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The future for players of the game. What do you think will keep you invested?


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Not the future of the game. The nature of the game means people will filter in and out, because the wonder of the game in it's survival is undeniable. The progression of success in survival was always rewarding when I recall my early don't starve years. 

It's sink or swim at that point, either you stick to the game or you don't.

 

Throughout my time of playing don't starve together, I've seen a lot of people quit and never play again. 

To this day, I get messages from people who ask "How are you not bored of the game?" and follow with "I'm starting to get bored of the game"

I'll generally sink a large amount of hours in after a beta makes it in.

 

I've always stood by my opinion that the game slowly stops becoming a survival game the more you learn. If you know to stay warm, you won't freeze. If you know how to get food, you won't starve. If you know how to fight, you won't die to an ambush. 

You'll always have ample time to prepare for the next threat on the horizon.

I'll tag a suggestion about raising the difficulty in the game, but I admit, implemented wrong, it will just be a band-aid solution

Spoiler

Famines where plants do not grow for a year or more and animals become "Sickly" where they drop 1/2-1/3 of their meats. e.g. koalaphants will drop 4 meat and for creatures that drop 1 meat, they will only drop morsels.

 

But at this point, I don't think veterans will be caught by surprise.

I cannot possibly speak for every single veteran, not by a long shot and I don't even think I'm an ambassador for players like me, but I find that a lot of dst players including myself, treat this game as an animal crossing where you're able to die.

We build and we lose our minds when a new skin for building makes it into the game.

Falling boulders in standard earthquakes had to be the biggest blessing in disguise as pillars were added in response to the danger.

 

You'll be hard pressed to find bases that don't resemble towns which also have pillars integrated into them. The azalea skin for the ferns made people frantic trying to farm up broken shells.

 

I've never seen such a scramble for an otherwise useless item, all because of the prospect of people making their worlds fit to their standards of beauty.

 

If people have another reason as to why they've stuck to the game for... Oh, let's say over 2000 hours, why else?

 

To me, what I see more and more are people who build and VERY recently, players have started up markets in their long term servers using docks to fit a theme of a bustling harbour town. Only thing players can't agree on is what currency is. 

 

 

 

 

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I'm bad at animal crossing for the same reason I'm bad at mega basing.  I just don't have the attention and artistic interest for it.  After exploiting turnip pricing to basically access unlimited money in animal crossing my interest was completely lost.  I also don't re-play games that are very same~ish.  Like Celeste was a very fun game, so was CotL but the game started to feel extremely repetitive b/c there is really not that much variance in how to pass most of the levels.

What keeps me coming back to DST is that I can continually start a world from new, and even if I only play that world for 4-6 hours I can accomplish something fun.  I can pick a certain theme and evolve my entire play style around that.  Whether its playing pacifist, boating, rushing boss content, taming a beefs, different characters, auto-farms, tech restrictions, etc there are a LOT of things I can do even in a short amount of time like that - AND - I can just delete it, and do it all again.  I don't have to keep playing the same world over and over again slowly unlocking some meta progression that the world uses to artificially lock content.  Its a much more skill and knowledge based experience where you are free to do what you can do.  The game doesn't artificially gate you behind some grind-wall.  I don't HAVE to do the same things the same ways b/c that is the only way the game lets me b/c its coded around some specific play-loop.

This is why the new "end game" content is so frustrating for me.  Clearing AFW and CC to even get to this stuff takes a long time, and the options get drastically reduced b/c of how combat focused it gets - and not just combat focused, but like scripted fight combat focused - ie you are basically cycling a quick time event with the zombosses - meaning I have to play the same world for a dozen hours AND at the end is a game play loop that basically looks the same no matter who is doing it...  Even character choice stops to matter the way planar is working - and the worst part is as great as the BS and tatters gear LOOK, they all look the same no matter what character I'm on.  I lose all sense of character identity - which sucks b/c I pick a character intending to lean into who they are, so suddenly looking and playing the same as everyone else is quite anticlimactic for me.

The only redeeming thing for me right now are the skill trees.  It feels like Klei is getting some good development across differentiating the characters and introducing new perks that open new path ways to approach the game.  As great as the low-powered DS style characters worked back in the day, at this point - with all this combat focused content - its nice to see skill trees that provide even more options for approaching combat.  I am concerned about power creep, but almost more concerned about characters getting their unique features overly-gated reducing them to Wilson outside of a few niche encounters.

