd, Moose stomp attacks, Wx can also kite and flute, Wanda can also kite and flute  and when u actually want to do it with any character u can just firestaff/waterbaloon 4 stacks of sapplings 

11 hours ago, cropo said:

There isn't a single enemy in the game who can really deal with this weapon besides a clockwork bishop who will probably get to retaliate at least once before it dies.

So it is bone armor for the same reason u can smoke a bishop without even activating a rift.

[cropo]

55 minutes ago, Mr Giggio said:

So it is bone armor for the same reason u can smoke a bishop without even activating a rift.

I don't really understand what you're saying here, but Bone Armor when it was first released was a post-game armor and it only blocks one hit. It is good on a select few bosses and helps here and there, but it has serious limitations that one would need to consider.

 

An infinite blowdart that can reach near the same damage as a normal blowdart that works on almost every encounter in the game versus an armor that blocks one hit every 5 seconds are hardly comparable.

[Mr Giggio]

24 minutes ago, cropo said:

I don't really understand what you're saying here, but Bone Armor when it was first released was a post-game armor and it only blocks one hit. It is good on a select few bosses and helps here and there, but it has serious limitations that one would need to consider.

Yeah that speaks for itself about ur perspective in the game I see no need to go further

[Arcwell]

12 minutes ago, cropo said:

An infinite blowdart that can reach near the same damage as a normal blowdart that works on almost every encounter in the game versus an armor that blocks one hit every 5 seconds are hardly comparable.

In an ideal situation (max range) against a non-lunar enemy the Gloomerang will deal 65.69 damage (28.9 * 1.1 physical + 28.9 + 5 planar). That gets lower as as the enemy approaches you, which most enemies do. I would not call that anywhere near the damage of a blowdart (100).

[cropo]

7 minutes ago, Arcwell said:

In an ideal situation (max range) against a non-lunar enemy the Gloomerang will deal 65.69 damage (28.9 * 1.1 physical + 28.9 + 5 planar). That gets lower as as the enemy approaches you, which most enemies do. I would not call that anywhere near the damage of a blowdart (100).

I'm pretty sure it can reach 89 damage, or was I mistaken?

[Arcwell]

1 minute ago, cropo said:

I'm pretty sure it can reach 89 damage, or was I mistaken?

Only against lunar-aligned mobs (i.e. Celestial Champion and Crab King), since it gets a 1.25x damage modifier against them.

Here's some examples:
non-aligned player w/gloomerang and void cowl vs. CC: ((28.9 * 1.1 physical + 28.9 + 5 planar) * 1.25) = 82.1125 damage
shadow-aligned player w/gloomerang and void cowl vs. CC: ((28.9 * 1.1 physical + 28.9 + 5 planar) * 1.25 * 1.1) = 90.32375 damage

Previously void cowl interaction was bugged and producing these numbers instead:
non-aligned player w/gloomerang and void cowl vs. CC: ((23.9 * 2 * 1.1 + 5 + 10) * 1.25) = 84.475 damage
shadow-aligned player w/gloomerang and void cowl vs. CC: ((23.9 * 2 * 1.1 + 5 + 10) * 1.25 * 1.1) = 92.9225 damage

Brightshade staff has a similar modifier that grants it 2x damage against shadow-aligned mobs.