Jerky complaint

[Frosty_Mentos]

2 minutes ago, Gi-Go said:

I never use drying racks because picking animation is too long. I wish you could dry 3 items at one drying rack and then collect them all at once. 

For now I'd rather use green shrooms, cactus and banana shakes. 

That is so valid for a point. Increasing drying units per rack would increase their value greatly too imo. Even if jerky will end up slightly mid for a food, it'll still be faster to dry like that than having done nothing about it.

It's already kinda pathetic that when we wanna dry food we can only use one food unit per rack. we can plant 9 potatoes in same space as a rack, or shroom planter even would benefit more than a rack. Rack WAS good back when bundles didn't exist - now it kinda just exists as poor side content atm.

... tbh I changed my mind. Don't buff jerky, or do it if you think it's better - or increase drying rack stack use per hook. It shouldn't be too hard to kinda copy past jerky into one rack and edit a bit looking like few pieces stuck together of meat to turned to jerky, right? If not that then might as well stick with the idea of having preserved food to be more long lasting. OR BOTH! Both would make my day.

[abrocator]

On 3/23/2024 at 7:48 PM, Gi-Go said:

I never use drying racks because picking animation is too long. I wish you could dry 3 items at one drying rack and then collect them all at once. 

For now I'd rather use green shrooms, cactus and banana shakes. 

This is it. Jerky is well-balanced. But making them is too much of a hassle. Arguably both in the early and mid-game and definitely in the late game.

Late game needs a better drying option. Doesn’t have to be a multi-dry rack. They could also come up with something totally different like a moisture-absorbing (AoE) herbivore mob or something.

[Masked Koopa]

(Apologies in advance for the long response, I have a lot to say about food balance)

On 3/22/2024 at 2:15 AM, chirsg said:

the difference between stuffed eggplant or seafood gumbo is that jerky requires a completely different structure. And there's a concept of "Trap" dishes. All of the mentioned dishes are traps. You cook them uninformed and you're punished for lack of knowledge in the game.

I personally disagree with that approach, but it's the result of those dishes. You've been punished because you do not have encyclopaedic knowledge of the game.

It would be sad if jerky racks followed suit. To have an entire structure to function as a noob trap, or even an intermediate trap would be heartbreaking. 
Preserved meats has served antiquated humanity. We probably wouldn't have canada as a nation if not for pemmican. In the world of dried meats, jerky being made to be a pathetic resort in the face of a magic pocket fridge. It' really is tragic 

I really don't agree with this on a conceptual basis. Seafood Gumbo specifically is an example of a dish just being complete nonsense as a result of how Klei tried to buff fish meat. Seafood gumbo is a genuinely really good dish, giving good HP and sanity with decent hunger to boot. The issue, as many know, is that because Klei added meat value to fish meat, you end up making surf n' turf unless you use the only thing in the game with fish value but no meat... Eel. Which is nonsense because 1: Eel isn't even from the ocean, these are freshwater cave eels. And 2: Eel already has an exclusive dish - Unagi. This one isn't even so much a balance issue as Klei just straight up making a mistake that they for some reason don't remedy.


On the other hand, Stuffed Eggplant is an example of a "punishment" or "Trap" that doesn't make any thematic sense. Dishes like Monster Lasagna or Leafloaf make sense as they prevent the player from accessing meaty stew without using less easily available meats like fish or large meat or morsels. The player is rewarded for using them either with filler, or by using a variety of meats to circumvent the downsides of these meats. I don't personally have any issue with dishes like these because they serve a good purpose in encouraging players to seek many sources for their food, as well as give players a way to theorycraft an efficient meal. I personally get a lot of enjoyment out of figuring out how to concoct a Meaty stew from a variety of different meats. One of my favorite recipes is 2 frog legs, 1 monster meat and 1 leafy meat, as it feels like I am gaming the system, by turning an assortment of random gross meat into a hearty meal.

Stuffed Eggplant on the other hand is similar to Jerky in that it is a representative of an entire crop type. Crops like potato and toma root are significantly easier to grow while having essentially the same stats as eggplant. In order to truly stand out, eggplant would need a unique crock pot dish that brings value via filler or via powerful stats. Instead we get a dish that's objectively bad for literally no reason. I have to ask - what other food item in the game punishes the player with its exclusive dish? The only examples are things that are A: specifically very easily to get and B: usually presented to the player as being somehow 'nasty'. A player overusing monster meat probably isn't going to be surprised to find out that the game won't let them get away with spamming monster meat. A player overusing leafy meat probably isn't gonna be surprised that spamming this weird green meat produces this green goo that isn't nice to eat. What conclusion is a player making stuffed eggplant supposed to draw? Don't make stuffed eggplant?

