This feels insulting

[Maxil20]

6 minutes ago, GreenBowers said:

You can get by without Aoe, there's a few options in the game.

I am specifically talking about setups that rely on farming dozens (if not, hundreds) of weak mobs at a time. In particular, my mass spider/varg/merm farms heavily rely on this. AOE Is pretty much the only real method to handle these mobs without, again, using extreme mob spam or cheese methods. I can’t really work around that.

[ShadowDuelist]

4 minutes ago, chaosmonkey said:

They could eliminate the swapiness by providing real perks from the skill trees that actually incentivize playing that character without forcing you into it. Warly for instance could get longer/more/extra bonus from his spices, higher hunger/etc from foods, and so on. They don't need to take away from utility as a swap to make them good to play in their own right.

But she has 2 ways to teleport now, gather rare materials, darkness immunity, free revives and even voidwalk. I know they could have been more interesting, probably, but those are her specific perks.

[JustExo]

2 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

What it effectively does is prevents Wolfgang from being able to use Winona’s Catapults.

I could just imagine him being able to summon Abigail lol.

Yes sadly the entire game seemingly needs to be balanced around the big guy..

But I for one who really enjoy playing as Winona, enjoy having more reasons to continue being Winona.. rather than building catapults and swapping to Wolfgang to get the best & most optimal playstyle.

Wolfgang's been able to use Winona's catapults prior to this skill tree update, and nobody really does it. 
Saying that this update is balanced around Wolfgang raises so many problems, with the first one being that: Wolfgang shouldn't be a factor when it comes to designing Winona's skill tree. 
Honestly this perspective feels like a personal grudge against wolfgang

I don't think that catapults being usable by other characters would matter if winona had reasons to stick with her. The unfortunate fact of the matter is that: Winona doesn't have enough that makes her stand out on her own once catapults are placed, which is an issue with the way the character is designed, not with the catapults themselves

[chaosmonkey]

Just now, ShadowDuelist said:

But she has 2 ways to teleport now, gather rare materials, darkness immunity, free revives and even voidwalk. I know they could have been more interesting, probably, but those are her specific perks.

I think you're saying that Winona has plenty of incentive to play her without restricting catapults from other characters. I agree with that.

[GreenBowers]

3 minutes ago, Maxil20 said:

I am specifically talking about setups that rely on farming dozens (if not, hundreds) of weak mobs at a time. In particular, my mass spider/varg/merm farms heavily rely on this. AOE Is pretty much the only real method to handle these mobs without, again, using extreme mob spam or cheese methods. I can’t really work around that.

Could farm some seedshells.

[Mike23Ua]

24 minutes ago, Well-met said:

very good change tbh

I personally don’t understand why the celestial portal ever needed to exist, as someone who played the single player game- you could travel between worlds RoG/SW/Hamlet but you could not EVER switch to Wendy if you picked Walani.

As much as i would’ve loved to have access to both redoplayable surfboards and Abigail’s flower, it was always one perk or the other.

With DST I can sort of understand why we can switch (characters like Wendy, Wurt, Wickerbottom, Wormwood and even Wolfgang having cute structures they can craft to add to the worlds atmosphere like Sisturn, Gym or Library)

But I don’t think Klei ever intended for Wolfgang to be able to use Winona’s Catapults.

As a single player DS veteran, ima just call that busted for obvious reasons..

[Sir Noel]

Just now, ShadowDuelist said:

But she has 2 ways to teleport now, gather rare materials, darkness immunity, free revives and even voidwalk. I know they could have been more interesting, probably, but those are her specific perks.

This is a good step in the right direction but it's not really enough to separate her, you can just tell by the fact that there's only 4 skills that are mainly about her and not machines. Her machines basically are her at this point, and Klei is mostly doubling down on that aspect of her right now by locking catapults to her instead of doing more things with her. Many have suggested things like skills for her crafting-hunger mechanic, mining/chopping efficiency, new gadgets/machines that offer good utility, etc.The first two shelves only amplify what she has or give her QOL she will always want regardless, which is bad because that's over half the skills. Honestly if they just want her to be the machine character then we should have more machines for her, right now all we have is catapults and spotlights with like 12 skills going towards those alone.

