Can we nerf Wolfgang some more?

[Castiliano]

Every game has its difficulty scale. It's okay to have an "easy" on a fairly simple character. But yes, just a little more downside wouldn't hurt.

[Jimothywastaken]

2 hours ago, kroban said:

I used to think the same about Wolfgang back when everyone was using his x2 damage as an easy ruins rush and the only thing you had to do was just eating. But after skill trees were added he fell down the "tier list" A LOT. He isnt as OP as he used to be.

honestly 
i think 90% of wolfgang's hype back in ye olden days was because a majority of the cast really didn't do anything super different or special so that combined with a slight speed boost and better damage made him look really strong in the eyes of a community that was just worse at the game

[Cloakingsumo198]

On 7/12/2024 at 5:02 AM, Balter said:

It’s called tanking Wolfgang can easily tank FW with marble suits.

This guy has no idea what he's talking about 

On 7/12/2024 at 4:24 AM, marshyds said:

His damage output could decrease with sanity loss, making the downside actually matter.

A whole issue people had with old Wolfgang is that he "wasted resources" just to maintain his power and now you want to bring that back with his increased sanity drain from his rework this idea just isn't good especially against large sanity drains like bosses or constant drainage like caves

[Toroic]

There’s plenty to criticize about Wolfgang’s design, but the general consensus is that Max and Wanda are better than he is even without having skill trees yet, and thus far every character has gotten buffed with their skill tree (Wilson getting the smallest buff).

Yes, Wolfgang has top tier damage and takes very little setup before he reaches it, but his utility outside of combat is minimal, and maintaining mightiness gets tedious fast.

While he’s a solid choice for speedrunning or a duo world, bringing damage and little else is underwhelming in a group of 3 or more.

In addition, his skill tree is small and boring, with very little variation because the gym perks are distinctly worse than other options.  The biggest boost Wolfgang got was lunar alignment applying to several key pre-planar enemies like shadows, shadow pieces, AG, FW because 30% multiplicative on a character with a 2x damage mult already is strong.

That said, nerfing him isn’t a good solution.  Wolfgang is not and has never been popular as a character choice despite being overpowered at certain points in DST’s development.

Wolfgang needs more utility to make his gameplay loop different, a more interesting implementation of his sanity downside, and more interesting alignment perks.

I’ve been playing Wolfgang since he was added to DS, and he’s gone through a lot of changes in that time.

Personally, I think his best version is my rework of his mechanics and skill tree which can be found here: Wolfgang rework

and changes documented here: Documentation

There’s too many changes to not turn this into a novel, but the goal was to make mightiness more fun to use, make Wolfgang more fun to play, make his skill tree have many different build paths, and shift his power away from all combat into more utility for himself and his team.

[Mike23Ua]

Maybe this is an unpopular opinion, but Wolfgang doesn’t need anymore nerfs, he needs BUFFS! (Unrelated to raw strength in Damage)

If anyone has ever played “The Survivalists” your character can pick up entire storage chests full of stuff or chairs etc and carry them someplace else.. this had Wolfgang’s name written all over it..

He should’ve ALSO probably had the Merm Ability to super punch boulders with his bare hands no tools required! (did Klei forget that the entire reason he was lured into the constant in the first place was making a shady deal with Maxwell for inhuman levels of strength?) Dudes legit seen carelessly lifting a train car off Maxwell in his short.. 

And after Winona got vine bridges to cross gaps (as a group) and Wigfrid got Elden Spear to cross gaps (solo) This dude should legit be able to Yeet his team mates over gaps of water.. (it would function identical to vine bridge except he couldn’t cross just team mates can.. and you couldn’t throw anyone in water)

I don’t care what the “He’s Too OP” Crowd has to say, I’m wanting a character that’s “Fun” Translates beyond just killing bosses faster.

And Wolfgang’s skill tree doesn’t really give me that impression.

[NPCMaxwell]

39 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Maybe this is an unpopular opinion, but Wolfgang doesn’t need anymore nerfs, he needs BUFFS! (Unrelated to raw strength in Damage)

If anyone has ever played “The Survivalists” your character can pick up entire storage chests full of stuff or chairs etc and carry them someplace else.. this had Wolfgang’s name written all over it..

He should’ve ALSO probably had the Merm Ability to super punch boulders with his bare hands no tools required! (did Klei forget that the entire reason he was lured into the constant in the first place was making a shady deal with Maxwell for inhuman levels of strength?) Dudes legit seen carelessly lifting a train car off Maxwell in his short.. 

And after Winona got vine bridges to cross gaps (as a group) and Wigfrid got Elden Spear to cross gaps (solo) This dude should legit be able to Yeet his team mates over gaps of water.. (it would function identical to vine bridge except he couldn’t cross just team mates can.. and you couldn’t throw anyone in water)

I don’t care what the “He’s Too OP” Crowd has to say, I’m wanting a character that’s “Fun” Translates beyond just killing bosses faster.

And Wolfgang’s skill tree doesn’t really give me that impression.

I always thought Maxwell had used the codex umbra to "INFUSE" Wolfgang with supernatural strength for the selfish purpose of surviving without even asking if Wolfgang WANTED to get it. xP

[That means Wolfgang to me looked like he would have tried to help Maxwell anyway, even if he hadn't been able to lift the train after all, simply because Wolfgang seemed so shocked about the whole train disaster, plus his kind helpful personality. I suppose if Maxwell wouldn't have had the codex umbra with him already Wolfgang would have stayed a regular strongman, not surpernatural and Maxwell would have ended up like a pancake like the rest of the people involved in the accident.