At least with Durian the fruit is specifically presented to the player as a 'nasty' fruit, and it uses the same punishment mechanics as monster meat. That isn't to say I think Durian shouldn't be changed, but I think it could work well as a crop that barely consumes any nutrients, and/or grows fast and/or is always in season. A weedlike crop that balances out being easy to grow with poor stats and not allowing multiple in the same crock pot.
 

______________________________________________

My wider point here is that I don't think Klei is actually intending to rebalance food at all. Throughout the past few years, we have seen many things get changed, but unless we count guardian horns stacking, NONE of them were related to food stats. Not even new foods added during betas get rebalanced. It's possible that this is because they'd rather do a wide-scale rebalance of all foods at once, but whether it's because of that or because they just fundamentally hate changing foods in any way, asking for Jerky specifically doesn't really seem likely to work out. I don't think the reason they very clearly ignored the barnacle food suggestions on my ocean rebalance post was because they looked through all of them and decided that all of them were fine or served some greater purpose as a punishment food. You might be able to persuade them to allow dried foods in the bearger bin though. Maybe.

[cropo]

I think Jerky does indeed need a buff, but only the eating animation. Jerky is consumed with the squat-down, eat, and wipe mouth motion which makes it horribly unfit for combat. It's vastly outperformed by lureplant healing foods in accessibility and amount, and Dragonpies have the quick eat emote.

Jerky should use the fast eating animation, as I don't think it justifies using the slower eating animation; the rest of it can stay the way it is but it's the eating speed that really cripples it.

[Szczuku]

I don't think jerky or the drying rack needs any changes. It is already good enough at what it does

[DegenerateFurry]

On 3/21/2024 at 9:15 AM, chirsg said:

I agree that jerky should be looked into. It's not worth the material or time to make drying racks any longer. as for the refreshing of spoilage argument, I'd like to present the concept of 'Double handling.'

Double handling is an occurrence when a task is done twice because of mismanagement of stock in a logistical setting. It's double the manpower for half the work. Picking up, putting down, and then doing it again because there was an error. It is literally paying employees for their energy at a loss.

 

This is what happens when you use jerky racks to refresh spoilage on spoiled meats. What you have to account for is each rack takes a full harvesting animation to remove from the rack. When I see people do this, my actual real life experience in logistics bubbles up and honestly, it is a remarkable waste of time in redundancy.

 

You're better off letting it rot or turning the meat into eggs. 
Factually, there is a huge flaw in jerky racks. The existence of the polar bearger bin honestly makes racks completely obsolete. There is no point in building racks anymore. 

If it stays the same, racks are honestly are as good as forgotten. This is speaking from a perspective of qualified experience. 

the difference between stuffed eggplant or seafood gumbo is that jerky requires a completely different structure. And there's a concept of "Trap" dishes. All of the mentioned dishes are traps. You cook them uninformed and you're punished for lack of knowledge in the game.

I personally disagree with that approach, but it's the result of those dishes. You've been punished because you do not have encyclopaedic knowledge of the game.

It would be sad if jerky racks followed suit. To have an entire structure to function as a noob trap, or even an intermediate trap would be heartbreaking. 
Preserved meats has served antiquated humanity. We probably wouldn't have canada as a nation if not for pemmican. In the world of dried meats, jerky being made to be a pathetic resort in the face of a magic pocket fridge. It' really is tragic 

The rack will always have a purpose on boats: converting ocean fish meat to large meat. This is handy for Warly boat base players since it lets you make dishes like meaty stew that require actual meat rather than fish.

[sudoku]

i wish the drying racks turned fish into dried fish or something rather than just jerky so they could still be used for seafood recipes.

i also think itd be cool to dry fruit as well... Drying rack refresh when? 

[Mr Giggio]

I don't know how to feel about jerky cuz like, drying racks are expensive structures to rush and when u have plenty u don't need them anymore cuz too much resources around to play at this point, also the amount is important - doing one or two drying racks doesn't solve the problem, doing five feels okay but then a whole day of ingredients just to do those and in the early days crock pots itself requires all the twigs u have.