Edited by Shosuko
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1 hour ago, chirsg said:

But at this point, I don't think veterans will be caught by surprise.

You found the problem, but not its source. One of the main themes of the last few updates are things to come after you defeated the main questline (CC/FW), but by the time that you defeated those bosses, you very probably already got spoiled on whats to come after.

Ex.: a little jimmy that after searching for a video on "how to kill hounds" after his first hound wave sees another video on the hotbar "How to prepare to the boss Deerclops at the night of day 30", and gets spoiled on whats to come (both a boss and a new season).

This happens on almost every new update, since we get the both trailer and login screen from the new stuff, and there also is the chance that you may have seen it in the beta subforums.

In my opinion the "best" surprise that I had with the last updates was when Klei had that livestream showing the new bosses before the got dropped into beta.

TLDR: You can get caught by surprise if you don't see all of the content somewhere else before playing it.

1 hour ago, chirsg said:

I cannot possibly speak for every single veteran, not by a long shot and I don't even think I'm an ambassador for players like me, but I find that a lot of dst players including myself, treat this game as an animal crossing where you're able to die.

We build and we lose our minds when a new skin for building makes it into the game.

This partially true, the longer your world goes, the more you decorate it, but the initial decoration can be attributed into clearing up your base, as getting items out of the ground and making separated areas for cooking, building, storing and farming.

but the core survival aspect still is there, as you only start "wasting" resources on decoration after you met your basic needs

1 hour ago, chirsg said:

You'll be hard pressed to find bases that don't resemble towns which also have pillars integrated into them. The azalea skin for the ferns made people frantic trying to farm up broken shells.

I need to show you my base! (you will not be surprised)

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Food / cooking overhaul. 

RWYS is still one of the best updates ever but its incomplete without food rebalance and new crop based dishes. 

I want stuff that shakes up the day-to-day survival in a big way like RWYS. 

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1 minute ago, Ohan said:

Food / cooking overhaul. 

RWYS is still one of the best updates ever but its incomplete without food rebalance and new crop based dishes. 

I want stuff that shakes up the day-to-day survival in a big way like RWYS. 

Call it bias, but I think what the world of food needs in this game might just be an economy. 

There can tend to be a certain pressure to make food production as simple as possible and not convolute it. 

 

The objective of produce and meats in the game is to fill your stomach from 0-150 in the average character and keep it above 0 for as long as possible.
One will not want to take more steps to achieve the same goal. If you can fill your stomach with as little work as possible, you're going to want to do that.

 

I'm not sure adding new dishes will help, because there is a SHEER abundance of ways to make your hunger meter full. Depending on your character, the most efficient way may just be to eat monster meat raw. Wormwood, Webber and even Wigfrid are comfortable doing this. 

 

Another problem is that too many "Interesting" concepts for foods are and will always be locked behind Warly. It's a shame. 


If you had reasons to cook outside of filling your hunger meter and instead influence the world around you, that would go a better way. Economy would be nice. Pigmen and bunnymen would want to exchange dishes and produce for useful items like currency. 

You could offer crockpot dishes to mobs that could either make them hostile, obedient or outright empower them.

 

I don't want to say food is a tricky one, but in my opinion, we don't need another way to fill our hunger meter.

To me, that's like asking to people to pour out their salt shakers into the ocean because the ocean needs more salt. 

 

24 minutes ago, Valase said:

but the core survival aspect still is there, as you only start "wasting" resources on decoration after you met your basic needs

2 hours ago, chirsg said:

Game knowledge. For some, that's day 1 and you can immediately begin to look for materials to start building. I see many autumn 1 bases.

