The Atrium is still really annoying to locate

[Jimothywastaken]

The atrium is really annoying to find i think everyone can agree that having to play tentapillar roulette and praying that you find the right one is time consuming and annoying. 

how do you fix this

The most direct way to fix this is to just have the atrium generate connected the labyrinth or general ruins which would fix the problem but i feel that it would take away from the atrium as a location and keeping the tentapillar is something i would like to do but still i would prefer it over the guessing game and it would also be pretty convenient which is really nice

the most suggested solution i see is to make either the thulecite medallion, shadow atrium or ancient key act like a diving rod from singleplayer but for the correct tentapillar which also would work and honestly i dont hate this solution but it doesn't get rid of tentacle rng completely you still might get unlucky and have to walk across the entire caves because the tentapillar was on the other side of the map.

the method i like the most though is to just make the atrium tentapillar always spawn in the muddy biome, its a direct and simple solution that doesnt make any major changes to items or world gen there isnt much else to say here.

overall i just wanted to restart this conversation as finding the atrium tentapillar is one of the more annoying parts of the game and is just a boring middle man to the actual content kinda like pearl which i will probably talk about soon 

 

[Brago-sama]

Personally ide just make it spawn close enough to see. Most new people i meet dont even relize it exists, and dont bother with tentapillers because they usually just lead to another part of the caves which.... means they didnt really accomplish anything lol

[Zombiep307728]

I think the tentipiller should be either surrounded by ruins turf and guaranteed to be in the same spot, or the atrium tentipiller could be a shadow tentipiller and when you attack it it summons the little shadow tentacles the club spawns 

[Guille6785]

I think making the atrium always spawn close enough to the ruins to be able to telepoof to it would be enough to make me happy

[lowercase skye]

54 minutes ago, Brago-sama said:

Most new people i meet dont even relize it exists, and dont bother with tentapillers because they usually just lead to another part of the caves which.... means they didnt really accomplish anything lol

Yeah I think the atrium probably suffers most from the "this is intuitive because we just added it so you see it in the patchnotes" issue that a good bit of ANR has. The only reason to know tentapillars lead to the atrium is either reading the wiki, or being there to see the change and so it stands out because it's new.

[Anis5240]

4 hours ago, Jimothywastaken said:

the atrium tentapillar always spawn in the muddy biome

I feel like this is somewhat recurring enough, like every 2 out of 3 worlds I played on has the tentapillar in muddy biome (especially near Daywalker) leads to Atrium.

But still, a better way to find the Atrium will be welcomed too.

[Moonatik]

It's an interesting question. I wonder first if you're an ancient player, with maybe many hundred of hours or more than 1000, 2000 ? Most of the ancient players use now some mods that minimize many aspects of the game. One easy exemple: the complete calendar (seasons, moon).

You touch the core of the game with this question. And, as I discover Oxygen not included since 2 months, maybe the core of KLEI.

Sometimes, I wish I could discover this game today, or maybe wait for 1 or 2 more years. 

How is to be a new player going blind in this game ? We could maybe play all our life and never discover some places, like the atrium. 

So you could add many "issues" like that. Like... the crabking, that you can fight without the pearl, before you discover pearl's island, and even with that, you won't know the existence of the pearl before you finish all the quests, if you finish it all.

Like ONI, is Don't starve intuitive ? Does it have to be ? 

I hate spoilers, but for DST or ONI, I checked some guides, because for these games specifically, I don't mind. Even when you know what to do, it's still very hard to accomplish things.

It's weird, right ?

Do you realize that DST is a fkn hard game ? Too much maybe ? Are they all crazy at KLEI ? 

I didn't play since long, but there's still 7 tentacles right ? If you try one, you try two, so 5 left. Is it really too hard ? Or worst, boring ?

 

I don't know. But the changes you're asking for, are really impactful, in my opinion. Too much important to fix it with a simple QoL.

[BeeClops]

20 minutes ago, Moonatik said:

I didn't play since long, but there's still 7 tentacles right ? If you try one, you try two, so 5 left. Is it really too hard ? Or worst, boring ?

6 pairs usually, so 12 tentacles. I think an average for finding the atirum vanilla is 6-8 days, just my guesstimation and not speedrunner pace, obviously can take longer or less. Which is still a lot, maybe not worse than finding crab kind pre-detectors, but still quite tedious. 

I've ended up enjoying void walking, it's faster and you at least have some patterns to follow, unlike with tentacles where it's pure luck. 

[Gi-Go]

Does anyone likes to explore tentapillars or caves? I'd like to hear their perspective too. 

I don't. There's a little thing I heard people call an atrium bridge that always spawns close to it. Here I marked it. It seems pretty pointless as the atrium isn't close enough to teleport from it half the time. Seems like it's only used for void walking. 

I was thinking maybe tentapillar should just spawn here specifically?