[Maxil20]

2 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

you could travel between worlds RoG/SW/Hamlet but you could not EVER switch to Wendy if you picked Walani.

It takes ~15-20 minutes to make the teleportato on one of the 3 worlds and swap to a character if you want to change characters in DS. I did this consistently to get things like Wicker books and then swapped back to someone like WX for convenience perks. The reason people don’t do it is because there were not many characters that you would actively want to swap to like there is in DST today.

[Mysterious box]

22 minutes ago, chaosmonkey said:

Warly for instance could get longer/more/extra bonus from his spices, higher hunger/etc from foods, and so on. They don't need to take away from utility as a swap to make them good to play in their own right.

I don't think they'll remove the ability for Warly to share his dishes considering they let Wurt share her skeeter bombs at most I imagine they'll only touch Maxwell's interaction with Wickerbottoms books as well when her time comes around.

[GreenBowers]

1 minute ago, Mysterious box said:

I don't think they'll remove the ability for Warly to share his dishes considering they let Wurt share her skeeter bombs at most I imagine they'll only touch Maxwell's interaction with Wickerbottoms books as well when her time comes around.

Can't wait to see what they do to my wicker ;-;

[Dragonboooorn]

ever considered sticking to one character in one world? 

[SteamMonkey]

1 hour ago, JustExo said:

Winona's been the character I default to the most, and I was really hoping for her to get more perks this skill tree that impacted her day-to-day gameplay loop, which unfortunately we didn't get a lot of.

Now, they removed the character's best attribute, which is other characters being able to make use of her perks in a way that feels like it leaves an impact.

Locking catapults behind Winona doesn't add anything for anybody, it just forces you to have a Winona present at all times, which REALLY sucks, and makes me feel like its not even worth building catapults anymore. They're just asking for too much for a benefit thats complete reliant on you being at each station whenever you'd want to operate it.

 

It just sucks that an update that I should be looking forward to feels more like a nerf to what I like about her than anything else 

If you play winona most of the time... why on earth would this bother you? You can still use em. Everyone can't read wickers books, no one can use Warly's spice grinders, etc. It's a character perk, gotta have the character for the perk. 

 

[Sir Noel]

Just now, Dragonboooorn said:

ever considered sticking to one character in one world? 

This comes up a lot, and I’m gonna be honest, I never got the appeal of switching characters either. But why limit options? Don’t get me wrong, Klei at the end of the day can do what they want. But not everything needs to be limited if it doesn’t make sense. 

[ShadowDuelist]

3 minutes ago, GreenBowers said:

Can't wait to see what they do to my wicker ;-;

I think instead of just more books, she will have more unique interactions with magic to set her further apart of Maxwell. Or that's what I'm hoping.
Currently she can rarely use her magic and is limited to always being near her library due to how expensive some books are, and how little durability most of them have. And her con makes casting spells often either very expensive or a nightmare.
Before her rework and Maxwell's rework, she was a lot easier easier to go around casting magic as, since both of her offensive magic books can be re-crafted on the go as long as you collect papyrus: STS gives you fuel often for using it, and on tentacles give you spots to re-craft. And the nightmares weren't such a big deal back then, So I'd often cast sleep and use tentacles to fight stuff and for crowd control.

TL;DR She needs to be able to cast magic more often without such a huge penalties and limitations, like Maxwell and Willow do. 

[JustExo]

11 minutes ago, Dragonboooorn said:

ever considered sticking to one character in one world? 

Yes, Winona, Frequently, the problem is that I can't help but feel like I've done everything the character has to offer when I put down catapults. She should get more perks that make her more interesting to play aside from catapults.

[lowercase skye]

16 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

I personally don’t understand why the celestial portal ever needed to exist, as someone who played the single player game- you could travel between worlds RoG/SW/Hamlet but you could not EVER switch to Wendy if you picked Walani.

As much as i would’ve loved to have access to both redoplayable surfboards and Abigail’s flower, it was always one perk or the other.