 

 

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1 minute ago, Ohan said:

stuff that shakes up the day-to-day survival in a big way like RWYS

it didn't change anything at all for me personally, i've never done gardening in a solo world because it's slow and boring     

5 minutes ago, Ohan said:

Food / cooking overhaul

i doubt that food will ever end up becoming an issue to get, atm it's very easy to live and kill bosses even without a crockpot, so they'd need to nerf meat and blue shrooms pretty much    

22 minutes ago, Valase said:

This partially true, the longer your world goes, the more you decorate it

that's why i've never had a solo world that went for longer than first year, it gets boring after all the interesting bosses are dead and all you get left to do is wait 15 days for brightshades to spawn and 0-70 more days for deerclops to be possible to summon through hostile flare and kill for it's corpse to get possessed and turned into crystal deerclops on day 91 which is the hard cap for killing all bosses (unless it's possible to activate lunar rifts on day 20 for the first deerclops to turn into crystal deerclops so you need to wait until the night of day 75 to kill bearger)

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Early game variety. Starting a world is very similar no matter what character you're playing world wise, all the variety comes from the player so if someone doesn't necessarily want to constantly think when starting a new world about what exactly they want to do they will get bored, like myself.

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Beating up the horribly designed old combat system makes me see a silver lining in DST's future. I have NEVER been so excited and satisfied since the Forge S2.

Stupid repeated kiting is gone. Garbage summoners Beequeen, The Twins are gone. Total garbage without any fun, Crabking, Moonquay monkeys and Toadstool are gone. Greatest balance breaker of this game's "survival" part, Banana, Stone Fruit and Ocean Trawler are gone. 

No more stupid combat balance to care. No more greatest ocean weapon which can deal damage as high as 68. No more agonizing time longing for Forge skills. No more terribly designed bosses.

All these shall thank to FB, and the absence of the designers of ROT combat contents. 

Destroying old combat system is a sacrifice DST has to make for going forward, because the old combat system is total garbage, and is the worst part of the game.

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46 minutes ago, Fufuji said:

Beating up the horribly designed old combat system makes me see a silver lining in DST's future. I have NEVER been so excited and satisfied since the Forge S2

the problem was not the system, but that either people didn't understand it or they were expecting a combat system focused on dodging from the wrong game

46 minutes ago, Fufuji said:

Stupid repeated kiting is gone

that's mostly about DS bosses and not ANR ones tbh

46 minutes ago, Fufuji said:

Garbage summoners Beequeen

the point was to make the fight a puzzle with a ton of solutions, to this day with new updates people keep discovering new strats (wormwood moon shrooms, wormwood bramble husk, maxwell shadow prison, wendy abigail, bunnymen, willow lunar fire, willow ignite all enemies nearby magic, wigfrid song, winona catapults, pan flutes etc.)

46 minutes ago, Fufuji said:

Total garbage without any fun, Crabking

all CK needs is claw hp reduction and puffins and items shouldn't block boat placement, then he'd be fun despite the gem system thing still not working 

46 minutes ago, Fufuji said:

Toadstool are gone

it was bad admittedly 

46 minutes ago, Fufuji said:

Greatest balance breaker of this game's "survival" part, Banana, Stone Fruit and Ocean Trawler are gone

nah it was extremely easy to survive before those got added, you can very easily survive and kill bosses without interacting with those or even a crockpot        

46 minutes ago, Fufuji said:

Destroying old combat system is a sacrifice DST has to make for going forward, because the old combat system is total garbage, and is the worst part of the game

the new one is even worse because the new bosses are even easier than some of the old ones, if i'd want souls-like combat i'd go play a popular souls-like, most of which have much more complex bosses in comparison to DST bosses, making it pointless to play DST if you want souls-like combat that klei are applying to bosses since celestial champion                                                              

Edited by grm9
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4 minutes ago, grm9 said:

easier

Here's my opinion. The combat part is the weakness of DST, due to the fact that characters are extremely clumsy. To match the characters' insufficient combat agility, mobs must be as clumsy too. This inherent flaw makes that combat should never be hard, that's why I'm all for easy battles.

 

16 minutes ago, grm9 said:

claw hp reduction

He even received a buff on Claws hp when introduced in official release, without any testing.

 

17 minutes ago, grm9 said:

with a ton of solutions

This is what I'm very glad to see.

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3 minutes ago, Fufuji said:

Here's my opinion. The combat part is the weakness of DST, due to the fact that characters are extremely clumsy. To match the characters' insufficient combat agility, mobs must be as clumsy too. This inherent flaw makes that combat should never be hard, that's why I'm all for easy battles.

 

He even received a buff on Claws hp when introduced in official release, without any testing.