[ShadowDuelist]

IMO The ancient key should “lead you” to the atrium showing the tentapillar’s location and the ancient gate itself. Even more if they ever remove voidwalking.

It also makes sense from a lore perspective that the key itself is also cursed and “wants” to open the gate, or that “them” are showing you what to do.
The area right behind the entrance to the gate’s arena should probably spawn one of those stone reading tablets and should strongly hint the collect 8 fossils and bring the shadow atrium thingies. 

It could also hint that the gate is the way out of the constant, which would end up being a lie (or a partial truth) justifying why the survivors are accepting to do that in first place.

[Well-met]

it's not supposed to be found fast.

[grm9]

12 minutes ago, Well-met said:

it's not supposed to be found fast

that's why you can find it in from less than a day to 5+ days depending on pure luck

[Jimothywastaken]

1 hour ago, Well-met said:

it's not supposed to be found fast.

the issue i have is that finding it is completely reliant on luck like you might get a world where its the first tentapillar you see next to your cave stairs but you could also get really bad luck where its in the cave swamp or something not near ruins or any cave stairs

my issues with the current tentapillar system stem 100% from how it is complete luck to find it and while rng does have a place in dst i dont think it should be present with this

if you had another possible solution i am open to hearing it though

5 hours ago, Moonatik said:

How is to be a new player going blind in this game ? We could maybe play all our life and never discover some places, like the atrium. 

gonna be 100% honest i didnt even think about new players when it came to my suggestions as the atrium and fuelweaver arent really new player activities though teaching new players that the atrium does exist and how to find it is something i would like to see (maybe some ancient murals showing that a tentapillar leads to the atrium idk)

5 hours ago, Moonatik said:

Like ONI, is Don't starve intuitive ? Does it have to be ? 

I hate spoilers, but for DST or ONI, I checked some guides, because for these games specifically, I don't mind. Even when you know what to do, it's still very hard to accomplish things.

i havent played a lot of oni so i cant speak to that but dont starve is fairly intuitive in some aspects like the crockpot is easy to grasp but when it comes to boss related activities dst is very cryptic and wiki reliant and im pretty supportive of the idea of making knowledge like summoning misery or starting moonstorms not require a wiki and be pretty easy to figure out in game and if a new player was informed in game of the tentapillars being important and the muddy biome tentapillar always lead to atrium which would make the dots connecting feel good for the new player and make the game a smidge more streamlined for the old players

5 hours ago, Moonatik said:

Do you realize that DST is a fkn hard game ? Too much maybe ? Are they all crazy at KLEI ? 

I didn't play since long, but there's still 7 tentacles right ? If you try one, you try two, so 5 left. Is it really too hard ? Or worst, boring ?

while theres a whole discussion to be had when it comes to dst's difficulty i really dont think streamlining something a lot of people agree is annoying would make the game easier in any substantial way as you still have to fight the tentapillar all my changes attempt to do is just remove the middleman of mindlessly wandering around 
and trying to find the correct tentapillar is boring yes

5 hours ago, Moonatik said:

I don't know. But the changes you're asking for, are really impactful, in my opinion. Too much important to fix it with a simple QoL

honestly making something rng based consistent is a fairly big change but larger changes have been made in qol updates so i think its fine 

[Gashzer]

Just use this client mod to reveal the map then lazy explorer hop over to the atrium. Problem solved.. unless you are a console player then rip.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2263010171

[Jakepeng99]

Shadow tentacle pillar.

4 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Just use this client mod to reveal the map then lazy explorer hop over to the atrium. Problem solved.. unless you are a console player then rip.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2263010171

People who use these mods are cheaters

[Gashzer]

Just now, Jakepeng99 said:

People who use these mods are cheaters

Yup but its on the steam workshop so it can't be that bad. And many people use mods to make other aspects of the game easier like geoplacement for easier megabasing or action queue to make picking things up easier. This mod is just a way to make exploration easier. No harm in using it

[grm9]

1 hour ago, Gashzer said:

Just use this client mod to reveal the map then lazy explorer hop over to the atrium. Problem solved.. unless you are a console player then rip.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2263010171

the entire point of suggesting things here is to be able to do them without mods, getting to atrium that way isn't fun imo which is why i want them to make it more fun, and since seeing where a tentacle pillar is or adding something that you need to do or kill to get to atrium requires installing server mods onto every server that i play on, i'd want that to be included in the game

[Jakepeng99]

23 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Yup but its on the steam workshop so it can't be that bad. And many people use mods to make other aspects of the game easier like geoplacement for easier megabasing or action queue to make picking things up easier. This mod is just a way to make exploration easier. No harm in using it

Do it on your own server or a friends its fine, but on multiplayer on other servers it is big mega cheating.

Huge collossal advantage. 

