Skill Spotlight: Wigfrid and Willow (Available Now!)

[Yuuko]

1 hour ago, shaurun said:

Continuing share my Willow skills impression part 3.

 

I've tried Bernie tree and got actually disappointed with it.

Yes and no.

1 hour ago, shaurun said:

Also the big problem with it is that you have to travel with Bernie running around while Bernie is actually very stupid follower. People use boars between 2 land branches, Bernie can't cross such a boat bariiers: he jumps on the boat, but won't follow if you jump to the land from the other side. Instead if jumps off the boat to the initial side of the land. He can even try to cross the land by foot and eventually deactivate. Also he doesn't follow you into worm hole. Small Bernie is not likely have his regen and no regen while in inventory. So small Bernie will still fight creatures losing hp and has no way to restore it, the skill simply won't work withoput Bearly Sane, but Bearly Sane forces Bernie to fight a lot nullifying his patch skills.

I have managed to make 20% Bernie to 50% Bernie but it required much more efford than creating 1 real patch for 5 100% Bernies. Absolutely bad skill. Ah, also I was annoyed traveling around bees at spring with active Bernie, When you just want to pass it through... you have to fight bees.

So a new change that was not included in the patch notes - you can click Bernie to calm him down returning him to item form.  Do this so you can scoop him up to travel.

1 hour ago, shaurun said:

Burning Bernie - haven't tried honestly. 8  skills to unclock is a punishment.

Among 15 skills, you need 6 bernie skills to unlock affinity benie and 7 lighter skills to unlock affinity fire spell.

6+1+7+1=15 (accurate). So if I'd like to have burning bernie, I have to forget  about Fire-Raiser. It's okay since that a choice. But gameplay wise, it's much more interesting to use firespells than hide behind urning Bernie and patch it constantly. If I'd like to forget about Lunar/Shadow Bernie and pick Burning Bernie, I still have to forget about Fire-Raiser. Why? Is it OP? 

Burning Bernie is actually a really good skill - it puts Bernie up there with Abi for handling groups.  Unlike Abi its not a dot, its reflect damage so its effect is based on enemy attack speed - but its strong.  I don't think its over costed b/c it is really good.  imo the problem is that it is the only skill on Bernie's side that actually does something.  He really needs something cool there that doesn't lock you out of dual affinities - I think like a single target damage steroid.

As for healing - regen is bad.  It kinda has to be, because if it was strong enough to overcome the damage then he'd just have infinite health lol.  We do need a way to heal him.  Sewing kits are great, but that requires you scoop him back up.  I think something like paying ember to heal him while he's out would be cool.

Edited December 22, 2023 by Shosuko

[shaurun]

4 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

So a new change that was not included in the patch notes - you can click Bernie to calm him down returning him to item form.  Do this so you can scoop him up to travel.

That What I was doing actually all the time... But then regen doesn't apply, acceleration is not needed. So it's a problem with skills. Picking Bernie helps to save him but absolutely doesn't cooperate with his skill tree.

Also sometimes I want Bernie stay acrive but clicling space near him will calm him down which is annoying, I have to be very catious with pressing space nearby.

8 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

As for healing - regen is bad.  It kinda has to be, because if it was strong enough to overcome the damage then he'd just have infinite health lol.  We do need a way to heal him.  Sewing kits are great, but that requires you scoop him back up.  I think something like paying ember to heal him while he's out would be cool.

Why to have regen in skill tree then? It should be removed OR it should be a viable option outside combat. If pacified Bernies in inventory would restore, it would solve the problem.

[Yuuko]

8 minutes ago, shaurun said:

That What I was doing actually all the time... But then regen doesn't apply, acceleration is not needed. So it's a problem with skills. Picking Bernie helps to save him but absolutely doesn't cooperate with his skill tree.

Also sometimes I want Bernie stay acrive but clicling space near him will calm him down which is annoying, I have to be very catious with pressing space nearby.