So in general Meat gives back not enough status IMO, kelp does cuz really quick to dry and easy to harvest so it makes it rewarding.

Maybe more ingredients to dry with specific resources like the vines in Hamlet for the walking stick? Dunno

 

[Primalflower]

On 3/21/2024 at 6:15 AM, Masked Koopa said:

hot garbage like stuffed eggplant, seafood gumbo, or barnacle dishes

how are barnacle dishes hot garbage? barnacle linguine & pita have pretty good stats for very cheap, and like, even if you for some reason avoid the ocean as much as possible, a stretch of seaweeds usually spawns very close to pearl due to her being in the deep ocean - it doesn't really take much effort at all to amass lots of barnacles and from there you have several dishes that serve for every stat (barnacle linguine restores 20 whole as s sanity)

like you could argue they're less versatile than X or Y meta dish but even if they were somehow objectively worse (which is something i disagree with because they're not going to be the best in absolutely every gameplay scenario) i would still disagree with the notion that they're totally worthless

[Reiko24]

On 3/21/2024 at 1:21 PM, landromat said:

You forgot time meat was in a fridge. Best perk of Drying racks is restoring spoilage value to 100% even if meat was 1%. Great food, great structure, no buffs needed

spoilage when hoarding food and food shortage aren't a problem in Don't Starve Together tho, so it's unimportant

[Frosty_Mentos]

On 5/10/2024 at 6:25 AM, Primalflower said:

how are barnacle dishes hot garbage? barnacle linguine & pita have pretty good stats for very cheap, and like, even if you for some reason avoid the ocean as much as possible, a stretch of seaweeds usually spawns very close to pearl due to her being in the deep ocean - it doesn't really take much effort at all to amass lots of barnacles and from there you have several dishes that serve for every stat (barnacle linguine restores 20 whole as s sanity)

like you could argue they're less versatile than X or Y meta dish but even if they were somehow objectively worse (which is something i disagree with because they're not going to be the best in absolutely every gameplay scenario) i would still disagree with the notion that they're totally worthless

Personally would say that barnacles are one of the best food alternatives just that you can get them in bulk at any evening with proper setup. It's not the best for early game, maybe for mid and later game it's a decent choice as one of more fancy foods that can be mass produced.

 

4 hours ago, Reiko24 said:

spoilage when hoarding food and food shortage aren't a problem in Don't Starve Together tho, so it's unimportant

Not to mention that bundles eventually will solve that issue and eliminate food spoilage issues in general. Longer lasting jerkies would just be kinda neat to have imo, motivator for newbies to use if they can't get bundles and motivator to have drying racks to be a lot more dependable with a staple and safer supply of food.

I know it's a niche thing I'm tackling with this topic and something being changed or buffed is more than welcome in my perspective. I like jerky, but I'd like to like it more right now.

[Reiko24]

2 hours ago, Frosty_Mentos said:

Personally would say that barnacles are one of the best food alternatives just that you can get them in bulk at any evening with proper setup. It's not the best for early game, maybe for mid and later game it's a decent choice as one of more fancy foods that can be mass produced.

 

Not to mention that bundles eventually will solve that issue and eliminate food spoilage issues in general. Longer lasting jerkies would just be kinda neat to have imo, motivator for newbies to use if they can't get bundles and motivator to have drying racks to be a lot more dependable with a staple and safer supply of food.

I know it's a niche thing I'm tackling with this topic and something being changed or buffed is more than welcome in my perspective. I like jerky, but I'd like to like it more right now.

Like, obviously Bundling Wrap is 1000 times stronger than Polar Bearger Bin, but it's all about COMFORT. If you purely wanted item strength, you would use a Bundling Wrap.

 

I just want Jerky to go into Polar Bearger Bin and I will be happy. It's all about comfort, not strength.

[benfroyobro9381]

I think drying racks could be two rope instead of three; three rope is a bit too expensive to dry one meat. I also think being able to put them into salt boxes or increasing their spoilage time is justified. Someone mentioned a faster eating animation which is 100% valid since they give such little health compared to other options and but have similar eating times.

Jerky definitely has a use but out of all of my food options in my late game base: farm plots, fish farms, lureplants, berry bushes, seaweed, banana bushes, pig farm, etc, drying racks are my in my bottom three in terms of usage. Drying racks are good in a vaccum but have really been power crept and are being boxed out in their own niche. 

