Hardmode is not the way to go.

[BezKa]

1 minute ago, grm9 said:

what would that even be? turning into a rotten revived corpse and getting partially turned into a shadow or what?

I don't know, it's not like it would happen. If I let my imagination go though, I think the fandom had a right idea with fanarts of Maxwell with shadow corrupted hands, as his lower health has been explained by the toll the throne has taken on him. Something similar could happen to all characters if shadows infect them all. For lunar, the skins could be an inspiration, or go with more invisible approach where your mind is weakened more than your body. As for stats and such, I don't like to get too specific in my fantasies or I start feeling like it's actually a possibility irl when we all know that ship has sailed a long time ago.

Overall, I wouldn't expect anything super drastic lore-wise, just as the tensions rise between the moon and shadows, the survivors end up right where they started; as pawns for the forces beyond their control.

[grm9]

Just now, BezKa said:

As for stats and such, I don't like to get too specific in my fantasies or I start feeling like it's actually a possibility irl when we all know that ship has sailed a long time ago

still possible to add through mods, i'd be willing to do something like that if that wouldn't require making art possibly

[cybers2001]

18 minutes ago, BezKa said:

I'm no game dev but if I wanted to make hard mode for DST I would have made the player weaker, not stronger. Making the sides player can choose an infection of sorts, where if you choose one you are permanently weakened by the other with some very minor benefit for the chosen one, like a parasite hesitantly turned symbiotic. You can still add freaky bosses that are even harder, while upping the difficulty for the other bosses by proxy.

And no skill trees

Post-rifts already do this, essentially. Farming/gathering becomes more complicated with brightshades. Acid rain becomes a constant nuisance in the caves.

[BezKa]

1 minute ago, cybers2001 said:

Post-rifts already do this, essentially. Farming/gathering becomes more complicated with brightshades. Acid rain becomes a constant nuisance in the caves.

Kind of? There are some harder parts, but everything else becomes much easier.

[Mysterious box]

4 minutes ago, Milordo said:

Also I disagree that "hard mode" is the only direction the game can go and I'm still hopeful that Klei can fix and go back to their errors.

Characters abilities are balanced around end game content so your choices are to nerf those abilities or push content further into the game.

14 minutes ago, grm9 said:

unless you only mean adding only planar stuff to stuff after that, that won't work because woodie and willow sucked before skill tree

Willow was considered a great refresh until the latter ones happened I wonder why she sucked now?

As for Woodie his problems should have been fixed in his base kit fixing it in the skill tree still doesn't make sense to me.

[grm9]

5 minutes ago, cybers2001 said:

Post-rifts already do this, essentially. Farming/gathering becomes more complicated with brightshades. Acid rain becomes a constant nuisance in the caves

killing brightshades isn't hard and you can deal with acid rain same way you deal with normal rain and you also get an AoE wetness protection thing

Just now, Mysterious box said:

Willow was considered a great refresh until the latter ones happened I wonder why she sucked now?

how's that related to what i said? i also doubt that she was

1 minute ago, Mysterious box said:

As for Woodie his problems should have been fixed in his base kit fixing it in the skill tree still doesn't make sense to me

do you hope for them to make another skill tree for him and lock all skill trees behind rifts even though practically all of them've perks that're only useful before rifts?

[Milordo]

11 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Characters abilities are balanced around end game content so your choices are to nerf those abilities or push content further into the game.

Why characters abilities are balanced around only in end game content? where? And why we have only the choice to nerf those abilities or push content further into the game??

[arubaro]

4 hours ago, Theukon-dos said:

about the ocean, and look how that ended up

Being really fun little by little?

[Maxil20]

8 hours ago, Antynomity said:

Don't Starve was not built for this kind of stuff, and it shows.

The ~2018 DST was not built for this kind of stuff. By comparison, Modern Day DST is progressively being built for this kind of stuff.

I don't think it's going to be a huge revelation to anyone that DST has massively changed over the years. DST has gone from "DS without SW and some renewability mechanics to encourage long term multiplayer worlds" to "Questline oriented gameplay to get new rewards". The game has changed a lot in that aspect, and this of course will result in how players will feel about this type of content.

I, personally, do enjoy how they are trying to add new content in DST lately. It has some issues (Like waiting for cave rifts....) But the content that does get released has lately been quite substantial and fun for me to mess around with. I enjoy messing around with the new items and incorporating them into my gameplay loop, and I like the various combat encounters they have added. Really the only update that has hit me in a bad note is taking root but that's because I don't think they could have possibly made the start of the arc any more iffy whatsoever. Of course, that's how I feel about it, but it's something that is shared by a lot of people, "veterans" included.