Why to have regen in skill tree then? It should be removed OR it should be a viable option outside combat. If pacified Bernies in inventory would restore, it would solve the problem.

I think restoring in item form isn't the way b/c at that point we already have sewing kits for 100% recovery, but I do think some ember healing while he's out would help even if it was just 20% heal or something.  Especially b/c we can't see his health the way Wendy / Abi can it would really help my peace of mind to at least bump him a bit for extended fights lol.

I know picking him up and putting him down might seem like a pain, but I don't really experience that.  I'm not trying to keep Bernie out much.  I drop him when I need a decoy and scoop him back up when I don't.  He is a very unreliable tank and can get in the way for boss fights, and its not like he lends much damage.  Like I said the big thing the Bernie tree needed was another active thing, like Burning Frenzy but for the bear like maybe for the first minute after being dropped he deals double damage or something.  Something that makes it a bit more rewarding to deploy him.

His affinity skill does help, but I kinda question even going double affinity with him...  rather I just max out all fire skills including lighter radius for comfort and let Bernie be same old Bernie.  Remember 1 point in sanity is important to let him come out in lunacy, but otherwise I don't feel any of his skills are really that great :\ 

Edited December 22, 2023 by Shosuko

[shaurun]

3 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

 

I forgot to mention one positive thing)

His tree makes sense when you join server late but need to be boss fight just from the start. Yesterduy I joined public server with lunar storms active and people were preparing for Celectial Champion fight, so I was able to join it and help with Bernie skill tree. If I'd put everything into fire spells, I would need to farm so won't manage to join that fast.

 

Also another point is that upon death Willow will loose her embers and in case she resurrects somewhere not close and fast enough, her embers would be lost. I died in caves due to worm with 80 embers, then returned to above world, resurrected and after I came back to my corpse there was no embers. Bernie however would stay there (I hope he'll deactivate if you go away) so upon resurrection you would have Bernie as protector. So Bernie playstyle is worth it but skill tree is really poor.

[Mike23Ua]

So far I only have 3 skill points invested in Willows skill tree, and I’m already super confused about it.

Why does her lighter “Absorb” fires now? Like what gameplay purpose does that even serve besides maybe to help put out wildfires/Griefer fires?

Then there’s the whole “Fire Souls” thing, this is beyond complex, like I sincerely hope Klei isn’t expecting any noobs to figure this out without watching YouTube videos or reading WIKI guides- Because Holy Heck…

I have to first set an enemy on fire, & then proceed to kill it whilst it is still on fire so it drops souls?

And doing so involves switching between my lighter to hit the enemy with it and then back to a spear to kill it before the fire duration runs out?

Maybe when I unlock more of her perks it’ll all make sense, but for right now… it’s way more confusing than Wilson, Woodie, Wolfgang & Wormwoods skill trees.

[grm9]

2 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Why does her lighter “Absorb” fires now?

during the first few patches of the beta absorbing fires increased lighter durability but people just kept lighting stuff on fire, extinguishing it and repeating it until it's at full durability 

3 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

I have to first set an enemy on fire, & then proceed to kill it whilst it is still on fire so it drops souls?

you'd need to intentionally wait for the enemy to get extinguished in case of e.g. bees or spiders to kill them while they aren't burning after hitting them using the lighter 

4 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Maybe when I unlock more of her perks it’ll all make sense

there's a perk that increases burning duration which might make it easier for you to get embers if you somehow have issues with that 

[_zwb]

8 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Why does her lighter “Absorb” fires now? Like what gameplay purpose does that even serve besides maybe to help put out wildfires/Griefer fires?

To make fire more controlled, less destructive, and actually useable.

8 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

And doing so involves switching between my lighter to hit the enemy with it and then back to a spear to kill it before the fire duration runs out?

Just do the last hits with your lighter, oh wait, console players can't see mob health, you can't tell when it's the last hit. You have a point here, it can be problematic.

Also spear as your main weapon?