To elaborate, I feel like options like Polar Bearger Bin and Bundling Wrap are too good at Jerky's game; preserving food by taking meat from salt boxes and turning them into 100% jerky and into a fridge. They aren't the best at health, speedrunning/convenience, preservation, sanity, hunger, and they aren't a great jack of all trades food. 

I hope Klei considers giving Jerky and other neglected food options some love. I think food or consumables is one of the most competitive elements in the game and so many items slip through the cracks. This isn't purely about the meta or efficiency for me. It's about diversity and encouraging more players to try new things. 

[Well-met]

1 hour ago, benfroyobro9381 said:

I think drying racks could be two rope instead of three; three rope is a bit too expensive to dry one meat. 

its not one meat its literally a permanent structure that does all the work for you.

you lots should stop trying to make jerky unbalanced.

[grm9]

3 minutes ago, Well-met said:

you lots should stop trying to make jerky unbalanced

it and all other food sources that require setting stuff up are already suboptimal 

[Frosty_Mentos]

5 hours ago, Well-met said:

you lots should stop trying to make jerky unbalanced.

yea like, that's gonna destroy the game's "balance" and it's "balancing", as if there were any to begin with. It's none about that, it's about more what feels right than what might feel "balanced".

Counter to your balance complaint - you can dig mushrooms without consequences and lowest cost, or cook food for same or better stats for the bulk of those ingredients which ain't hard to get. Case and point.

[Bumber64]

Jerky was good back in DS when it never spoiled if you left it on the rack, so you created a bunch of small jerky to last through winter. Now that it perishes and you can just grow crops throughout winter, it's really just not worth the effort. And then Moon Quay went and added banana shakes.

Might as well just turn your spoiling meat into eggs nowadays. If those rot, you can turn them into cannonballs.

20 hours ago, Frosty_Mentos said:

Personally would say that barnacles are one of the best food alternatives just that you can get them in bulk at any evening with proper setup. It's not the best for early game, maybe for mid and later game it's a decent choice as one of more fancy foods that can be mass produced.

Isn't it a hassle to get to where the sea stacks are? If you could create your own sea stacks, that'd be one thing, but barnacles lose out to anything you can stick right in your base (e.g., lureplant) for me.

[Frosty_Mentos]

2 hours ago, Bumber64 said:

Isn't it a hassle to get to where the sea stacks are? If you could create your own sea stacks, that'd be one thing, but barnacles lose out to anything you can stick right in your base (e.g., lureplant) for me.

Depends on where you base and if there's a decent amount of sea stacks not far.

[Bumber64]

On 5/16/2024 at 9:11 AM, Frosty_Mentos said:

Depends on where you base and if there's a decent amount of sea stacks not far.

IIRC, we're getting replantable sea stacks next update? That certainly changes things.

[Jakepeng99]

23 hours ago, Bumber64 said:

IIRC, we're getting replantable sea stacks next update? That certainly changes things.

They never said that i think.

[mmmmmmmmmmm]

On 3/21/2024 at 1:21 PM, Frosty_Mentos said:

Okay, it's a strong food, but for a "long lasting food" it lasts the same amount of bacon and eggs??

it helps with the food cycle, first, you gather meat, use all that you can, jerkey the remaining, its fresh again, your jerky gets stale, make bacon and eggs, its a great way to reserve meats FOR the bacon and eggs, not a way to replace the bacon and eggs

[DaddyMemeMaster]

I find it to be a huge waste of time to even try make drying racks. Jerky itself doesn't suck, but mass producing it does.

It's just in a weird spot where it's useful, but it doesn't compete with other options.

In the past before farming, rift, and new recipes were added I'd never even tried to make drying racks because of how much more effective it was to go make a Bunny Farm, and Bee Farm for Pierogi, and Taffy

Nowadays I can go to Lunar Island by day 7 to get kelp, and go wait one day at Monkey Island for Pierogi, and Banana Shakes all before day 10.

These grow all year round, and yes even in summer.

In this case Drying Racks make zero sense to me because I'd need at least 10-15 to even stock up on enough healing, and sanity for the coming fights.

So 30 sticks, 20 charcoal, and 30 rope(90 grass) to have at least 10.

And I'd still need to gather non monster meat to fill it up with Pigs, Bunnies, Bunny men, Koala, Catcoon, and now wait a few days to get Jerky.

Assuming no ones been damaged, or is going insane we can have 2 jerky each for the 4 of us...