I think another thing, which is just in general, is that if you are no longer having fun playing DST, you really should try taking a break from it. I love this game, it's my favorite game by like 2 miles, but whenever I stop having goals to do and I start playing DST just to play it, I'm going to stop doing so and just play other games. Playing it only risks further burnout and more distaste of the game that you already have issues with. There's nothing wrong in just taking a break and coming back when there is something new to tackle.

[cybers2001]

32 minutes ago, grm9 said:

killing brightshades isn't hard and you can deal with acid rain same way you deal with normal rain and you also get an AoE wetness protection thing

Right, but still both add more work to existing gameplay loops. The acid rain one in a way also nerfs your damage potential, as you get far less normal rain in the caves to get wetness debuffs on those bosses.

[Antynomity]

54 minutes ago, cybers2001 said:

Having your own opinions is one thing, but I think "veterans" should stop trying to speak on behalf of the newbies. Klei would surely know more about how different demographics receive their game than anyone here would, if they are collecting any data at all for their game.

Decisions solely based on data will almost never be the best decisions to make.

49 minutes ago, grm9 said:

still possible to add through mods, i'd be willing to do something like that if that wouldn't require making art possibly

I could help with art... even if I don't really draw often enough or experienced enough to make anything close to the quality of the DS/T artstyle

11 minutes ago, Maxil20 said:

I think another thing, which is just in general, is that if you are no longer having fun playing DST, you really should try taking a break from it. I love this game, it's my favorite game by like 2 miles, but whenever I stop having goals to do and I start playing DST just to play it, I'm going to stop doing so and just play other games. Playing it only risks further burnout and more distaste of the game that you already have issues with. There's nothing wrong in just taking a break and coming back when there is something new to tackle.

I did. And it didn't help. But when I play Don't Starve, I don't feel anywhere near as negative as I do for DST. Yes, I think DS bosses are way too squishy, yes I think that it might get boring after a bit, but when I play the game I still feel like there was a strong direction for the game, which it took. I don't feel like DST has a direction... at all, right now.

[Mysterious box]

45 minutes ago, grm9 said:

how's that related to what i said? i also doubt that she was

How did pre skill tree Willow suck?

 

48 minutes ago, grm9 said:

do you hope for them to make another skill tree for him and lock all skill trees behind rifts even though practically all of them've perks that're only useful before rifts?

No how about fix the issues in his base kit and then build from there like other skill trees on good characters there should be no character who "needs" a skill tree.

53 minutes ago, Milordo said:

Why characters abilities are balanced around only in end game content? where? And why we have only the choice to nerf those abilities or push content further into the game??

Would you say the current skill trees are balanced for the early game? If you feel so then fine I guess but if not how do you handle content going forward for the early game? To you handle content with the understanding that the skill tree exist despite them being intended for the endgame or do you blatantly ignore the fact skills steamroll content? When I say content I more so mean major content by the way.

[grm9]

7 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

How did pre skill tree Willow suck?

worse in comparison to everyone else, even pre rework characters

8 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

No how about fix the issues in his base kit and then build from there

that's what i said, they'd pretty much need to make another skill tree

[Mysterious box]

Just now, grm9 said:

worse in comparison to everyone else, even pre rework characters

How do you figure?

[grm9]

Just now, Mysterious box said:

How do you figure?

not many perks that're useful at all, lighter was practically worthless, nightmares aren't hard to deal with and it was usually better to kill them yourself since bernie required resources for repairing him, fire damage isn't an issue because there's only 1 boss that could realistically deal fire damage to you and you could've turned it's fire mode off anyway, double fuel increase assumes that you use fire pits or campfires a lot etc.

[W0l0l0]

I think Planar as a mechanic does damage to the game by invalidating a lot of equipment which is one of the things I really liked Don't Starve Together for.

In my opinion late game difficulty can be increased in other ways and it feels weird to me.

Skill trees are whatever. I don't hate them.

 

[Swiyss]

2 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

I know this would be very unpopular but I feel like better solution for skill trees in general would be to make them unlock as soon as you open the rifts. The skill points would still be saved but the trees themselves wouldn't activate until you open them.

I like that, it would give me even more motivation to go for late game.