Abigail in particular can actually be kept between characters so long as you summon her first, so that particular example doesn't work. Other than that, you can still bundle Warly's foods, load up spearguns with Battle Spears, place down the Sea Legs, drop a Chef Pouch, and build your Thumpers, and they'll all stick around forever. Before the bug fixes (which you can opt out of on steam) you could even keep speed boosts from character to character. This idea that switching characters wasn't a thing anyone would do is just flat-out wrong, you just put together the Teleportato in whatever world you don't want and you can swap freely and a large amount of the more interesting character items will stay around. The ones that don't stay are just equipment, not infrastructure like catapults or telipads are.

[Dragonboooorn]

9 minutes ago, JustExo said:

Yes, Winona, Frequently, the problem is that I can't help but feel like I've done everything the character has to offer when I put down catapults. She should get more perks that make her more interesting to play aside from catapults.

Wilson has literally nothing to offer yet some people still play him.

I stick to one character in one world if they manage to balance having both intresting persona and perks.

I never really felt the need to swap characters really, they arent gloves to change them on your whim

[Cuernito.]

11 minutes ago, JustExo said:

Yes, Winona, Frequently, the problem is that I can't help but feel like I've done everything the character has to offer when I put down catapults. She should get more perks that make her more interesting to play aside from catapults.

It feel good to have another Nona's main talking about this nonsense. For a character as altrustic as her this changes doesnt feel right.

[Mike23Ua]

19 minutes ago, finn from human said:

Abigail in particular can actually be kept between characters so long as you summon her first, so that particular example doesn't work. Other than that, you can still bundle Warly's foods, load up spearguns with Battle Spears, place down the Sea Legs, drop a Chef Pouch, and build your Thumpers, and they'll all stick around forever. Before the bug fixes (which you can opt out of on steam) you could even keep speed boosts from character to character. This idea that switching characters wasn't a thing anyone would do is just flat-out wrong, you just put together the Teleportato in whatever world you don't want and you can swap freely and a large amount of the more interesting character items will stay around. The ones that don't stay are just equipment, not infrastructure like catapults or telipads are.

Is this a PC exclusive feature or something? I’ve never been able to switch characters in Solo DS lmao.. and if I could, I’d love to know how it’s done without mods or hacks or anything like that..

You got any idea how helpful it would’ve been to be able to switch Wilson to Wolfgang or Wendy at times they would’ve been most helpful during Maxwells campaign?

[DVGMedia]

Ive always kind of been against the celestial portal allowing you to change characters. I Personally won't do it just because I feel like choosing a character for that characters perks and downsides lets you appreciate what each character does. I feel like being able to solve things without relying on the other characters powers really shows some of the nuances of the game. If you want to use the portal go right ahead I don't mind if others do its just my personal belief not to lol. 
That being said.
Having some kind of character interaction is kind of nice to have if its as simple as sharing armors.
I kind of feel like warlies food buff is already kind of too much of a good interaction Cause it really does make warly kind of useless His ability of being able to be the best at something for only a short period of time really is kind of nice for a character.  But it kind of just feels pointless when you can just give it to some one else at no downside.
So I feel we should not go down that route.

If I were to work on this game. MY solution would be to try and provide unique interactions with each characters unique power. Something small like wurt and wicker books These are interactions that are unique to the characters  and don't trample over the original characters powers. 

I don't think we should have interactions like maxwell and wickerbottom.
For warly Idk how he can change since he is mostly a support.  I would just think his buff is lower if the player eating the dish is not warly.

LIke for this case imagine instead if each character was able to have a unique interaction with winonas gear? It would be something very basic like  maybe wilson getting more durabilty on the items. willow adding fire.
Wolfgang being able to self load catapults without power.
WX Using his power to run machines.
Wendy being able to launch pipspooks that turn to friendly ghosts that aoe damage from the the catapults.

Theres so much more that can be done to create unique interactions.