[grm9]

23 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

but on multiplayer on other servers it is big mega cheating

tbf the game isn't competitive

24 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

Huge collossal advantage

you can find most stuff quickly without it by knowing how world generates, it's just salt and moon quay pretty much

[Gashzer]

1 hour ago, grm9 said:

the entire point of suggesting things here is to be able to do them without mods, getting to atrium that way isn't fun imo which is why i want them to make it more fun, and since seeing where a tentacle pillar is or adding something that you need to do or kill to get to atrium requires installing server mods onto every server that i play on, i'd want that to be included in the main game

Until Klei fixes the issue, that client mod is a good temp fix.

[cybers2001]

It really doesn't take that long to find the right tentapillar. The past few worlds I've been unlucky and had to try every tentapillar and it still took no more than a day's worth of effort each time.

[AliceShiki]

2 hours ago, Gashzer said:

Just use this client mod to reveal the map then lazy explorer hop over to the atrium. Problem solved.. unless you are a console player then rip.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2263010171

Never mind that you're just bringing your beef with grm9 to a completely different an unrelated thread...

Discussions about changes to the game are made because people want the base game to be better. Discussions about what mods you want to use to make your life more convenient are meant for different topics... Like that one topic made very recently about what mods you use. Feel free to share your favorite mods there.

Otherwise, at least keep your beef with another user localized to the thread where the beef started. It's just counterproductive to the discussion to have you bringing those things up in different thread when you don't even use the mod yourself just for the sake of continuing your beef with grm9. Let people discuss how they'd like the game to be improved without this kind of thing interrupting the discussion.

And if you feel like client mods shouldn't be allowed in Klei public servers, you can always make a thread in the Suggestions and Feedback subforum asking Klei to make some servers where all mods are disallowed on top of the servers they already make. Klei can consider that suggestion, just like how they once made a server with the Uncompromising Mod in it due to public feedback (even if that ended up not going that well).

[Cassielu]

15 hours ago, finn from human said:

Yeah I think the atrium probably suffers most from the "this is intuitive because we just added it so you see it in the patchnotes" issue that a good bit of ANR has. The only reason to know tentapillars lead to the atrium is either reading the wiki, or being there to see the change and so it stands out because it's new.

The problem here may not be as serious as you think. the rare Wormhole islands in the DS single-player version, and the islands in Adventure Mode both work well. If only people had beaten the big tentacles once, they would naturally understand all this.

The question "how do those players who have the key/heart/fossil know the location of the atrium" is a classic intellectual curse in itself.

For new players who don't know anything, isn't the Key just what they got through their random exploration? Just keep doing the same thing and they will naturally find the atrium too. There is not much difference between finding a key and finding an atrium to them, and the order of precedence between the two is not fixed. I once saw one of them identify the Atrium as the Labyrinth he read from community and try to find the Ancient Guardian in it.

 

People claim that for new players, we should know the location of the atrium after obtaining the Ancient Key, which is not true. It‘s only for their own, because they can't learn how to find the Atrium efficient from RNG, it's a veterans problem, instead of new player problem. Just as no one ever considers those new player who never went to the ruins before finding the Atrium first.

[Gashzer]

35 minutes ago, AliceShiki said:

Never mind that you're just bringing your beef with grm9 to a completely different an unrelated thread...

Discussions about changes to the game are made because people want the base game to be better. Discussions about what mods you want to use to make your life more convenient are meant for different topics... Like that one topic made very recently about what mods you use. Feel free to share your favorite mods there.

Otherwise, at least keep your beef with another user localized to the thread where the beef started. It's just counterproductive to the discussion to have you bringing those things up in different thread when you don't even use the mod yourself just for the sake of continuing your beef with grm9. Let people discuss how they'd like the game to be improved without this kind of thing interrupting the discussion.

And if you feel like client mods shouldn't be allowed in Klei public servers, you can always make a thread in the Suggestions and Feedback subforum asking Klei to make some servers where all mods are disallowed on top of the servers they already make. Klei can consider that suggestion, just like how they once made a server with the Uncompromising Mod in it due to public feedback (even if that ended up not going that well).

The mod is a great temporary solution to the problem Jimothywastaken has created the thread about. This atrium discussion has happened many times on these forums and klei still hasnt done anything about it. This client mod is related to the topic at hand.

And tbh me and grm9 have a right to bicker in whatever thread we want. Its all feedback for Klei from 2 people with very different mindsets. Both of us bounce ideas off each other even if we completely disagree with each other.

You can not tell me where or where not to post things. 

Neither grm9 or me has tried to stop anyone from speaking in any thread unlike what you are trying to do right now.

You may want to re-read the forum guidelines before making a post targetting me.

[grm9]

4 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

This client mod is related to the topic at hand

you only brought it up to annoy others by trying to make considering using that mod fine look odd and reasonless by bringing up reasons that no one except you mentioned 

4 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

You may want to re-read the forum guidelines