This isn't viable, or productive, and on top of the huge rope cost it just takes too long to get enough for everyone.

And this is all before I kill champion by day 60. Meaning Bearger Bin by day 80.

 

I only can think of 3 ways to help it fit more in the meta:

- Reduce Drying Rack Cost to one rope.(I say this because the actual drying rack has only 1 rope on it.)

- Allow us to store Dried Foods into the Salt Box for prolonged Storage.

- Or add dried Fruits, Veggies, and Fish for more ways to use it instead of Kelp, and Meat.

[grm9]

7 minutes ago, DaddyMemeMaster said:

fit more in the meta

it's best to not mention meta because everything that you've named isn't remotely related to meta, because if meta means killing bosses quickly, it's best to not make a base except an alchemy and maybe a furnace, since you get all the food as a byproduct of doing stuff or find it on the way e.g. cooked monster meat and glands, honey, berries etc., neither does meta matter since you'd do what's most fun, and getting charcoal, twigs and grass for something that only requires you to put stuff onto it and take it back 2 days after isn't

13 minutes ago, DaddyMemeMaster said:

I'd need at least 10-15 to even stock up on enough healing, and sanity for the coming fights

sanity food is only useful for like 2 fights and you can use jellybeans btw

[DaddyMemeMaster]

1 hour ago, grm9 said:

it's best to not mention meta because everything that you've named isn't remotely related to meta

 

sanity food is only useful for like 2 fights and you can use jellybeans btw

Just meant it as a general term for effective food options. I'll see about clarifying.

 

I play with 3 people

1 decent, but struggles still, 1 new, but good at games, and 1 with well.. has motor, and memory problems.

 

In my case those 2 days to gather those resources is spent making Healing, Getting Sanity Food, Going to Revive, getting Booster Shots or turning those same resources to ash for Salves, and rope for Log Suits.

These guys struggle with combat, and sanity outside of bosses(which maybe I should have clarified), in this scenario Jerky isn't viable, and would take too long, and take from resources needed elsewhere.

And even if I played solo this method still covers all my stats, and is my go to.

I only need 1 other outside resource: Monster Meat, or Morsels.

And Banana Shake can be made with twigs.

Again, all before day 10 which non of which I'd spend rushing, just mapping the land, sailing, and gathering resources, and which also just so happens to be when I set up base, get glommer, and my group starts struggling with their stats.

This method keeps things fun, and productive for everyone, and most importantly they get to feel confident in learning the game, and going out on their own. Like I'm a proud mama bird, lol.

 

However I did forget entirely about cactus, and Jellybeans for me would take too long, and requires a boss to be farmed which in itself needs Healing, and costs resources but they are an excellent addition to my current method, just not worth rushing, imo.

 

It just makes Drying Racks feel redundant, and I really do want Drying Racks to feel enjoyable to use, but in their current state they just fall short, and don't compete with other options in terms of time spent and cost, and lategame viability.

[chirsg]

On 5/24/2024 at 12:06 AM, DaddyMemeMaster said:

 

 

I only can think of 3 ways to help it fit more in the meta:

- Reduce Drying Rack Cost to one rope.(I say this because the actual drying rack has only 1 rope on it.)

- Allow us to store Dried Foods into the Salt Box for prolonged Storage.

- Or add dried Fruits, Veggies, and Fish for more ways to use it instead of Kelp, and Meat.

I disagree. Jerky is a good food with bearger bin removed from the equation. Drying rack cost be damned. Salt boxes are a bit of a fallacy too. It means jerky is anchored to a single place. besides, in real life, you don't store jerky in salt. You cure it with salt, but you do not store it. The 3rd suggestion is really just flavor. I'm not opposed to it, but I just think 'why?'

 

Jerky needs either a longer base lifespan or a place in the bearger bin. We don't need to complicate the suggestion.

On 5/24/2024 at 12:19 AM, grm9 said:

because if meta means killing bosses quickly,

>Speedrunners.

lmao.

 

Meta can refer to things at the end of the game too, speedrunner. How productive certain tasks are with time spend doing a certain task and the general reward for it.

There is a flowchart that rises to the top when day to day is concerned and jerky has been outclassed as a means of producing food when it comes to space and storage. Thus, not fitting in the meta of end game logistics.

 

Almost everything in videogames has a most efficient way of operating outside of "Killing bosses faster", Speedrunner.