2 hours ago, loopuleasa said:

People are playing this game upwards of 5000 hours

This game was never designed to be played that much, it has limits

It is fine to be done with games, play something else, come back later

I mean.. 5k hours in 9 years for example is honestly not that much.

[Mysterious box]

9 minutes ago, grm9 said:

not many perks that're useful at all, lighter was practically worthless, nightmares aren't hard to deal with and it was usually better to kill them yourself since bernie required resources for repairing him, fire damage isn't an issue because there's only 1 boss that could realistically deal fire damage to you and you could've turned it's fire mode off anyway, double fuel increase assumes that you use fire pits or campfires a lot etc.

She can cook with her lighter making it a great tool to cook on the go for people who don't want to use crockpots and for people who like to consume monster meat to lower sanity on the go. Her fast cooking well I don't even need to explain why that's good.

Nightmares are one of the most common causes of death and pre skill tree Bernie was still useful against bosses. Bernie is also helpful for helping other teammates deal with sanity.

Your average player is using firepits and campfires, her fire immunity really helps in warming up in winter

 

She was a well rounded character she just wasn't as powerful as late stage refresh characters most people were satisfied until this happened.

[Swiyss]

2 hours ago, Antynomity said:

That's the thing, we shouldn't feel like abandoning the game. I was very struck when I went from absolutely loving this game, being able to play it for hours on end (when I had the time) and that was after 1500 hours sunk in already, to straight up hesitating to even launch it at times.

I think people who say that we should quit should also understand that if Klei, does keep changing the game drastically, then not only will the people that feel alienated now, would have already been alienated by then, those people who are saying this would also probably start feeling like the game's alienating them in the future.

I know how it feels to have a game that you once loved alienate it's original playerbase by (for that game's terms) awful updates, that only serve to keep milking the game further, and while the milking part absolutely does not fit DST, as skins are an additional part of updates which doesn't take much dev time compared to the updates themselves, I definitely feel like a ton of people are starting to become alienated from the game through updates;

and here's the kicker, I don't ever feel alienated while playing Don't Starve and it's DLCs. So it's very much not me growing out of the game, even if it's correct while I have grown up alongside the game.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

I'd just like to leave it here, thanks to everyone leaving comments under this post, even if with a lot of them I really cannot agree, I still appreciate that people have a space to talk about these kinds of feelings on the forums now; and for the sake of this thread's future, please stay respectful, I don't want this post to join the huge hall of derailed posts locked down because of bickering, thanks!

hardmode, as in going the terraria route... or at least in theory (not really) of having a point in the game that makes the world... or attempts to make the world harder.

 

Abysmal take, reminds me of Deep Rock Galactic where people used to say the exact thing, despite the game having the groundworks to let people play for years and years without getting bored, that positivity quickly went away when they did 2 mediocre updates in a row, and now we're one really awesome update behind us and basically no one had anything to complain about.

Point is, DST is absolutely a game built to play for thousands of hours, or at least was, when it wasn't becoming easier and easier. It has randomised worlds, a ton of characters with different playstyles (characters are starting to become way more equal which I think is not the way to go, it makes the experiences of each character less unique from one another) and a ton of content, and ways to approach it. Which is why I dislike the 'hardmode' that Klei has been working on since last year, most content in all of Don't Starve / Together, can be done very early on if you're good enough and have the knowledge, excluding season-gated things, that makes runs a lot more unique and I don't understand why that isn't being added upon further, as it exponentially increases the replayability of the game, and a lot more than chracter refreshes/ skill trees could ever dream of doing.

I feel like lately there's been a lot of love for the game coming back from devs and that's a + in my opinion. I've been seeing them slowly wanting to work on the game again. We gotta keep positive view!

[grm9]

2 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

her fire immunity really helps in warming up in winter

your temperature doesn't increase faster if you're standing inside a tree in comparison to standing nearby

3 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

She can cook with her lighter making it a great tool to cook on the go for people who don't want to use crockpots and for people who like to consume monster meat to lower sanity on the go. Her fast cooking well I don't even need to explain why that's good

forgot about that although a stack of cooked monster meat's 5 days worth of hunger and you'd probably end up going to a furnace at least once every 5 or 10 days

4 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Nightmares are one of the most common causes of death and pre skill tree Bernie was still useful against bosses. Bernie is also helpful for helping other teammates deal with sanity.