Edited December 22, 2023 by _zwb

[shaurun]

6 minutes ago, grm9 said:

during the first few patches of the beta absorbing fires increased lighter durability but people just kept lighting stuff on fire, extinguishing it and repeating it until it's at full durability 

description still says it refuels the lighter but it actually doesn't which means description is outdated.

[grm9]

7 minutes ago, _zwb said:

Just do the last hits with your lighter, oh wait, console players can't see mob health, you can't tell when it's the last hit. You have a point here, it can be problematic

you can still easily count hits when killing small enemies and it's pointless to kill enemies that have more than 500 health for embers, although it'd still be better to light the enemy using the first hit so they'll get finished off by fire instead of forcing you to wait or do 2-3 hits using the lighter instead of one ham bat hit

Edited December 22, 2023 by grm9

[shaurun]

13 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Why does her lighter “Absorb” fires now? Like what gameplay purpose does that even serve besides maybe to help put out wildfires/Griefer fires?

Absorbing is fun as for me, it's like in Harry Potter . I was intentionally setting important things like shadow manipulator on fire and extinguished it after it was so fun)

And yes Willow actually was antigriefer long ago despite everuone says. She had (and has) extinguish smoldering faster perk. So this is good improvement.

17 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

I have to first set an enemy on fire, & then proceed to kill it whilst it is still on fire so it drops souls?

I found it easier to just find a bee hive and beat bees to death with a torch. No switching required.

[Mike23Ua]

15 hours ago, shaurun said:

Absorbing is fun as for me, it's like in Harry Potter . I was intentionally setting important things like shadow manipulator on fire and extinguished it after it was so fun)

And yes Willow actually was antigriefer long ago despite everuone says. She had (and has) extinguish smoldering faster perk. So this is good improvement.

I found it easier to just find a bee hive and beat bees to death with a torch. No switching required.

I mean sure it has its uses.. but it also consumes lighter durability to put out fires that in most cases.. your going to actually want to stay lit.

Example: if you light a blade of grass for light through night, you can suck the flame back up.. but doing that requires you to stand in the vicinity of it, and then extinguishing it uses lighter durability which could’ve just been used as your mobile light source.

So the TL:DR- I’m not seeing the point of it unless just to look cool.

absorbing flames also seems to be the only way to collect the Embers, which again if your wanting to suck up an ember to restore lighter durability with, you have to use durability for the collecting of the ember.

Then there’s the elephant in the room that needs IMMEDIATE Addressing-

Where the heck did Willow get magical firepower’s to light fires at a distance with the power of her mind from?! This is something she did not have in solo DS… and it’s something that could’ve probably used a dedicated animated short to explain why it’s in DST.

Dont get me wrong, Fire Powers are cool and all, But without explanation as to where or how she obtained them, it absolutely butchers the canon story of Solo DS.

You mean to tell me all those times I Froze to death or died without a light source Willow was just too lazy to “Mind Bend” A floating fireball?!

I hope Klei gives us something… even if it’s just an updated Compendium Description where she meet up with Wortox and learned how to absorb & redistribute the “souls” out of flames.

[Yuuko]

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

I mean sure it has its uses.. but it also consumes lighter durability to put out fires that in most cases.. your going to actually want to stay lit.

Example: if you light a blade of grass for light through night, you can suck the flame back up.. but doing that requires you to stand in the vicinity of it, and then extinguishing it uses lighter durability which could’ve just been used as your mobile light source.

So the TL:DR- I’m not seeing the point of it unless just to look cool.

It depends.  I use it to light a tree on fire for warmth in winter, and then put it out b/c I don't actually want the tree to burn down.  I could just let it burn, but it is nice to have the option as the fire control character to get this perk.  It is also great if something you want burns, like if lightning strikes my boat or a wildfire starts a structure on fire that I can just "whewp" and put it out.  Its not going to replace all fire management, but it does the job for early / mid game well enough that I actually use it.

imo it does not matter that it consume durability b/c a single ember refuels the lighter for 45%.  It used to absorb flame to refuel, but imo this is better b/c I would drop 40 grass individually, use the 1 ember cast to light them all up and then absorb them for about the same return.  This just simplifies the process tbh, a qol before it ever hit live.