 

This is what I'm very glad to see.

Ever since nightmare were pig, all the new enemies and bossesmhave been pretty solid. They found a formula that they should apply to the old ones. 

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I'm satisfied with the general state of the game even if tomorrow all DLC-like content stopped coming in. Yes, still keeping me invested - is a sandbox, I can go at it however I want. Plus mods (consoles don't matter, c'est la vie - DS/T was made for PC). There's no limit to the entertainment it provides. There's also Forge and Gorge mods - especially Forge one with variations and insanely fun difficulty modes. Plenty to write about. Your imagination (or lack of thereof) is the limit with this one, more-so if knowing LUA programming.

I would also point at the whimsical, playful, comedic, satirical side of DST that a lot of people forget nowadays.

Still a late-game more Survival-oriented "hard mode" incorporating certain Hamlet elements (seasonal variations & dangers, global apocalyptic event, economy and advanced mob behavior/AI that still retains the comedic playful aspect) + progression (to certain degrees) would be much appreciated. Rift content looks like a (small) step into that direction - hopefully not abruptly cut in future akin the "Return of Them" arc.

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42 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

They found a formula that they should apply to the old ones. 

Absolutely not, I'd rather fight Bee Queen with how bad her fight is designed compared to whatever the flip they are doing now with these formulaic, boring fights that rely on cheap mechanics like planar or stuns to get you killed, once you learn the fights once there's no real room for strategy or experimentation, you either tick the checkbox for the stunlock on the boss or you don't.

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I think that, now hear me out on this cause it’s going to be very controversial and people aren’t exactly going to be thrilled with this suggestion.. But-

I’ll start by saying that in a game that is slam full of world Gen settings & gameplay toggle choices- That DST has the MOST potential to bend its playstyle to suit the players desires.

If you’re on PC you can probably download a ton of mods to do that, but what about those of us on Xbox, PlayStation & Switch who DON’T have that luxury & are stuck playing the Vanilla game experience.

Klei once asked me why I dislike watching DST Twitch & YouTube streamers: The answer is quite simple- When those streams are filled with Mods, they are Not representative of actual Gameplay.

Now then, back to my point- while mods can massively shake up the gameplay and extend PC players enjoyments of the game, DSTs world Gen setting & gameplay toggles would be the next best thing for Console players.

Imagine if for example we were able to “tweak” the behavior of certain mobs or items in the game, such as Razors not being able to shave Beefalo for their wool if they player toggles that on in world settings.

This one simple change, means you now have to slaughter the Beefalo for its wool.

Now imagine if you could toggle off thermal stones- You’d actually NEED that Wool to survive cold weather.

And finally- Imagine if you could tweak healing so that Foods won’t heal you, you’d have to rely on healing tab items.

While these are all small changes- Small changes add up, and you only need to look at the CURRENT set of game presets, to see that Relaxed Mode & Lights Out Mode are two drastically different gameplay experiences.

My only question left now is- Why hasn’t Klei taken this ball and run a touchdown with it?

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25 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

but what about those of us on Xbox, PlayStation & Switch who DON’T have that luxury & are stuck playing the Vanilla game experience

tbh you could buy a PC that can run DST for less than 100$ i think, idk why would you choose xbox instead of PC, considering it doesn't even have exclusive games which could've been the reason in case of PS or Switch

25 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Imagine if for example we were able to “tweak” the behavior of certain mobs or items in the game, such as Razors not being able to shave Beefalo for their wool if they player toggles that on in world settings

just don't shave them on your own and ask the friends that you're playing with to not do that either 

25 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Now imagine if you could toggle off thermal stones- You’d actually NEED that Wool to survive cold weather

just don't make them and ask your friends to not make them either 

25 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

My only question left now is- Why hasn’t Klei taken this ball and run a touchdown with it?

because it requires spending effort on something that the players themselves can do effortlessly    

25 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

And finally- Imagine if you could tweak healing so that Foods won’t heal you, you’d have to rely on healing tab items

play as wormwood or compensate the healing that you gained from food by eating red shrooms or standing nearby a burning rope and extinguishing it after you take enough damage to fully compensate the healing                                                     

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3 hours ago, Fufuji said:

Here's my opinion. The combat part is the weakness of DST, due to the fact that characters are extremely clumsy. To match the characters' insufficient combat agility, mobs must be as clumsy too. This inherent flaw makes that combat should never be hard, that's why I'm all for easy battles.