Before seeing this Wolfgang short I had honestly thought Maxwell had luckily survived the train accident and found the book AFTER his disappearance, but I honestly love Wolfgang's short so much that I adore Wolfgang getting his powers "involuntarily" just because he's got a kind heart and tried to help way more. (Also Maxwell probably wouldn't have been trying to hide the codex and run away after being safed if he had been asking Wolfgang if he WANTED to help him in exchange for supernatural powers first instead of just using the codex for his own advantage seeing Wolfgang's attempt to help wouldn't save him)]

(Just a detail, but I may have misinterpreted that in the animation short once again)

[cybers2001]

Every character that gets a skill tree is able to effectively replace Wolfgang as a fighter (except Wilson, heh).

Winona can spam planar strike on enemies dealing 600 area planar dps now.

Love the forums special, though. "I played this character for 2 hours and here is my professional opinion" thread.

[GamePlayer42]

3 hours ago, cybers2001 said:

Every character that gets a skill tree is able to effectively replace Wolfgang as a fighter (except Wilson, heh).

Winona can spam planar strike on enemies dealing 600 area planar dps now.

Love the forums special, though. "I played this character for 2 hours and here is my professional opinion" thread.

every opinion is valuable

[Wormboi]

1 hour ago, GamePlayer42 said:

every opinion is valuable

but some are more valuable than others...

[Jimothywastaken]

2 hours ago, Wormboi said:

but some are more valuable than others...

for example i am correct about everything and i know everything there is to know about all subjects 

 

[Gashzer]

If they brought back beta rework wolfgang that would be a fine enough nerf. 

Removing mightiness gain from work or combat would give alot more use to his gym and gym skills. 

[NoodlemanNed]

if you think wolfgang is overpowered youre going to lose your mind after seeing a server with 3 players in it

 

[cybers2001]

On 7/14/2024 at 4:13 PM, Gashzer said:

If they brought back beta rework wolfgang that would be a fine enough nerf. 

Removing mightiness gain from work or combat would give alot more use to his gym and gym skills. 

This would make me never play Wolfgang again.

Can you imagine? Midway through a fight losing mightiness, getting stunned, eating a direct hit from a boss, then having to run away, lift a dumbell for 10 seconds while hoping the boss doesn't show up as you get stunned going back into mighty. Absolute nightmare gameplay experience.

[abrocator]

14 hours ago, cybers2001 said:

Can you imagine? Midway through a fight losing mightiness, getting stunned, eating a direct hit from a boss, then having to run away, lift a dumbell for 10 seconds while hoping the boss doesn't show up as you get stunned going back into mighty. Absolute nightmare gameplay experience.

We can imagine since this was playtested in the beta lol

[cybers2001]

2 hours ago, abrocator said:

We can imagine since this was playtested in the beta lol

True. I don't tend to play the beta builds, but Wolfgang's was definitely a dumpster fire iirc.

[Well-met]

wolfgang is fine ever since they removed his size speed and no one has said a word about him in years.

this is bait, I'm sorry.

 

[Cheggf]

I'm thinking his damage should be lowered from 0.75/1.0/2.0 to 0.05/0.1/0.15 so that he's a little more in line with the rest of the cast. And Maxwell is a little undertuned so he should really have 400 health and a damage multiplier of like 5 or 6 to make him viable. Winona should really just have c_supergodmode() active by default, it kind of sucks how she still has stats. A bit unviable. 

[cybers2001]

11 hours ago, Cheggf said:

I'm thinking his damage should be lowered from 0.75/1.0/2.0 to 0.05/0.1/0.15 so that he's a little more in line with the rest of the cast. And Maxwell is a little undertuned so he should really have 400 health and a damage multiplier of like 5 or 6 to make him viable. Winona should really just have c_supergodmode() active by default, it kind of sucks how she still has stats. A bit unviable. 

Every opinion is valuable

[Frosty_Mentos]

Can we stop with the rhetoric that Wolfgang needs nerfs? We got Wanda, Winona, Willow, Maxwell, Wigfrid, Wurt with insane amounts of damage output. It's a bad take to say Wolfgang needs nerfs when there's characters or ways that have potential in doing 4x more damage than him.

[Wormboi]

8 minutes ago, Frosty_Mentos said:

Can we stop with the rhetoric that Wolfgang needs nerfs? We got Wanda, Winona, Willow, Maxwell, Wigfrid, Wurt with insane amounts of damage output. It's a bad take to say Wolfgang needs nerfs when there's characters or ways that have potential in doing 4x more damage than him.

Wanda is more OP anyways I mean look at this!

[Frosty_Mentos]

8 minutes ago, Wormboi said:

Wanda is more OP anyways I mean look at this!

I'm not saying Wanda is more OP, she is defintely more risk, but there's easier characters to play as as well and some are just more effective in their own ways.

[Wormboi]

1 minute ago, Frosty_Mentos said:

I'm not saying Wanda is more OP, she is defintely more risk, but there's easier characters to play as as well and some are just more effective in their own ways.

That comment was a joke lol

[Frosty_Mentos]

2 minutes ago, Wormboi said:

That comment was a joke lol

I'm not here for jokes I'm here to be mad.