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

Then there’s the elephant in the room that needs IMMEDIATE Addressing-

Where the heck did Willow get magical firepower’s to light fires at a distance with the power of her mind from?!

From this update.

I know there has been a lot of extreme opinions about this update but as a post mortem imo it has landed pretty well.  Is it perfect?  No.  BUT is it actually bad?  Also no.

I think the biggest flaws were no final patch notes on launch, with several subtle changes that addressed player feedback that were easy to overlook combined with bugs that were never announced as bugs and were fixed in this patch without any attention drawn to them.  And that they did a Walter video, with skins for other characters instead of Wil and Wig...  For being their update they were only 2 lines of the update announcement...

Really aside from that its alright enough.  Bernie tree is bad, cd are bad, but Maxwell maxims can't be pissed she dares touch being a capable caster as she must default to playing as Wilson for several boss fights.

Edited December 23, 2023 by Yuuko

[WenericMember]

I remember back in Return of Them we'd reguarly get teaser images for the upcoming updates. Does anyone have any idea why they stopped doing that? It was a lot of fun trying to guess what they were related to

[grm9]

On 12/23/2023 at 2:57 AM, Yuuko said:

Maxwell maxims

who specifically? I haven't seen anyone using maxwell as an argument and saying that willow should just be worse than him    

Edited December 24, 2023 by grm9

[Yuuko]

On 12/24/2023 at 3:02 AM, grm9 said:

who specifically? I haven't seen anyone using maxwell as an argument and saying that willow should just be worse than him    

idk, go make a post about how Maxwell should have a cd on his prison spell that takes +10 seconds after it wears off and tell me how it goes lol

Edited January 15 by Yuuko

[grm9]

1 hour ago, Yuuko said:

idk, go make a post about how Maxwell should have a cd on his prison spell that takes +10 seconds after it wares off and tell me how it goes lol

i wouldn't want that, but i also wouldn't want willow spell cd 

[arubaro]

5 hours ago, WenericMember said:

I remember back in Return of Them we'd reguarly get teaser images for the upcoming updates. Does anyone have any idea why they stopped doing that? It was a lot of fun trying to guess what they were related to

I guess because people were super-hyped 3rd shard level with things that weren't so, even if the content was good, the community could create a disappointment feeling

[Yuuko]

6 hours ago, grm9 said:

i wouldn't want that, but i also wouldn't want willow spell cd 

Yeah well when I argued "Max doesn't have a cd, why should Willow" the response was how Maxwell was some extremely skill-dependent champ and how he's so awfully punished for having 75 health even though he can permanlock a boss and summon shadow minions to kill it 100% for the cost of a few nm fuel...  200 casts in a single stack of nm fuel lol

So yeah, bring it up with them - not me.

If Klei is suddenly big on balancing casters, they need to hot fix Maxwell.  Otherwise I feel they are just hating on Willow.

Edited December 24, 2023 by Yuuko

[ECS.98]

So, after playing around with the Wigfrid skill tree, i'm very pleased with Noble Mount III since the ability to retain inspiration is very useful on a daily basis, and i've been finding new and interesting uses for songs.

With that said, there's one problem when using the songs in a beefalo: The Battle Call Canister. The way this item works is that it drops to the ground when you open it so you can access it like a storage container, which conflicts with using songs on a beefalo since when you're in a beefalo you can't access containers... So right now, trying to use the canister while on a beefalo makes it drop to the ground and close, preventing Wigfrid from accessing the songs while mounted.

[Yuuko]

7 minutes ago, ECS.98 said:

So, after playing around with the Wigfrid skill tree, i'm very pleased with Noble Mount III since the ability to retain inspiration is very useful on a daily basis, and i've been finding new and interesting uses for songs.