This is definitely true.  Combat is not what DS or DST have ever been about.  The world has always been more focused on allowing you to creatively deal with your problems, not suit up and go hambat on them.  People who want more complex battles, or battles focused on the combat often fail to recognize that... this just isn't the game engine to put that in.

For example - rooks can charge any of 360 degrees, but only have 2 sprites to show what angle they are facing.  If you are near other people and a rook charges there is NO WAY to easily know where it is going so you cannot be too harsh if someone fails to dodge.  And that is kinda the pandemic that plagues DST for future content.  The game isn't designed to have complex, specific answers to situations - its designed to just give you a thing, whatever that thing is, and YOU find out how to best it.  Whether that is building walls to hold of lavae, building bunny huts to help with bee queen, or trapping AG on a pillar.  These are the real way to play DST.  Yes combat and dodging are possible, but they are not the basis of the game.

3 hours ago, Jakepeng99 said:

Ever since nightmare were pig, all the new enemies and bossesmhave been pretty solid. They found a formula that they should apply to the old ones. 

They are fun, but they are also quite antithetical to DST.  They turn the game from an exploration and survival game to an rpg.  The fights become extremely repetitive as they are essentially quick time events on loop.  NMWP is dodge 3 times then hold f for a bit.  In stage 2 you gotta get the pillars knocked down, then in stage 3 you go back to stage 1 and maybe he surprises you with a fist pound and catches you off guard... once...

Yes its fun and different from all of the content before - but it is also extremely scripted and one dimensional.  They are only difficult until you learn what you're supposed to do, and then they are easy again. zombosses especially so b/c of how oppressive they are if you don't exploit their "this is how you win" mechanic.

There is very little room to be creative, and to be a non-combat character in that world - hence all of the skill trees now turning *every* character into a combat character.

------------------------------------

Yeah there is a bit of an issue where you've learned the world, your play strategies have become streamlined, and you beat all content - that happens in every game though.  There are people doing naked runs on Dark Souls and Eldenring b/c that is the life of EVERY game.  Its a game.  Its designed to be beaten.  Once you beat it, you beat it.  If you don't enjoy re-playing at that point turn it off and find a different game for a bit, come back when you're ready to experience what it is again.  Don't complain b/c the game doesn't infinitely scale up difficulty to suit your own personal desires, that is just an unreal expectation.

Things like Uncomp mod are great examples of that.  The combat is more scripted - basically walling off many creative solutions - but in the end, you beat it and that's it.  You're back to just playing DST with extra steps enabled...  It really isn't that transformative.

Ya know its really crazy b/c I've played DST for almost 3k hours, I've beaten all the bosses multiple ways from the hard core no-cheese wes to the ultra chees auto kill with catapults - and in the dfly speed run tournament that just ended I STILL saw new tech for how to approach the fight.  People acting like finding a vid on yt lets you beat the game - well first off it does take skill to enact a strategy but also there are MORE strategies to find.  If you don't like doing things the same way, FIND A DIFFERENT WAY TO DO IT.  The problem is YOU not the game.  That's why I feel zombosses, planar, and a lot of these new things are antithetical.  This is Don't Starve Together, not Dark Souls Terraria.

Edited by Shosuko
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48 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

This is definitely true.  Combat is not what DS or DST have ever been about.  The world has always been more focused on allowing you to creatively deal with your problems, not suit up and go hambat on them.  People who want more complex battles, or battles focused on the combat often fail to recognize that... this just isn't the game engine to put that in.

and the age-old answer if anything is coming for us.

To Run, Away!

|

As a generally midlevel player, what keeps me around is to try to do better than i did the last time, as well at seeing where the story goes.

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I don't think raising the game's difficulty is gonna be a solution, it'll end up with the same result and be harsher to new players.

The reason people build such decorated bases is because first of all they enjoy doing so and also they probably already did about everything they could do with the game, so all that's left now is making a base where you try to counter everything the game throws at you to live a probably ok life, that and doing funnies like collecting every boss bauble.

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