Your average player is using firepits and campfires

i wasn't talking about newbies

4 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

She was a well rounded character she just wasn't as powerful as late stage refresh characters most people were satisfied until this happened

nah, worse even in comparison to e.g. pre rework maxwell and DS woodie

[Swiyss]

2 hours ago, Antynomity said:

(characters are starting to become way more equal which I think is not the way to go, it makes the experiences of each character less unique from one another)

I had this idea a while back, but I disagree.

People are just jealous man, you have to understand this. If one char can do A and yours can't, you'll probably get mad.. emphasis on the word "probably". So the best thing is to just make each character "unique" but with similar traits. I like wormwood having a bit of combat even if he was never meant to be too combat oriented anyways.

2 hours ago, grm9 said:

because woodie and willow sucked before skill tree

yeah this is a big problem they did. They should've quick fixed them before the trees.

[Mysterious box]

1 minute ago, grm9 said:

your temperature doesn't increase faster if you're standing inside a tree in comparison to standing nearby

Hmm always felt like it did but eh I'll take your word for it. That being said just hold Bernie and using trees is enough to keep you safe from the cold until you get better gear in a winter start.

3 minutes ago, grm9 said:

forgot about that although a stack of cooked monster meat's 5 days worth of hunger and you'd probably end up going to a furnace at least once every 5 or 10 days

Or you can just cook it with your lighter.

3 minutes ago, grm9 said:

i wasn't talking about newbies

 Bold of you to assume the average player isn't dying to nightmares.

4 minutes ago, grm9 said:

nah, worse even in comparison to e.g. pre rework maxwell and DS woodie

She offers a unique summon that interacts with a mob no other summon can that has mini boss level hp and a taunt ability, and she has various built in perks that help in small ways in day to day survival.

Pre refresh Maxwell had resource gathering abilities, Wickerbottom's non self recharging books, and a crappy combat minion.

Og ds Woodie dropped all his equipment, for a gimmicky combat/harvesting mode where he had to eat a portion of what he harvested.

[Swiyss]

1 hour ago, cybers2001 said:

Post-rifts already do this, essentially. Farming/gathering becomes more complicated with brightshades. Acid rain becomes a constant nuisance in the caves.

if you put on a scale the amount of buff/strong additions to the drawbacks you would laugh at how disproportional it would be.

[grm9]

2 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Hmm always felt like it did but eh I'll take your word for it. That being said just hold Bernie and using trees is enough to keep you safe from the cold until you get better gear in a winter start

isn't bernie worse in comparison to earmuffs? that seems worthless

3 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Or you can just cook it with your lighter

or play as a character with more useful perks

3 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Bold of you to assume the average player isn't dying to nightmares

i doubt that unless you mean when also fighting something else

4 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

She offers a unique summon that interacts with a mob no other summon can that has mini boss level hp and a taunt ability

that was practically never worth using because it was better to kill nightmares yourself

5 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

she has various built in perks that help in small ways in day to day survival

only cooking faster and on lighter pretty much

5 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Pre refresh Maxwell had resource gathering abilities, Wickerbottom's non self recharging books, and a crappy combat minion

best at resource gathering so still better

5 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Og ds Woodie dropped all his equipment, for a gimmicky combat/harvesting mode where he had to eat a portion of what he harvested

tbf he might've been pretty useful against DST bosses considering that he tanked through using logs instead of armor and healing although idk

[Mike23Ua]

7 minutes ago, Swiyss said:

if you put on a scale the amount of buff/strong additions to the drawbacks you would laugh at how disproportional it would be.

From my experience with turning rifts to on from day 1 in my worlds it makes the game far more interesting, because well for one-

You’re going to be dealing with Brightshade infestations and Lunar Hail & Acid rain before you have any sort of weapons or gear at your disposal to deal with them.

The core gameplay loop for DST outside of Rift that’s activated early has always been to make sure you build or do X before Y.

Examples: You need thermal stone or winter gear before Winter, Eyebrella, Umbrella and lightning rods before spring, Ice for Iceflingo machines and Nitre before Summer.

But with rifts on from day 1, the gameplay loop changes.. You still need to do all the above, but now also with alien plants that instant kill you trying to harvest farm crops, Or taking health chip damage from new weather effects.

Then there’s the Lunar boss variants, you can kite the default versions to something that usually spells doom for that boss (Deerclops, Bearger) but the LUNAR 2.0 Versions will spell doom for most things you attempt to try to kite them towards.

Its a “Rules are now flipped” situation.