With that said, there's one problem when using the songs in a beefalo: The Battle Call Canister. The way this item works is that it drops to the ground when you open it so you can access it like a storage container, which conflicts with using songs on a beefalo since when you're in a beefalo you can't access containers... So right now, trying to use the canister while on a beefalo makes it drop to the ground and close, preventing Wigfrid from accessing the songs while mounted.

Yeah I think it would be cool if it opened a radial menu instead of dropping b/c even when you're not mounted it just opens a container for you...  It would be better if you could use it more like a spell book to cast directly from.  Idk if there are other implications with this though... but yeah I feel you - the canister on a beef doesn't work very well.

[Mike23Ua]

So uhh Willows skills are supposed to be “Magical” Fires that do not spread and set other things on fire right??

Well uhh… I think Klei forgot to include the Christmas tree on the list of things that Willows Fireball ability can’t smoulder..

And the worst part about this whole experience has been that I’ve tried to put out the smoldering the normal way, and also by using the lighters “Absorb” power, and Because the ball of flame lasts a FULL DAY I just gave up and rolled the world back to before I cast the fireball too close to my fully decorated Christmas Tree.

If this remains this way, Willow can Grief players with Smoldering Christmas trees till her magical ball of fire extinguishes itself.

Edited December 30, 2023 by Mike23Ua

[grm9]

15 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

If this remains this way, Willow can Grief players with Smoldering Christmas trees till her magical ball of fire extinguishes itself

you can already burn someone's base and just keep lighting things right after they extinguish them and if they copied starcaller's staff's star code you can haunt willow's star to extinguish it 

[-Variant]

15 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Well uhh… I think Klei forgot to include the Christmas tree on the list of things that Willows Fireball ability can’t smoulder..

Fireball is specifically like, the one fire ability that doesn't make 'safe' fires.

16 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

If this remains this way, Willow can Grief players with Smoldering Christmas trees till her magical ball of fire extinguishes itself.

This is a super redundant attempt at griefing when anyone can craft a torch. A way to put it out early, sure, but it's not a grief tool.

[Yuuko]

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

So uhh Willows skills are supposed to be “Magical” Fires that do not spread and set other things on fire right??

Well uhh… I think Klei forgot to include the Christmas tree on the list of things that Willows Fireball ability can’t smoulder..

And the worst part about this whole experience has been that I’ve tried to put out the smoldering the normal way, and also by using the lighters “Absorb” power, and Because the ball of flame lasts a FULL DAY I just gave up and rolled the world back to before I cast the fireball too close to my fully decorated Christmas Tree.

If this remains this way, Willow can Grief players with Smoldering Christmas trees till her magical ball of fire extinguishes itself.

Haha sorry this happened lol.  Its kinda funny b/c early in the beta I recognized that the fireball can still spread fires - its often useful to start a spreading flame to burn some trees for charcoal.  There was a lot of talk in the beta forum about wanting Willow to still be able to create normal, spreadable fire and some suggestions were made and Klei actually responded with "Well, the fireball still starts normal flames."

Sorry the patch notes and release notes are not super clear about it, but now you know.  The fireball is unsafe around flammables, just like a dwarf star.  It will cause smolder and those fires can spread.

Edited December 30, 2023 by Yuuko

[arubaro]

15 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

So uhh Willows skills are supposed to be “Magical” Fires that do not spread and set other things on fire right??

Well uhh… I think Klei forgot to include the Christmas tree on the list of things that Willows Fireball ability can’t smoulder..

And the worst part about this whole experience has been that I’ve tried to put out the smoldering the normal way, and also by using the lighters “Absorb” power, and Because the ball of flame lasts a FULL DAY I just gave up and rolled the world back to before I cast the fireball too close to my fully decorated Christmas Tree.

If this remains this way, Willow can Grief players with Smoldering Christmas trees till her magical ball of fire extinguishes itself.

Funny that you wanted offscreen global wildfires to later rollback because you lose a decorative item for your own mistake xD