Edit.
I had more ideas for winonas interactions with characters.  Since characters can have acess to their own items that others cant use. And winonas generators take multiple types of fuel.  So like each character if they want to access their unique interaction they can fuel with their special items.
glories for wendy
Souls for wortox
embers for willow
circuits for wx.
dumbell for wolf? Idk just something i thought how it could be done to access character interactions
 

 

[cybers2001]

1 hour ago, GreenBowers said:

I mean, if you want to do 2x damage to a boss, you do the same for wolfgang. Anyone can be a swap character with this logic if you say 'Oh people want to make use of someone's very specific character ability for something, so they'll just abuse the portal to do it and then switch back.'

This is the uncomfortable truth. Any character is a “swap character” depending on how long of a window constitutes a swap vs legit play.

In longer worlds, I reserve Wolfgang mostly for summer ruins clears. That’s 15 days tops. I’ve had periods of greater than 15 days where I’m just farming and cooking as Warly.

[flamboyant wolf]

Character swapping&big farms aside, it just doesn't feel good to have to be there to work the catapults. One of the things I liked about em was precisely that I didn't have to be near for them to work, so I could, for example, leave some at base, and then it could act as a hound defense for people even when I'm nowhere near it.

[lowercase skye]

20 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Is this a PC exclusive feature or something? I’ve never been able to switch characters in Solo DS lmao.. and if I could, I’d love to know how it’s done without mods or hacks or anything like that..

It's not PC exclusive, I first played Don't Starve on Wii U. The Teleportato (as in the one made up of the box/crank/lever/potato things, in the regular world/SW/Hamlet, not adventure mode) lets you choose a different character once you activate it, along with deleting that specific world and generating a new one. Also unlike adventure mode, you can take your entire inventory with you.

[somethin]

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

snip

Wow, this is actually the first time I actually agree on something Mike said. Whatever will he come up with next??

Now on op's opinion , I think the best case scenario that will come up from this is to let other characters use the base dinky catapults, but the new stuff that comes with skill tree will only be active if Winona is actively around. it doesn't make sense otherwise. And I also don't get the rock woes everybody is talking about. I don't play on multi that much but if i would like to set up a catapult farm I wouldn't even dare asking others for resources, I'll go get them myself. If the surface is all stripped of boulders I'll go into caves. I barely saw anyone even ever think about getting rocks in caves when it's literally the most abundant (one time) source of rocks. And IF even the cave is stripped of rocks... do you even need catapults at that point?

[Maxil20]

19 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Is this a PC exclusive feature or something? I’ve never been able to switch characters in Solo DS lmao.. and if I could, I’d love to know how it’s done without mods or hacks or anything like that..

You got any idea how helpful it would’ve been to be able to switch Wilson to Wolfgang or Wendy at times they would’ve been most helpful during Maxwells campaign?

This is a feature given to every platform, including console and mobile.

I probably should have clarified that swapping characters primarily relates to the normal/sandbox mode. The adventure mode teleportato works differently (it will not allow you to swap characters and you only keep 4 items tops).

It’s very simple, once you assemble the teleportato and go to the next world, you will be prompted to select a character before the next world generates, which will be by default the one you just were. You are free to choose any of the other characters you have currently unlocked. You will also keep every single inventory item you have on you (exceptions being specific items like the eyebone or divining rod, which will instead turn into “ashes of [item]” and be functionally similar to ash).

The thing that makes this particularly powerful is in DS, the world you hop is the only world that is “destroyed” by the process. If you hop in Hamlet, for example, it will only destroy the hamlet world and your forest/shipwrecked worlds will be completely unchanged. This results in being able to build in one world and use another as a “sacrifice world” as sorts to farm resources and swap characters in.

If you are not playing in multiple worlds, the second option is completing adventure mode. If you are not aware, completing adventure mode will swap the character on the throne with who you were playing as, and it will stay there regardless of which world you did adventure mode on. You can utilize this to beat adventure mode on an unrelated world with the character you want to get then stuck in the throne, then go to the world you want to swap on and beat adventure mode again to play as the character you want. This takes much longer, but is entirely possible without ever linking a forest world to any of the DLC’s and is the only realistic option if you are playing something like Wii U/Mobile where the DLC’s other than ROG were not ported/standalone.